BoxRec

BoxBuzz wrote:Haugen, Ward, Gatti, Valero.


To my way of thinkin' these guys are all in the running against each other. But none are elite.

That doesn't mean they wouldn't make for good entertaining matchups.

It wouldn't be a complete surprise to me to see Valero on the short end of all of those matchups.

Haugen was a level above those guys. Gatti, ward or Valero wouldn't be competitive with Camacho or pazienza. Much less beat them.

Valero would get stopped by ward. He and gatti might be special.

BitPlayer wrote: he can overcome 11 inches in height

I don't think Fury is 6'9" as claimed. As an amateur he was said to be 6'7" and photos of him standing next to Wilder and Klit there is little, to no difference, in height.

BitPlayer wrote:

Controversial wrote:Fury is getting way too much credit for one fight. Yes he beat Klitschko but that was more due to Klitschko's lack of punching back and being totally bemused by the way Fury fought. Fury is big but has poor power and has shown poor conditioning in a lot of fights. He was also luck to get the nod over McDermott in their first fight, McDermott a fighter previously KO'd in one round. Mike could take a helluva punch, even on his worst day (vs. Douglas) he soaked up big punches for 10 rounds before dropping so no way Fury had the power to keep Mike off him. The Mike of 1988 vs Fury of 2015 would last about three rounds with Fury being counted out.

Well the McDermott fight is irrelivant because since we're talking Prime Mike, it's only fair to talk about the best Fury. So eh why does Fury need power to keep Mike back, he'd clearly use his excellent movement, and when he did finally get close he'd tie him up and lean all over him.

My point was Fury has looked very average in many fights. He moves well for a big man but nothing he has done suggests to me he was capable of beating Mike. Mike was a powerful body puncher and he would have a lot of body to aim for. The best Fury is the one who beat Klitschko but did he beat the best version of Klitschko?

BoxBuzz wrote:Well, that is one recurring theme in your diatribe, I'll grant you that.

Though you've been known to make exceptions.

But Buster was surely not one of the biggest opponents Mike faced was he?

And I'm not sure Tyson looked that "teeny" to most of his opponents who often found themselves staring up at him, upon awakening.

I've watched the Armstrong films, and I see your error in judgment when it comes to a guy who had a pretty good ability to work inside his opponents most dangerous distance. Doesn't always work, but it's not the worst approach. Or do you think it is the worst approach?

Your vigilant and vigorous championing of Valero is a hoot. But it's what makes you stand out in a crowd. I appreciate diversity in every way. So don't ever change.

You're a simpleton BuzzBox... The reason Armstrong had such an average record after 27 fights of fighting bums is because he led with his face and got punched in it a lot... On the other hand Valero was 27-0 with 27 KO wins after 27 fights and beat World Champions... Valero had to protect a massively deep cut from a elbow strike versus Tony DeMarco.. It was bleeding furiously and his corner wanted to stop it, which they could have won a technical decision on the foul.. Valero got angry with them because he wanted to preserve his perfect KO record.. He boxed like a Master protecting the injury, and made DeMarco quit.. Pretty impressive when you consider some of the dogs who beat Armstrong, despite getting away with low blows, head butts, pushing, shoving, and shouldering opponents, and getting disqualified in fights.

Douglas WAS one of the biggest opponents Tyson ever faced... but he was ALSO one of the most skilled and fastest opponents Tyson ever faced.

The guys staring up at Tyson were teenier than Tyson ... OR old men or horrible boxers... skilled guys like Lewis, Holyfield, and Douglas didn't do that.

And was Armstrong's game the worst approach??? It worked for him because he had friendly referees... who often didn't DQ him for fouling.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Valero was smashed to the canvas by the feather fisted mosquera and Valero was a quitter. Greg Haugen would have smashed Edwin.

You're a damned liar... MOST of Vicente Mosquera's wins were delivered by KO. He could box and punch... He was 24-1-1 when he was dropped twice and dominated by Edwin Valero before getting knocked out.. He dropped Valero for a flash knockdown in what was the only knockdown of Valero's career.. Tony Galento floored Joe Louis.. Third rate Henry Cooper floored Ali and almost knocked him out.. Mosquero was a World Champion and finished his career 33-3-1... The only time Mosquera was ever stopped came at the fists of Valero...

You're not a quitter when you're almost killed in a motorcycle accident, your skull is shattered, and you need extensive brain surgery... and doctors tell you to give up boxing because of extensive damage to your head and brain -- but you go on to an undefeated boxing career winning 2 World Championships as becoming a 2-Division World Champion, winning all of your 27 fights by KO.

Most of Greg Haugen's wins came by decision... He lost 10 times and was knocked out 3 times... He was not considered a real good boxer or puncher

Kalan wrote:

Douglas WAS one of the biggest opponents Tyson ever faced...

The guys staring up at Tyson were teenier than Tyson ...
.

Guys just as big, or bigger than Douglas that Tyson faced....it's a long list.

Holmes, Bruno, Tubbs, Biggs, Smith, Green, Jameson, Ruddock, Botha, Francis, Savarese, Golata, Nielson.

There's More, so I think maybe your assessment team sent you the wrong info. Fire them, get some new lackeys, and you'll be right as rain next time.

golden oldie wrote:

BitPlayer wrote:

golden oldie wrote:
Now you see why I believe that perhaps your mother is in fact your sister. Only someone inbred could have the reading skills of a retard. At NO TIME did I claim Robinson would beat Patterson in 1958. I said by 1958 SRR was too OLD to be competitive with even a small Heavy like Patterson. In fact I merely agreed with thew poster who wrote Patterson would be too big, too strong and TOO YOUNG in 58

I DID however state categorically that Patterson NEVER possessed the skills of a prime Robinson. But don't let a little thing like that stop you spewing out yet more garbage from your retarded perspective on life.

You can argue with the FACTS and STATS all you like,. it will make not a jot of difference. Tyson DID beat guys with at least 7 inches on him in height, and at least 6 inches on him in reach. The fact you either don't like that, or are in denial of it is like you. Irrelevant.

It would be complimenting you to label you a troll, they have far more intelligence, as do amoebas.

So because he can overcome 7 inches in height and 6 in reach he can overcome 11 inches in height, 14 inches in reach and atleast 20Ibs?

Flatout terrible argument.

Well I'm really glad you pointed that out to me, because I have been puzzled as to how David Haye ( who would have been lucky to last a round with prime Tyson ) managed to give away 9 inches in height 8 inches in reach and ONE HUNDRED pounds, never mind a poxy 20 pounds in weight, and still beat a guy with a record of 50 - 1 - 0, in only his 4th attempt fighting at Heavyweight ?

Because Valuev was borderline disabled.

Controversial wrote:

BitPlayer wrote: he can overcome 11 inches in height

I don't think Fury is 6'9" as claimed. As an amateur he was said to be 6'7" and photos of him standing next to Wilder and Klit there is little, to no difference, in height.

That's a fair point, though I still think he lookd taller than wilder, he turned pro at 20, him putting on an inch or two since then is that unplausable. I thought he definitely looked bigger than both, once Wlad took off his high heels anyway.

Here's Fury against someone the same height and heavier than the giants Mike Tyson beat.

Even haunched over Fury is taller, and clearly carrying a lot more weight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hllzMpsF_ZU

BitPlayer wrote:

Controversial wrote:

BitPlayer wrote: he can overcome 11 inches in height

I don't think Fury is 6'9" as claimed. As an amateur he was said to be 6'7" and photos of him standing next to Wilder and Klit there is little, to no difference, in height.

That's a fair point, though I still think he lookd taller than wilder, he turned pro at 20, him putting on an inch or two since then is that unplausable. I thought he definitely looked bigger than both, once Wlad took off his high heels anyway.

Nah he's 6'7" at most, Klit is recorded as being 6'6" (sometimes recorded a tad over 6'5) no way is Fury 3"-4" taller than him. Tony Thompson is 6'5" and he looked the same height as Klit when they faced off yet David Price is 6'8" and he was noticeably taller than Thompson.

Tyson fury would present problems due to his height and movement, but mike was very fast and accurate. Its hard to imagine TF landing too many of his slow punches, while MT would be able to land to the body at least.
I could picture it like the bonecrusher and tucker fights where the scared, tall fighter, runs to a decision loss.

golden oldie wrote:

BitPlayer wrote:

golden oldie wrote:
Well I'm really glad you pointed that out to me, because I have been puzzled as to how David Haye ( who would have been lucky to last a round with prime Tyson ) managed to give away 9 inches in height 8 inches in reach and ONE HUNDRED pounds, never mind a poxy 20 pounds in weight, and still beat a guy with a record of 50 - 1 - 0, in only his 4th attempt fighting at Heavyweight ?

Because Valuev was borderline disabled.

Yeah right, and beating 39 year old Klitchko makes Fury some kind of Fred Astaire does it?

As a previous poster wrote. As soon as prime Tyson finds Fury's chin ( which I would estimate at somewhere between 90, and 120 seconds ) it's tiiiiiiiimmmmmmmbeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrr.

No but his excellent movement means he hs excellent movement.

Valuev had to retire pretty much right after the Haye fight, and Haye still barely beat him.

Valuev later needed two surgeries for "serious bone and joint problems"

Tyson Fury on the other hand.
https://gfycat.com/AggressiveOldfashion ... alaboriosa

Valuev had a lot of height, though not really any mmore reach than Fury, however he just couldn't use it as effectively.

Tyson was too small and wide open to ever find Fury's chin... Odd's makers never took into consideration Tyson's lack of boxing ability before the Buster Douglas fight... Douglas watched as Tony Tucker easily absorbed Mike best punches.. Tucker was 6'5" X 223.. That's big but not huge.. Tucker couldn't box at all and Tyson couldn't hurt him because his punches just bounced off of Tucker's chin. Herbie Hide easily knocked Tony Tucker out in 2 rounds. And Hide was knocked out by Vitali Klitschko in 2 rounds because he was chinny as all get out -- but somehow Tucker could take everything Mike Tyson dished out without even blinking. Mike Tyson also failed o KO Quick Tillis after Tim Witherspoon and Greg Page trashed Tillis to death and stopped him.

The funny thing to me is how Buster Douglas got knocked out by 2nd raters David Bey and Mike White in earlier fights, but could absorb everything Mike Tyson could throw.. After all Evander Holyfield knocked Buster Douglas out with 1 shot (and Evander knocked Mike Tyson out too of course) but Iron Mike got run over by the bigger, stronger Douglas. Poor Mike. He couldn't seem to avoid shots from a much taller guy who could box. Fury can box.

Odds makers opened Wladimir Klitschko as a 4-1 favorite to beat Fury... Wladimir was undefeated for over 11 years and he couldn't land a decent punch on Fury all night... and when he tried to grab he got himself in trouble... He couldn't tie up the super big and tall Fury---who was 3" taller than the 6'6" WK... He was a guy who had a much longer and more dominant reign as Heavyweight Champion than Mike Tyson -- and Fury beat him silly.

BitPlayer wrote:

golden oldie wrote:

BitPlayer wrote: So because he can overcome 7 inches in height and 6 in reach he can overcome 11 inches in height, 14 inches in reach and atleast 20Ibs?

Flatout terrible argument.

Well I'm really glad you pointed that out to me, because I have been puzzled as to how David Haye ( who would have been lucky to last a round with prime Tyson ) managed to give away 9 inches in height 8 inches in reach and ONE HUNDRED pounds, never mind a poxy 20 pounds in weight, and still beat a guy with a record of 50 - 1 - 0, in only his 4th attempt fighting at Heavyweight ?

Because Valuev was borderline disabled.

He'd be 50/50 with fury. Better than anyone vitali ever beat.

golden oldie wrote:

BitPlayer wrote:

golden oldie wrote:
Yeah right, and beating 39 year old Klitchko makes Fury some kind of Fred Astaire does it?

As a previous poster wrote. As soon as prime Tyson finds Fury's chin ( which I would estimate at somewhere between 90, and 120 seconds ) it's tiiiiiiiimmmmmmmbeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrr.

No but his excellent movement means he hs excellent movement.

Valuev had to retire pretty much right after the Haye fight, and Haye still barely beat him.

Valuev later needed two surgeries for "serious bone and joint problems"

Tyson Fury on the other hand.
https://gfycat.com/AggressiveOldfashion ... alaboriosa

Valuev had a lot of height, though not really any mmore reach than Fury, however he just couldn't use it as effectively.

And you " seriously " believe that clip of Fury dancing around a fat chump, equates to him being able to do the same to a prime Tyson?

Ffs the weed I get must be shite in comparison to what you smoke.

Find a clip of Valuev in his 30's movign half that well.

golden oldie wrote:

BitPlayer wrote: Find a clip of Valuev in his 30's movign half that well.

Valuev has less than ferk all to do with Tyson being able to dispense with a chump like Fury in quick time. Other than your pathetic attempt to claim that Fury is " HUUUUUGGGGEEEE " and therefore insurmountable, when he isn't. The similarity to that is Haye beating the much bigger, much heavier than Fury, ( but just as fukkin useless ) Valuev.

Out of interest which one of those 2 lumps of lard is supposed to be over 30? Fury, or the other idiot?

Pathetic.

golden oldie wrote:

BitPlayer wrote: So because he can overcome 7 inches in height and 6 in reach he can overcome 11 inches in height, 14 inches in reach and atleast 20Ibs?

Flatout terrible argument.

Well I'm really glad you pointed that out to me, because I have been puzzled as to how David Haye ( who would have been lucky to last a round with prime Tyson ) managed to give away 9 inches in height 8 inches in reach and ONE HUNDRED pounds, never mind a poxy 20 pounds in weight, and still beat a guy with a record of 50 - 1 - 0, in only his 4th attempt fighting at Heavyweight ?

BTW over 30 was a reference to the age Valuev was when he got beat just so you didn't post a video of him being more mobile when he was much younger than when he lost the fight.

Nobody can dispute that fury moves well for his size. The laughable thing about fury is when people pretend hes a defensive wizard because wlad didn't punch. He fought very intelligently and took away wlads holding. I loved it, he exposed a fraudulent"great".

golden oldie wrote:Look kid, you want to convince yourself Fury is the greatest thing since Ali, crack on. Just don't be surprised when you find you are in a minority of ONE.

Tyson in his element disposes of the fool in a round, 2 at most. He doesn't even possess the intelligence to hang on for dear life like a Bonecrusher Smith. He would just try to back off and pick and poke, giving Tyson even MORE confidence to go for the kill. If there was one thing the rapist loved it was guys that showed FEAR.

When did I claim he is?

Mike Tyson just isn't the best since Ali.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

BitPlayer wrote:

golden oldie wrote:
Well I'm really glad you pointed that out to me, because I have been puzzled as to how David Haye ( who would have been lucky to last a round with prime Tyson ) managed to give away 9 inches in height 8 inches in reach and ONE HUNDRED pounds, never mind a poxy 20 pounds in weight, and still beat a guy with a record of 50 - 1 - 0, in only his 4th attempt fighting at Heavyweight ?

Because Valuev was borderline disabled.

He'd be 50/50 with fury. Better than anyone vitali ever beat.

Haye pulled out of a fight with Vitali to fight Valuev... He pulled out of Wladimir fights twice before he fought him... and got dominated.

Valuev was a ridiculously bad boxer. All he had was size like Willard.. To compare Valuev with Fury is like comparing Manute Bol with Wilt Chamberlain.. Bol was a much better athlete than Valuev of course---but he rode the bench a lot and could never bring his game up.. It's ridiculous to talk about Heavyweights in terms of size if they're devoid of 50 other athletic qualities and raw intelligence.

golden oldie wrote:

BitPlayer wrote:

golden oldie wrote:Look kid, you want to convince yourself Fury is the greatest thing since Ali, crack on. Just don't be surprised when you find you are in a minority of ONE.

Tyson in his element disposes of the fool in a round, 2 at most. He doesn't even possess the intelligence to hang on for dear life like a Bonecrusher Smith. He would just try to back off and pick and poke, giving Tyson even MORE confidence to go for the kill. If there was one thing the rapist loved it was guys that showed FEAR.

When did I claim he is?

Mike Tyson just isn't the best since Ali.

Ferkin hell. You have finally managed to get " something " right.

Ali slaughters Tyson just like Douglas and Holy did, because he takes the fight right to him. If Fury was reincarnated 100 times he still couldn't fukkin do that.



Geddit?

So because that's how they did it that literally the only gameplan that could be effective?

Sure makes 100% sense.

golden oldie wrote:

BitPlayer wrote:

golden oldie wrote:
Ferkin hell. You have finally managed to get " something " right.

Ali slaughters Tyson just like Douglas and Holy did, because he takes the fight right to him. If Fury was reincarnated 100 times he still couldn't fukkin do that.



Geddit?

So because that's how they do it that literally the only gameplan that could be effective?

Sure makes 100% sense.

So you think it is sheer coincidence that the guys who destroyed the myth of Tyson took the fight straight to him, as opposed to trying to back off and steal points?

Told you, stick to kiddies comic books. You are far more suited to that kind of thing. Real life seems to confuse you.

Neither of them was Tysn Fury. The best strategy for one is not the others.