BoxRec

candyslim wrote: ↑28 Apr 2018, 07:43 I think it's clear Ortiz is not what he was, but Pulev is 37 and it's been a while since he fought anyone good enough to test whether he still justifies his lofty ranking. And while i'm not saying his injury wasn't genuine, he didn't seem exactly gutted to have to pull out of the Joshua fight did he? I think Ortiz is at this stage retaining more ambition than Pulev.

candyslim wrote: ↑28 Apr 2018, 07:43 I think prime for prime they both beat Whyte as he is today, not forgetting that Whyte is an improving fighter learning as he goes. He may be a way short of his peak yet.

candyslim wrote: ↑28 Apr 2018, 07:43 The thing is Joshua and Whyte might not like each other very much, but they are both with Eddie Hearn and they both want to fight each other again, only not now. Dillian would like to face AJ as a fellow champion but with Sulaiman doing Haymon's bidding, it doesn't appear he will get a chance at the only belt Joshua doesn't hold.

Sure he could fight Pulev and probably outwork him, but earning the IBF mandatory slot doesn't really advance his prospects. Joshua v Whyte II happens regardless and the mandatory earns him 25% guaranteed but against Joshua de'd probably be looking for 40/60 whether he's mandatory or not.

If I'm Whyte I think I fight Ortiz anyway. What he has got that's better?

I'd still sue the fukcers though.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 03:21 "Hearn will appeal WBC’s decision to order Dillian Whyte vs. Luis Ortiz"

Eddie Hearn says he plans on appealing the World Boxing Council’s decision to order a fight between #1 WBC Dillian Whyte and #3 Luis ‘King Kong’ Ortiz for the second mandatory position to get a title shot against WBC heavyweight champion Deontay ‘Bronze Bomber’ Wilder

Hearn wants the WBC to install the 29-year-old Whyte (23-1, 17 KOs) as Wilder’s mandatory so that he can get a title shot straightaway rather than having to go through Ortiz (28-1, 24 KOs).

“We’re going to appeal that. [WBC president]" Mauricio Sulaiman said he would talk about it this week, and maybe post a resolution,” Hearn said to skysports.com.

"Hearn expects to complete Dillian Whyte vs. Kubrat Pulev deal for July 28"

Dillian Whyte (23-1, 17 KOs) will be fighting former heavyweight world title challenger Kubrat Pulev (25-1, 13 KOs) next on July 28 in an IBF heavyweight title eliminator, as Matchroom Boxing promoter Eddie Hearn is looking to finish that deal before the purse bid a week from now.

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 08:51

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 03:21 "Hearn will appeal WBC’s decision to order Dillian Whyte vs. Luis Ortiz"

Eddie Hearn says he plans on appealing the World Boxing Council’s decision to order a fight between #1 WBC Dillian Whyte and #3 Luis ‘King Kong’ Ortiz for the second mandatory position to get a title shot against WBC heavyweight champion Deontay ‘Bronze Bomber’ Wilder

Hearn wants the WBC to install the 29-year-old Whyte (23-1, 17 KOs) as Wilder’s mandatory so that he can get a title shot straightaway rather than having to go through Ortiz (28-1, 24 KOs).

“We’re going to appeal that. [WBC president]" Mauricio Sulaiman said he would talk about it this week, and maybe post a resolution,” Hearn said to skysports.com.

"Hearn expects to complete Dillian Whyte vs. Kubrat Pulev deal for July 28"

Dillian Whyte (23-1, 17 KOs) will be fighting former heavyweight world title challenger Kubrat Pulev (25-1, 13 KOs) next on July 28 in an IBF heavyweight title eliminator, as Matchroom Boxing promoter Eddie Hearn is looking to finish that deal before the purse bid a week from now.

I.E. Hearn tries to have Whyte duck Ortiz. Seriously...why the max effort?

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 08:58

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 08:51

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 03:21 "Hearn will appeal WBC’s decision to order Dillian Whyte vs. Luis Ortiz"

Eddie Hearn says he plans on appealing the World Boxing Council’s decision to order a fight between #1 WBC Dillian Whyte and #3 Luis ‘King Kong’ Ortiz for the second mandatory position to get a title shot against WBC heavyweight champion Deontay ‘Bronze Bomber’ Wilder

Hearn wants the WBC to install the 29-year-old Whyte (23-1, 17 KOs) as Wilder’s mandatory so that he can get a title shot straightaway rather than having to go through Ortiz (28-1, 24 KOs).

“We’re going to appeal that. [WBC president]" Mauricio Sulaiman said he would talk about it this week, and maybe post a resolution,” Hearn said to skysports.com.

"Hearn expects to complete Dillian Whyte vs. Kubrat Pulev deal for July 28"

Dillian Whyte (23-1, 17 KOs) will be fighting former heavyweight world title challenger Kubrat Pulev (25-1, 13 KOs) next on July 28 in an IBF heavyweight title eliminator, as Matchroom Boxing promoter Eddie Hearn is looking to finish that deal before the purse bid a week from now.

I.E. Hearn tries to have Whyte duck Ortiz. Seriously...why the max effort?

You've clearly not been following the situation, have you?

Seriously kid, stop prematurely jumping to all sorts of derogatory conclusions until you understand the nature of the subject matter you're commenting on.

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 09:00

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 08:58

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 08:51

I.E. Hearn tries to have Whyte duck Ortiz. Seriously...why the max effort?

You've clearly not been following the situation, have you?

Seriously kid, stop prematurely jumping to all sorts of derogatory conclusions until you understand the nature of the subject matter you're commenting on.

1 - I'm sure I'm older than you
2 - It's my opinion
3 - Don't diss me/show some respect
4 - see number 1.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 09:03

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 09:00

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 08:58
You've clearly not been following the situation, have you?

Seriously kid, stop prematurely jumping to all sorts of derogatory conclusions until you understand the nature of the subject matter you're commenting on.

1 - I'm sure I'm older than you
2 - It's my opinion
3 - Don't diss me/show some respect
4 - see number 1.

An intelligent-minded person would refrain from articulating an opinion until they've gathered a basic understanding of the situation.

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 09:04

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 09:03

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 09:00

1 - I'm sure I'm older than you
2 - It's my opinion
3 - Don't diss me/show some respect
4 - see number 1.

An intelligent-minded person would refrain from articulating an opinion until they've gathered a basic understanding of the situation.

Now you're saying I'm not intelligent. Anything else before I fire back, because today I'm in the mood for a brawl..

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 09:09

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 09:04

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 09:03
An intelligent-minded person would refrain from articulating an opinion until they've gathered a basic understanding of the situation.

Now you're saying I'm not intelligent. Anything else before I fire back, because today I'm in the mood for a brawl..

I'm saying that you prematurely jumped to a derogatory conclusion without understanding the subject matter you were commenting on.

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 09:12

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 09:09

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 09:04

Now you're saying I'm not intelligent. Anything else before I fire back, because today I'm in the mood for a brawl..

I'm saying that you prematurely jumped to a derogatory conclusion without understanding the subject matter you were commenting on.

OK, fair enough. You are, Repectfully, incorrect. I've been watching/reading/seeing all the Hearn's maneuvering and have come to the conclusion that Hearns is in the driver's seat and doesn't want to give it up. Same idea, different verbiage. He is a true promoter who wants to control it all. Why wouldn't he? IT's just the plain truth.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 09:17

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 09:12

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 09:09
I'm saying that you prematurely jumped to a derogatory conclusion without understanding the subject matter you were commenting on.

OK, fair enough. You are, Repectfully, incorrect. I've been watching/reading/seeing all the Hearn's maneuvering and have come to the conclusion that Hearns is in the driver's seat and doesn't want to give it up. Same idea, different verbiage. He is a true promoter who wants to control it all. Why wouldn't he? IT's just the plain truth.

Do you not have any empathy over Whyte's reluctance to keep jumping through the WBC's hoops in order to gain his shot at Wilder or do you insist that it's a straightforward case of the Brit ducking the Cuban?

Your answer will determine whether you actually understand the subject matter.

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 09:18 Here are a sample of Eddie Hearn Headlines. He's a thug turned promoter who is a control freak. Read on:

1 Eddie Hearn warns of short deadline to agree terms on Anthony Joshua-Deontay Wilder unification clash: 'We have two or three weeks to do this'

2 Eddie Hearn pegs Joshua-Wilder chances at 70 percent

3 Eddie Hearn - Deontay Wilder doesn't want to fight Joshua

4 Eddie Hearn says he’s perplexed by Team-Wilder negotiation methods; refusal to sit down and talk with him

ETc. etc. I can provide links to the triple talking Eddie.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 09:23

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 09:18 Here are a sample of Eddie Hearn Headlines. He's a thug turned promoter who is a control freak. Read on:

1 Eddie Hearn warns of short deadline to agree terms on Anthony Joshua-Deontay Wilder unification clash: 'We have two or three weeks to do this'

2 Eddie Hearn pegs Joshua-Wilder chances at 70 percent

3 Eddie Hearn - Deontay Wilder doesn't want to fight Joshua

4 Eddie Hearn says he’s perplexed by Team-Wilder negotiation methods; refusal to sit down and talk with him

ETc. etc. I can provide links to the triple talking Eddie.

So in simple terms: you don't understand Dillian Whyte's issue with the WBC, so you're trying to use red herring debating tactics to change the topic being discussed, in order to divert the attention of those following our conversation as to your blatant lack of knowledge about the subject matter.

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 09:26Seriously EO, you are proving my point. You are being like Kalan (but without the knowledge). Agree or be wrong. If that is how you want to be perceived...more power to you. Ciao!

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 09:49

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 09:26Seriously EO, you are proving my point. You are being like Kalan (but without the knowledge). Agree or be wrong. If that is how you want to be perceived...more power to you. Ciao!

You’re doing it again, using yet another red herring in order to avoid conceding that you don’t really understand Dillian Whyte’s situation with the WBC.

You’ve submitted several posts to this thread in the last hour or so and none of your comments show any evidence of your understanding of the situation.

I asked you a simple question about the Whyte-WBC situation and you responded by submitting an irrational post about Hearn & Wilder.

You then decided to attack me and Kalan instead of commenting on the Whyte-Ortiz-WBC situation.

It seems you’re doing your upmost to avoid expressing any thoughts that are on topic, that directly relate to the subject matter of this thread, yet you bizarrely keep posting to it.

I couldn’t care less if you disagree with me, if you’re educated about the subject matter, but if you insist on posting derogatory comments out of sheer ignorance, then you need to expect your posts to be aggressively challenged by others.

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 09:53

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 09:49

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 09:26Seriously EO, you are proving my point. You are being like Kalan (but without the knowledge). Agree or be wrong. If that is how you want to be perceived...more power to you. Ciao!

You’re doing it again, using yet another red herring in order to avoid conceding that you don’t really understand Dillian Whyte’s situation with the WBC.

You’ve submitted several posts to this thread in the last hour or so and none of your comments show any evidence of your understanding of the situation.

I asked you a simple question about the Whyte-WBC situation and you responded by submitting an irrational post about Hearn & Wilder.

You then decided to attack me and Kalan instead of commenting on the Whyte-Ortiz-WBC situation.

It seems you’re doing your upmost to avoid expressing any thoughts that are on topic, that directly relate to the subject matter of this thread, yet you bizarrely keep posting to it.

I couldn’t care less if you disagree with me, if you’re educated about the subject matter, but if you insist on posting derogatory comments out of sheer ignorance, then you need to expect your posts to be aggressively challenged by others.

Know what? One thing I understand is that you are conflating as I am and have been talking about Eddie Hearn's BS. Your psychological analysis of me is humorous but essentially incorrect. I have said "I've been wrong" and "I didn't know that" more times than I can count, but I don't believe I am inaccurate on this. So you are pointing these posts at me without any education on that particular subject matter. Troll on big boy! I'm really not interested in your views any longer.

Heretic wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 08:40

candyslim wrote: ↑28 Apr 2018, 07:43 I think it's clear Ortiz is not what he was, but Pulev is 37 and it's been a while since he fought anyone good enough to test whether he still justifies his lofty ranking. And while i'm not saying his injury wasn't genuine, he didn't seem exactly gutted to have to pull out of the Joshua fight did he? I think Ortiz is at this stage retaining more ambition than Pulev.

In my opinion Pulev pulling out of the Joshua fight shows that he actually still has ambitions. He could have done what Pac did and fight with broken shoulder and get career high payday. (Or at least second highest after the Wlad fight.) I think that hes refusal to fight with injury actually means that he thinks he can win against Joshua and that hes not going to fight him just for the good payday.

cs:I would have probably reached the same conclusion were it not that Pulev definitely rejected the offer once before (the abortive mandatory shot) to face Joshua, and I can't confirm but others have agreed when I posted that I heard he had rejected more than once. Badhusker said multiple times but that could just be hyperbole.

cs: It's my feeling that he is content being a national hero, a Bulgarian sporting icon and he would rather forego even £5m for fighting Joshua if that meant another Klitschkoesque beating and loss of face in the eyes of his adoring fans . There again I could be talking out of my arse. It's a difficult technique and took me a long time to master.

candyslim wrote: ↑28 Apr 2018, 07:43 I think prime for prime they both beat Whyte as he is today, not forgetting that Whyte is an improving fighter learning as he goes. He may be a way short of his peak yet.

I agree with this

candyslim wrote: ↑28 Apr 2018, 07:43 The thing is Joshua and Whyte might not like each other very much, but they are both with Eddie Hearn and they both want to fight each other again, only not now. Dillian would like to face AJ as a fellow champion but with Sulaiman doing Haymon's bidding, it doesn't appear he will get a chance at the only belt Joshua doesn't hold.

Sure he could fight Pulev and probably outwork him, but earning the IBF mandatory slot doesn't really advance his prospects. Joshua v Whyte II happens regardless and the mandatory earns him 25% guaranteed but against Joshua de'd probably be looking for 40/60 whether he's mandatory or not.

If I'm Whyte I think I fight Ortiz anyway. What he has got that's better?

I'd still sue the fukcers though.

Whyte is in tight spot. He is good enough that guys like Wilder want to duck him but hes not good enough that he can just fight anybody to get to the mandatory position. He needs to pick hes battles well to get to that big pay day.

cs: I know that, and you know that, but does he know that? You might be right about the 40% and it is by no means certain he would beat Ortiz but ... I don't think defeat against Ortiz would be too damaging in that UK fans will still want Joshua v Whyte II barring a humiliating defeat against Ortiz, and if he were to win even Sulaiman might baulk at putting another obstacle in his path. His goal must be to get to Wilder before Joshua does, and to this end he appears to have a powerful ally in Hearn.

I would actually like to see the Joshua rematch. I don't see Whyte getting anywhere close to 40/60 deal for that fight. Joshua holds all of the financial power in that negotiation. That mandatory 25% could actually be pretty good deal for him.

cs: I think he'll do better than 25% even if 40% is too optimistic on my part.

Trying to get to mandatory position for WBC is really stupid. They can and will do what the eff they want with their rankings. I don't think that they are braking any laws while doing it so suing them will lead to nowhere.

cs: You're probably right and I say that primarily because it's noticeable that Hearn is careful not to overstep the mark in his very justifiable annoyance. He is talking about an appeal rather than a lawsuit so my suing them comment was more wishful thinking rather than a constructive plan of action.

I really hate the WBC

cs: Of course you do. How could any sane and right-thinking boxing fan not feel that way? Don't bother - I know the answer to that one.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 10:07

jamamb wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 10:59 realistically in todays division whyte already has one of the best resumes, certainly of the best over the last few years. some talk of him maybe fighting pulev next and if he beats him too his resume becomes extremely hard to knock unless you do it to almost everyone else

SFW wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 10:50 Maybe we can be honest and point out Dillian Whyte has essentially beaten a couple dreadful heavyweights living on name recognition and has actually proven far less than advertised. The benefits of a weak division, vastly overrated fighters like Whyte get rewarded with undue praise. Making him fight an actual threat like Ortiz, to earn a title shot, is far from a big ask. I'm glad it upsets the plans, they wanna fuss every time poo doesn't go their way whine because they didn't get what they want when they want it. Any real fan would want Whyte to face the best, not the absolute poo he previously faced. A lifeless mummy and a horribly out of shape inactive doper who came to cash out. These are not valuable wins, it's sad anyone would think that. Now Ortiz could be by far Whyte's biggest win, and it's a chance to outdo Wilder. They don't fancy his chances, or like not having control. There might be extra hoops to go through, but Whyte had an easy path to get where he is now, can't feel sorry. Not when most boxers have to do far more to get the chances and backing he's already gotten.