BoxRec

It is ridiculous to compare Loma to Floyd at 130. Floyd is a much bigger man and he had a much better pop at 130.

Tony1244 wrote:Max Kellerman is right here. Loma is pretty damn great.

Except for the part about him throwing more punches than Whitaker.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Tony1244 wrote:Max Kellerman is right here. Loma is pretty damn great.

Except for the part about him throwing more punches than Whitaker.

Would be an interesting study. They are both pretty darn active.

Impractical Poster wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Tony1244 wrote:Max Kellerman is right here. Loma is pretty damn great.

Except for the part about him throwing more punches than Whitaker.

Would be an interesting study. They are both pretty darn active.

It was years ago, but at the time Whitaker had like 4 of the top 10 most punches landed in HBO history. I believe he had over 400 in a few fights. Amazing body puncher.

Just did a really quick average based off of only one fight (not extremely telling I know). But this is what I got.

Average punches per round for Loma against Walters = 63.4
Average punches per round for Whitaker vs Chavez = 65.8

Yeah, Whitaker was a busy man.

I believe that was on low side for Whitaker as well. I believe I read somewhere that he was usually around 80 or so per round.

Yeah, he was past his best then. Haugen and pineda were two I bet had high output.

Actually pineda was 321/787 so that's not much different.

boxing_rocks wrote:Top four p4p fighters in the world right now (in arbitrary order) are Gonzalez, Lomachenko, Crawford and Golovkin.

Maybe you didn't see Chocolatito's last 2 fights.. His jab fell way down and so did his defense.. He looked well beaten up in his last fight---not as bad as Ward, but he was fighting fairly unknown opponents while Ward was fighting one of the best in the world.

I would put Lomachenko at number 1 -- way out in front of anybody else... Golovkin at number 2... Crawford at number 3... Kovalev at number 4... Usyk at number 5... Ortiz at 6... Joshua at 7... Spence at 8... Ward at 9... Chocolatito at 10... That's without a lot of calculation, but I think that's close ... My sense is that Keith Thurman is a top 10 fighter if he takes care of Garcia the way I think he will.

Kalan wrote:

boxing_rocks wrote:Top four p4p fighters in the world right now (in arbitrary order) are Gonzalez, Lomachenko, Crawford and Golovkin.

Maybe you didn't see Chocolatito's last 2 fights.. His jab fell way down and so did his defense.. He looked well beaten up in his last fight---not as bad as Ward, but he was fighting fairly unknown opponents while Ward was fighting one of the best in the world.

I would put Lomachenko at number 1 -- way out in front of anybody else... Golovkin at number 2... Crawford at number 3... Kovalev at number 4... Usyk at number 5... Ortiz at 6... Joshua at 7... Spence at 8... Ward at 9... Chocolatito at 10. That's without a lot of calculation, but I think that's close ... My sense is that Keith Thurman is a top 10 fighter if he takes care of Garcia the way I think he will.

Roman just jumped to a weight which may be too much for him. Lomachenko at 140 or Crawford at 154 may have problems too.

Impractical Poster wrote:Just did a really quick average based off of only one fight (not extremely telling I know). But this is what I got.

Average punches per round for Loma against Walters = 63.4
Average punches per round for Whitaker vs Chavez = 65.8

Yeah, Whitaker was a busy man.

I believe that was on low side for Whitaker as well. I believe I read somewhere that he was usually around 80 or so per round.

Vasyl average could be higher, if he had more rounds with Walters. Lomachenko turned on his turbo just in the second half of the fight, that's why jamaican warrior escaped.

Kalan wrote:

boxing_rocks wrote:Top four p4p fighters in the world right now (in arbitrary order) are Gonzalez, Lomachenko, Crawford and Golovkin.

Maybe you didn't see Chocolatito's last 2 fights.. His jab fell way down and so did his defense.. He looked well beaten up in his last fight---not as bad as Ward, but he was fighting fairly unknown opponents while Ward was fighting one of the best in the world.

I would put Lomachenko at number 1 -- way out in front of anybody else... Golovkin at number 2... Crawford at number 3... Kovalev at number 4... Usyk at number 5... Ortiz at 6... Joshua at 7... Spence at 8... Ward at 9... Chocolatito at 10... That's without a lot of calculation, but I think that's close ... My sense is that Keith Thurman is a top 10 fighter if he takes care of Garcia the way I think he will.

Intresting list.
I love Usyk, but I think he needs 1-2 big opponents to be so high. I'm sure he will.

Counter-puncher wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:

Baby Face Finster wrote:That's right, we just saw the best fighter in the world...better than Triple G, better than Ward, better than Gonzalez, better than Rigondull...better than anyone else. He just took apart a very dangerous fighter and made it look easy.

Ridiculous. The guy's had 8 fights and he's already got a loss on his record. You people make me laugh. He legitimately got beaten by an older boxer in Salido but you all just want to rush to crown him because he beat a fighter last night that has been idle for over a year and has ZERO heart.

GGG is undefeated and no one can even make it to the final bell but you wan to award it to this punk who's gotten everything handed to him on a silver platter. He gets 3 title fights handed to him in his first 7 fights. Go screw, the lot of you. You are all ridiculous.

Lol why so butthurt bro? Gettin a little emotional there partner, take a cold dip or something.

Fwiw I wouldn't have Lomachenko ahead of GGG just yet, and I'm not sure he wont suffer the exact same problem GGG has with a lack of credible dance partners.

Not butthurt, just another ridiculous comment on this site of many that i chose to respond to for some odd reason. He's clearly trolling here.

Kalan wrote:

boxing_rocks wrote:Top four p4p fighters in the world right now (in arbitrary order) are Gonzalez, Lomachenko, Crawford and Golovkin.

Maybe you didn't see Chocolatito's last 2 fights.. His jab fell way down and so did his defense.. He looked well beaten up in his last fight---not as bad as Ward, but he was fighting fairly unknown opponents while Ward was fighting one of the best in the world.

I would put Lomachenko at number 1 -- way out in front of anybody else... Golovkin at number 2... Crawford at number 3... Kovalev at number 4... Usyk at number 5... Ortiz at 6... Joshua at 7... Spence at 8... Ward at 9... Chocolatito at 10... That's without a lot of calculation, but I think that's close ... My sense is that Keith Thurman is a top 10 fighter if he takes care of Garcia the way I think he will.

I like your list but King Kong Ortiz? He's in his mid to late 60's, possibly even 70. He's shot. Without peds he's done.

caldo2025 wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:
Ridiculous. The guy's had 8 fights and he's already got a loss on his record. You people make me laugh. He legitimately got beaten by an older boxer in Salido but you all just want to rush to crown him because he beat a fighter last night that has been idle for over a year and has ZERO heart.

GGG is undefeated and no one can even make it to the final bell but you wan to award it to this punk who's gotten everything handed to him on a silver platter. He gets 3 title fights handed to him in his first 7 fights. Go screw, the lot of you. You are all ridiculous.

Lol why so butthurt bro? Gettin a little emotional there partner, take a cold dip or something.

Fwiw I wouldn't have Lomachenko ahead of GGG just yet, and I'm not sure he wont suffer the exact same problem GGG has with a lack of credible dance partners.

Not butthurt, just another ridiculous comment on this site of many that i chose to respond to for some odd reason. He's clearly trolling here.

I'm not trolling. I use the eye test to decide who the best boxer is and Lomachenko clearly looks like the #1 P4P boxer in the world to me. There isn't a single other boxer atm who does the things he does offensively and defensively. I issued the same declaration about Triple G after his fight with Proksa even though he hadn't faced anyone elite at that point.

Kalan wrote:

boxing_rocks wrote:Top four p4p fighters in the world right now (in arbitrary order) are Gonzalez, Lomachenko, Crawford and Golovkin.

Maybe you didn't see Chocolatito's last 2 fights.. His jab fell way down and so did his defense.. He looked well beaten up in his last fight---not as bad as Ward, but he was fighting fairly unknown opponents while Ward was fighting one of the best in the world.

I would put Lomachenko at number 1 -- way out in front of anybody else... Golovkin at number 2... Crawford at number 3... Kovalev at number 4... Usyk at number 5... Ortiz at 6... Joshua at 7... Spence at 8... Ward at 9... Chocolatito at 10... That's without a lot of calculation, but I think that's close ... My sense is that Keith Thurman is a top 10 fighter if he takes care of Garcia the way I think he will.

Lol that's all I can say

Gonzalez fighting fairly Unknown opposition?? Cuadras.. only the hardest fight at the weight pretty much



thanks for the laugh it's nice to see a sense of humour on these forums

Baby Face Finster wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:
Lol why so butthurt bro? Gettin a little emotional there partner, take a cold dip or something.

Fwiw I wouldn't have Lomachenko ahead of GGG just yet, and I'm not sure he wont suffer the exact same problem GGG has with a lack of credible dance partners.

Not butthurt, just another ridiculous comment on this site of many that i chose to respond to for some odd reason. He's clearly trolling here.

I'm not trolling. I use the eye test to decide who the best boxer is and Lomachenko clearly looks like the #1 P4P boxer in the world to me. There isn't a single other boxer atm who does the things he does offensively and defensively. I issued the same declaration about Triple G after his fight with Proksa even though he hadn't faced anyone elite at that point.

I agree. It's obvious when you watch him do what he does against the fighters he's done it to that he is something special.

The first time I saw Floyd was his fight against Tony Pep. I believe it was on USA nearly 20 years ago. He had not even fought for a title yet. I knew right then that I was witnessing something special. And, for me, it is a little more so with Lomachenko.

Counter-puncher wrote: I'm not sure he wont suffer the exact same problem GGG has with a lack of credible dance partners.

The same way as GGG, Loma is head and shoulders above anybody in his weight class. Even if he is not stopping everybody, he profoundly humiliates them having them hit air and being hit with beautiful combinations.

The same way as with GGG, haters will want him to face much bigger guys like Pac or Crawford.

boxing_rocks wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote: I'm not sure he wont suffer the exact same problem GGG has with a lack of credible dance partners.

The same way as GGG, Loma is head and shoulders above anybody in his weight class. Even if he is not stopping everybody, he profoundly humiliates them having them hit air and being hit with beautiful combinations.

The same way as with GGG, haters will want him to face much bigger guys like Pac or Crawford.

you right. but guys like rances or verdejo would be great fights and certainly no easy fights for vasyl. surely not rances, dude is like 5'11 with a reach similar to a middleweight boxer. would be interresting to see how vasyl manages an opponent of this size, still vasyl would be my favourite. his coordination and footspeed is just on another level and rances will have nightmares catching him and eat combos

davie wrote:The guy's a phenomenon, technically brilliant and probably the most talented fighter out there.

But in terms of topping the p4p list, if all things were equal and everyone was the same weight and height, could Rigo run rings round him on the outside? Could GGG walk through his shots, cut off the ring and punch holes in him? Could Ward pot shot, rough him up on the inside and take a decision? Could Kovalev find him with the one right hand needed to put him down? Could Chocolatito pressure him for the 12 and wear him down.

I don't know the answers to these questions. The eye test tells me these guys would struggle to lay a glove on him. But we really need to see him in with a better level of opposition.

I do struggle to make an argument for anyone being a better fighter than Lomachenko though, however I get the feeling there is a style of fighter out there that could solve this puzzle.

Then again, I spent a decade saying the same about Floyd

You know, I once considered Floyd the fighter best ever with no question.. But I don't any more.. The Andre Berto fight turned me off completely. When you skip over undefeated Welterweights like Keith Thurman and Kell Brook, who are really top-notch boxer-punchers, to fight a dog like Berto---who lost 3 of his previous 6 while getting knocked down 6 times and knocked out---something is wrong. I was always a fan of Pacquiao and Bradley too, until they refused to fight the top Welterweights. There's been NO transition at ALL at 147 -- Floyd, Pacquiao, Khan, Bradley, and Maidana never once fought Thurman, Spence, Brook or Porter because they knew they'd get trashed.. And then Pacquiao refusing to fight Crawford.. I'm sick of it.

I felt like Lomachenko was going to get robbed versus Salido. I didn't like the selection of judges or the referee for that fight. Then for Lomachenko-Russell we had Lisa Giampa as a judge and I just laughed. The only reason she got a cush judge job is her father is a judge -- lIke Julie Lederman. Referees also make a big difference too. like Lou Moret allowing Guerrero to foul Berto with impunity and never taking a point no matter how ridiculous it got. There were forces who wanted Guerrero to win. He was being set up as Floyd's next opponent. Thurman won every round from Guerrero and put him down for a 9-count. But RG head butted Thurman severely and I got the sense Kenny Bayless was doing everything possible to help Guerrero. I don't think Floyd wanted to fight Thurman. Kovalev was the World Champion, so do you think he could have gotten a fight in Russia with 3 Russian judges and a Russian referee??? That would never fly, but the political maneuvering in Boxing is mind boggling. Politics for me is another word for corruption.

I take politics into consideration when I judge fighters on a historical basis.. Mayweather struggled with an unskilled brawler like Maidana---who lost to Khan, Alexander, and others boxers who weren't very good.. I didn't want any rematch, but I knew it would be Kenny Bayless refereeing.. And Floyd was sparring with Errol Spence and pretty much got the snot knocked out of him.. I don't think Floyd could beat the new guys.

Lomachenko dominated 24-0 Gary Russell, who i consider the best Featherweight in the world by far---in only his 3rd fight. Now they don't want Russell to do well---because that would make Loma look good.. Gary has been able to land only 1 fight this year and 1 fight last year.. He can's get a Santa Cruz, Frampton, or Selby fight to save his life. And take Golovkin. He's never been able to land a fight with a top Middleweights for the last 6 years, starting with Martinez. It's like pulling teeth for the most dangerous fighters in Boxing to get the fights they deserve.

Baby Face Finster wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:
Lol why so butthurt bro? Gettin a little emotional there partner, take a cold dip or something.

Fwiw I wouldn't have Lomachenko ahead of GGG just yet, and I'm not sure he wont suffer the exact same problem GGG has with a lack of credible dance partners.

Not butthurt, just another ridiculous comment on this site of many that i chose to respond to for some odd reason. He's clearly trolling here.

I'm not trolling. I use the eye test to decide who the best boxer is and Lomachenko clearly looks like the #1 P4P boxer in the world to me. There isn't a single other boxer atm who does the things he does offensively and defensively. I issued the same declaration about Triple G after his fight with Proksa even though he hadn't faced anyone elite at that point.

So the greatest boxer in the world just lost 2 years ago. Too soon. TOO SOON. Don't give me that #1 P4P shat when your boy can't even beat an old man in Salido. I've got stuff still in my fridge from two years ago so don't be telling me this....Too Soon. I agree, the kid is fantastic but why we go out of our way to crown people before their time. Now it's a race to hit the buzzer first. Let's appreciate the people that have already put the work in and proved that no one can beat them. Don't forget something that just happened a few fights ago. The boy lost to someone not even a blip on the P4P radar. So just remember that before you go to the printpress with your Loma shirt ideas.

caldo2025 wrote:

Baby Face Finster wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:
Not butthurt, just another ridiculous comment on this site of many that i chose to respond to for some odd reason. He's clearly trolling here.

I'm not trolling. I use the eye test to decide who the best boxer is and Lomachenko clearly looks like the #1 P4P boxer in the world to me. There isn't a single other boxer atm who does the things he does offensively and defensively. I issued the same declaration about Triple G after his fight with Proksa even though he hadn't faced anyone elite at that point.

So the greatest boxer in the world just lost 2 years ago. Too soon. TOO SOON. Don't give me that #1 P4P shat when your boy can't even beat an old man in Salido. I've got stuff still in my fridge from two years ago so don't be telling me this....Too Soon. I agree, the kid is fantastic but why we go out of our way to crown people before their time. Now it's a race to hit the buzzer first. Let's appreciate the people that have already put the work in and proved that no one can beat them. Don't forget something that just happened a few fights ago. The boy lost to someone not even a blip on the P4P radar. So just remember that before you go to the printpress with your Loma shirt ideas.

salido came in as a welterweight. unfair fight. imagine maidana totaly ignoring 147 weight limit and coming into the fight against floyd with a super middleweight weight, he would have a mayor increase of punching power and totaly rough up floyd, simply unfair. weight limits are made for a reason.

Impractical Poster wrote:

Baby Face Finster wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:
Not butthurt, just another ridiculous comment on this site of many that i chose to respond to for some odd reason. He's clearly trolling here.

I'm not trolling. I use the eye test to decide who the best boxer is and Lomachenko clearly looks like the #1 P4P boxer in the world to me. There isn't a single other boxer atm who does the things he does offensively and defensively. I issued the same declaration about Triple G after his fight with Proksa even though he hadn't faced anyone elite at that point.

I agree. It's obvious when you watch him do what he does against the fighters he's done it to that he is something special.

The first time I saw Floyd was his fight against Tony Pep. I believe it was on USA nearly 20 years ago. He had not even fought for a title yet. I knew right then that I was witnessing something special. And, for me, it is a little more so with Lomachenko.

Anyone who can't see Lomachenko is a very special fighter must have shite in their eye.

Jip wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:

Baby Face Finster wrote:
I'm not trolling. I use the eye test to decide who the best boxer is and Lomachenko clearly looks like the #1 P4P boxer in the world to me. There isn't a single other boxer atm who does the things he does offensively and defensively. I issued the same declaration about Triple G after his fight with Proksa even though he hadn't faced anyone elite at that point.

So the greatest boxer in the world just lost 2 years ago. Too soon. TOO SOON. Don't give me that #1 P4P shat when your boy can't even beat an old man in Salido. I've got stuff still in my fridge from two years ago so don't be telling me this....Too Soon. I agree, the kid is fantastic but why we go out of our way to crown people before their time. Now it's a race to hit the buzzer first. Let's appreciate the people that have already put the work in and proved that no one can beat them. Don't forget something that just happened a few fights ago. The boy lost to someone not even a blip on the P4P radar. So just remember that before you go to the printpress with your Loma shirt ideas.

salido came in as a welterweight. unfair fight. imagine maidana totaly ignoring 147 weight limit and coming into the fight against floyd with a super middleweight weight, he would have a mayor increase of punching power and totaly rough up floyd, simply unfair. weight limits are made for a reason.

Let's continue to make excuses for him. A loss is a loss. Lomachenko clearly lost the fight. #1 P4P should be able to beat a 34 year old fighter a few pounds heavier on the scale. Point in case.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote:

Baby Face Finster wrote:
I'm not trolling. I use the eye test to decide who the best boxer is and Lomachenko clearly looks like the #1 P4P boxer in the world to me. There isn't a single other boxer atm who does the things he does offensively and defensively. I issued the same declaration about Triple G after his fight with Proksa even though he hadn't faced anyone elite at that point.

I agree. It's obvious when you watch him do what he does against the fighters he's done it to that he is something special.

The first time I saw Floyd was his fight against Tony Pep. I believe it was on USA nearly 20 years ago. He had not even fought for a title yet. I knew right then that I was witnessing something special. And, for me, it is a little more so with Lomachenko.

Anyone who can't see Lomachenko is a very special fighter must have shite in their eye.

Who's saying that he's not special? He's fantastic. But I prefer for a boxer to have a little more than 8 pro fights before crowning him the best P4P. Call me crazy... 7-1. LOL. Yeah, let's just hand it over to him. Just like they handed him two title shots in his first 3 pro fights. Give me a break.

caldo2025 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote: I agree. It's obvious when you watch him do what he does against the fighters he's done it to that he is something special.

The first time I saw Floyd was his fight against Tony Pep. I believe it was on USA nearly 20 years ago. He had not even fought for a title yet. I knew right then that I was witnessing something special. And, for me, it is a little more so with Lomachenko.

Anyone who can't see Lomachenko is a very special fighter must have shite in their eye.

Who's saying that he's not special? He's fantastic. But I prefer for a boxer to have a little more than 8 pro fights before crowning him the best P4P. Call me crazy... 7-1. LOL. Yeah, let's just hand it over to him. Just like they handed him two title shots in his first 3 pro fights. Give me a break.

I totally agree.