BoxRec

gilgamesh wrote: ↑06 Apr 2018, 19:51

jamamb wrote: ↑06 Apr 2018, 19:49 actually look at the rankings though, why are transnationals better? not influenced by corruption, etc, is not an argument based on the actual rankings. there not influenced by politics yet have had nate gallimore as the #4 jmw in the world, so what if he beat deloach, thats nothing close to earning anyone a #4 spot in the world.

they have other odd ratings quirks too, not saying any rankings perfect, but theres this whole attitude that there somehow easily the best and most untainted, yet looking at the actual rankings i dont see it.

To each their own I suppose. I think they have more integrity in how they're put together than most any other rankings system.

I'm not sure how many people are involved in the actual rankings. I know one of them though, and he follows Boxing as closely as anybody I've ever seen in my f*cking life. I don't know when the guy even sleeps. He knows EVERY fighter. It's ridiculous.

Someone on the website actually asked the same question on Gallimore, it is as follow:

[/DeLoach was at #6, stopped by Gallimore, who was proposed to take his #6 spot. He may well have “exposed” DeLoach, but such a decisive win is hard to overlook. How did DeLoach get to #6 would be the real question here. He got in at #9 at the end of Feb 2017 after whipping his fourth straight prospect; and he was an underdog in three of them, including against 14-1 Christopher Pearson, who he knocked out in one round. Dillon Cook was 16-0, Junior Castillo (10-0), and Dominque Dolton (17-0-1) preceded Pearson. We figured he should go in over Julian Williams who was KO’d by a Charlo his last time out. In May, Trout and Martirosyan exited due to inactivity and he advanced by attrition to #7. Jermall Charlo left the division the same week that Gallimore beat DeLoach and so #6 it was.

For us, if you beat a top-ten ranked fighter, that alone is a very strong argument that can get you in their spot. Not always though -if it was a bad win or a robbery, or a fighter is ranked beneath the guy you beat who recently beat you, or the division is too strong to allow it and your record is ho-um. However, at times the opposite happens –attrition allows you to get in (or float upward) higher than we intended due to guys getting beat (Broner, Indongo, etc.), leaving the division, exiting due to inactivity, etc. We do not manipulate or “correct” the rankings based on our angst. We only change them through votes after a fight.

I hope this alleviates your concerns. We don’t expect that any fan would agree with all of our rankings and we would never boast that they are monuments of perfection –we fight like cats and dogs on the forum often enough. Hell, I wring my hands about a few rankings that I fought against and lost, but overall, these are intended to be the go-to rankings for thinking fans and journalists/commentators who reject the nonsense that too many wink at in the sport. Thank you Jr., can I get breakfast now? Have a good day.
quote]

oogiebe wrote: ↑06 Apr 2018, 20:20

gilgamesh wrote: ↑06 Apr 2018, 20:16

SenorPipino wrote: ↑06 Apr 2018, 20:15

There's something about a 45 year old fighter who hadn't fought since 2014, who's supposedly getting a title shot (albeit a very dubious title) that just seems plain wrong.

If the bout ever takes place ( I have doubts) you can be certain that it will fizzle out as a controversial farce.

The controversy is that it's even happening. I figure who does eventually wind up fighting Oquendo beats him. They can't find a corpse dead enough for Oquendo to win a title over I don't figure

This fight is truly a MUST MISS.

Ha ha! I don't feel the same way though. I'd like to see what Oquendo has left. He should have been heavyweight champ you know . He was robbed vs Byrd and Ruiz. The Byrd fight is the one that caused George Foreman, the only honest announcer, to "quit". The tv bosses really really hate it when one of their hired talking heads does something outrageous like telling the truth, even if it's just about boxing. Of course that was 14 or 15 years ago.

x2x wrote: ↑07 Apr 2018, 01:17

oogiebe wrote: ↑06 Apr 2018, 20:20

gilgamesh wrote: ↑06 Apr 2018, 20:16

The controversy is that it's even happening. I figure who does eventually wind up fighting Oquendo beats him. They can't find a corpse dead enough for Oquendo to win a title over I don't figure

This fight is truly a MUST MISS.

Ha ha! I don't feel the same way though. I'd like to see what Oquendo has left. He should have been heavyweight champ you know . He was robbed vs Byrd and Ruiz. The Byrd fight is the one that caused George Foreman, the only honest announcer, to "quit". The tv bosses really really hate it when one of their hired talking heads does something outrageous like telling the truth, even if it's just about boxing. Of course that was 14 or 15 years ago.

Telling the truth seems to be a lost art these days...

SenorPipino wrote: ↑06 Apr 2018, 15:57 How come Joshua, who always says that he wants all the title belts, never mentions anything about going after Charr's prestigious world championship?

Please tell me you're joking. The WBA are a joke. How can any organisation recognize two world champions at the same weight ffs?

Joshua holds the "Super" title. I assume he wouldn't be allowed to hold both super and regular so why would he want the bullshit regular title?. C'mon Pip you're not a complete f'kin idiot, this was an attempt at humour wasn'i it?

candyslim wrote: ↑07 Apr 2018, 13:47

SenorPipino wrote: ↑06 Apr 2018, 15:57 How come Joshua, who always says that he wants all the title belts, never mentions anything about going after Charr's prestigious world championship?

Please tell me you're joking. The WBA are a joke. How can any organisation recognize two world champions at the same weight ffs?

Joshua holds the "Super" title. I assume he wouldn't be allowed to hold both super and regular so why would he want the bullshit regular title?. C'mon Pip you're not a complete f'kin idiot, this was an attempt at humour wasn'i it?

Even though I'm a complete f'kin idiot, CS, please try to follow my warped logic.

Ancient Fres Oquendo, who hasn't bothered to fight in years, has nevertheless spent all this time demanding a shot at this belt that you call a "bullshit regular title."

And that it may well be, but why has Oquendo exhausted himself chasing it if it's so worthless????

He even went to court for his right to reign as the WBA regular champ.

It must have some value if Oquendo has gone to such extremes. And if it does, then why doesn't Joshua challenge Charr to step up and defend it?

Let's say Joshua beats Wilder. Or vice versa. Either guy will call himself the undisputed heavyweight champion of the world.

But Charr will disagree, and flaunt his coveted WBA regular world championship, reminding them that they're not truly undisputed as long as he holds a flashy belt too

So I go back to my original premise CS. Why should the WBA regular heavyweight championship of the world be deemed worthless, but the potpourri of other alphabet belts that Wilder and Joshua wear, are somehow reflective of being undisputed?

No, you're not undisputed until Joshua or Wilder takes the belt off of Charr. Otherwise, sanctioning bodies are meaningless.

Of course Tyson Fury can throw his hat into this undisputed confusion and insist that nobody can be the One and Only champion without going through him.

Fury is rightfully the linear and true heavyweight champion of the world having never been defeated.

I'm certain that if old school Nat Fleischer was still kicking around, he would be supportive of Fury's claim to the throne.

Joshua has a long way to go before he can get away with hailing himself an undisputed champion.

Even the IBO belt isn't taken seriously. The four that are recognized are WBC, IBF, WBO and WBA. The WBA in it's wisdom has a senior (super) and a junior (regular) world title. The WBA are obliged to give Oquendo a shot at the championship of the world. Luckily nobody specified which one so they can fob him off with the meaningless one. Oquendo has probably watched Joshua and decided the regular title fight is just fine. At least he ought to survive it one piece.

Why do Charr and Oquendo value this much maligned title? Because they are good enough to compete for it. Some people will give their all, contesting a British regional (area) title. I once won a medal at my judo club. It meant f-all to anyone outside the club, but it meant a lot to me. Before the IBO, IBF and WBO there was the WAA which is now defunct. If they suddenly reappeared on the scene and decided to recognize the winner of Chris Arreola and Trey Lippe Morrison as world champion would then Joshua have to beat that winner before he could call himself undisputed world champion?

I can't believe I've spent 10 minutes composing a rebuttal of this preposterous line of argument.

candyslim wrote: ↑07 Apr 2018, 16:58 Even the IBO belt isn't taken seriously. The four that are recognized are WBC, IBF, WBO and WBA. The WBA in it's wisdom has a senior (super) and a junior (regular) world title. The WBA are obliged to give Oquendo a shot at the championship of the world. Luckily nobody specified which one so they can fob him off with the meaningless one. Oquendo has probably watched Joshua and decided the regular title fight is just fine. At least he ought to survive it one piece.

Why do Charr and Oquendo value this much maligned title? Because they are good enough to compete for it. Some people will give their all, contesting a British regional (area) title. I once won a medal at my judo club. It meant f-all to anyone outside the club, but it meant a lot to me. Before the IBO, IBF and WBO there was the WAA which is now defunct. If they suddenly reappeared on the scene and decided to recognize the winner of Chris Arreola and Trey Lippe Morrison as world champion would then Joshua have to beat that winner before he could call himself undisputed world champion?

I can't believe I've spent 10 minutes composing a rebuttal of this preposterous line of argument.

LMAO!!! Me neither! but you did it well! Let's discuss Silver HW title for whatever that is...

Let's not even go there

candyslim wrote: ↑07 Apr 2018, 18:20 Let's not even go there

LMAO!!!

TBH I wouldn't be surprised if Tyson Fury fights the winner, so it will still be worth some.

candyslim wrote: ↑07 Apr 2018, 18:20 Let's not even go there

oogiebe wrote: ↑06 Apr 2018, 19:03

gilgamesh wrote: ↑06 Apr 2018, 19:00 I really hate it that shortly after I became a Boxing fan the WBO gained prominence as a meaningful World Title. It already sucked bad enough when there were 3 sanctioning bodies then they had to go on and throw a 4th one in there

It's basically gotten to a point where you should just ignore the belts. Whoever the #1 guy is that's the man to beat. Belt or no belt.

We could and should but we need a source to look to. It used to be Ring Magazine, I don't know who or what it is today. I guess it's me!!!

Just ignore all those "@#*%*$" belts and just pay heed to the HeavyHitters Heavyweight rankings:

1. Deontay Wilder - ( could easily switch positions with AJ )
2. Anthony Joshua - ( could easily switch positions with DW )
3. Luis Ortiz - ( almost KO'ed DW )
4. Tyson Fury - ( if he actually comes back in decent shape )
5. Joseph Parker - ( needs more of a killer instinct in title fights )
6. Alexander Povetkin - ( getting older but still dangerous )
7. Jarrell Miller - ( big, tough guy, needs to prove himself against top opp )
8. Dillian Whyte - ( looks to be above the rest )
9. Kubrat Pulev - ( has a good resume' )
10. Daniel Dubois - ( big up and comer, needs more challenging fights )

HeavyHitters wrote: ↑13 Apr 2018, 13:18

oogiebe wrote: ↑06 Apr 2018, 19:03

gilgamesh wrote: ↑06 Apr 2018, 19:00 I really hate it that shortly after I became a Boxing fan the WBO gained prominence as a meaningful World Title. It already sucked bad enough when there were 3 sanctioning bodies then they had to go on and throw a 4th one in there

It's basically gotten to a point where you should just ignore the belts. Whoever the #1 guy is that's the man to beat. Belt or no belt.

We could and should but we need a source to look to. It used to be Ring Magazine, I don't know who or what it is today. I guess it's me!!!

Just ignore all those "@#*%*$" belts and just pay heed to the HeavyHitters Heavyweight rankings:

1. Deontay Wilder
2. Anthony Joshua
3. Luis Ortiz
4. Tyson Fury
5. Joseph Parker
6. Alexander Povetkin
7. Jarrell Miller
8. Dillian Whyte
9. Kubrat Pulev
10. Daniel Dubois

Ok! LOL! I'll buy that.

oogiebe wrote: ↑13 Apr 2018, 13:25

HeavyHitters wrote: ↑13 Apr 2018, 13:18

oogiebe wrote: ↑06 Apr 2018, 19:03

We could and should but we need a source to look to. It used to be Ring Magazine, I don't know who or what it is today. I guess it's me!!!

Just ignore all those "@#*%*$" belts and just pay heed to the HeavyHitters Heavyweight rankings:

1. Deontay Wilder
2. Anthony Joshua
3. Luis Ortiz
4. Tyson Fury
5. Joseph Parker
6. Alexander Povetkin
7. Jarrell Miller
8. Dillian Whyte
9. Kubrat Pulev
10. Daniel Dubois

Ok! LOL! I'll buy that.

Must we rank Fury when we haven't seen in years? Yes, we've heard plenty from him, but we haven't actually seen him fight.

If you're going to rank Fury, why not consider Oquendo too?

Tyson Fury will have one eye on this fight...

I'd be hard pressed to find another worthy heavyweight to be in my top 10, if it were not Fury making a return to the ring. In my mind, Fury beats Oquendo quite easily on points. So there is no reason for me to consider F-Oq in my list.

I have always liked Fres. He has been a tough durable heavyweight over the years. But I feel he should not have sat out all these years in court trying to line himself up for a WBA so-called title fight. I think he would have been more wise to take on other opportunities to make some money. But of course, I'm sure he is just wanting to have that chance to later in life say "I was heavyweight champion."

That being said, if I do not include Fury for lack of activity then my top 10 would probably be:

1. Deontay Wilder
2. Anthony Joshua
3. Luis Ortiz
4. Joseph Parker
5. Alexander Povetkin
6. Jarrell Miller
7. Dillian Whyte
8. Kubrat Pulev
9. Daniel Dubois
10. Dominic Breazeale ( or perhaps Tom Schwarz )

HeavyHitters wrote: ↑13 Apr 2018, 17:11 I'd be hard pressed to find another worthy heavyweight to be in my top 10, if it were not Fury making a return to the ring. In my mind, Fury beats Oquendo quite easily on points. So there is no reason for me to consider FQ in my list.

I have always liked Fres. He has been a tough durable heavyweight over the years. But I feel he should not have sat out all these years in court trying to line himself up for a WBA so-called title fight. I think he would have been more wise to take on other opportunities to make some money. But of course, I'm sure he is just wanting to have that chance to later in life say "I was heavyweight champion."

That being said, if I do not include Fury for lack of activity then my top 10 would probably be:

1. Deontay Wilder
2. Anthony Joshua
3. Luis Ortiz
4. Joseph Parker
5. Alexander Povetkin
6. Jarrell Miller
7. Dillian Whyte
8. Kubrat Pulev
9. Daniel Dubois
10. Dominic Breazeale ( or perhaps Tom Schwarz )

Not bad. Reasonable. Dubois too high at this juncture. After 5, it's anyone's guess. I think your inclusion of Fury wasn't a bad move, but we won't see that until he signs to fight whatever punching bag he signs with. As soon as he wins, Fury will vault into the top 5 or 6, as that is how he alphabet pigs like it. NIce!