BoxRec

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑19 Feb 2019, 10:43

SenorPipino wrote: ↑19 Feb 2019, 10:00

Eolaithe wrote: ↑19 Feb 2019, 03:31 Robert Helenius would be a massive step back in calibre for Oleksandr Usyk – it would be a meaningless win over a fighter that hasn’t achieved a damn thing.

Introduction to the heavyweight division. Against a massive opponent.

That's all that's necessary to justify it.

I can't think of the last guy usyk fought that wouldn't be a sound favorite over helenius.

But does it matter?

The idea would be to clearly demonstrate to all the Usyk skeptics, that he can handle a huge heavyweight.

After he pummels Helenius, the seed is planted that he can do the same to fighters of similar physical stature i.e. Joshua, Fury, Wilder.

It would be Usyk's HW debut, so he'll get a pass on quality of opposition.

When Holyfield debuted at heavyweight, after becoming undisputed cruiserweight king, he was fed a very faded Quick Tillis.

No one complained that it was a step back. Fans were curious to see how he would perform against a heavyweight.

The same applies to Usyk.

Helenius is decent and he has the size. It's good option for Usyk. The Ukrainian should get used to big guys. But it will be too risky to take on the champs immediately. So Helenius is a good option. And it's a good fight for Helenius too, he has nothing to lose and can win a lot in the case of an actual victory.

Yeah, Adamek surely learned a lot from facing Grant and McBride.

Blodhemn wrote: ↑19 Feb 2019, 11:21 Yeah, Adamek surely learned a lot from facing Grant and McBride.

Neither Grant at that point nor McBride were that good, that Helenius can be now.

povetkins actually stronger and harder punching then helenius despite being smaller

pov would actually be a good win adding value to usyks SC resume while hellys merely just a hw debut open

DrDuke wrote: ↑19 Feb 2019, 11:25

Blodhemn wrote: ↑19 Feb 2019, 11:21 Yeah, Adamek surely learned a lot from facing Grant and McBride.

Neither Grant at that point nor McBride were that good, that Helenius can be now.

Wasn't Holy coming from 190 and not 200?

DrDuke wrote: ↑19 Feb 2019, 11:25

Blodhemn wrote: ↑19 Feb 2019, 11:21 Yeah, Adamek surely learned a lot from facing Grant and McBride.

Neither Grant at that point nor McBride were that good, that Helenius can be now.

What does that even mean?

oogiebe wrote: ↑19 Feb 2019, 11:26

DrDuke wrote: ↑19 Feb 2019, 11:25

Blodhemn wrote: ↑19 Feb 2019, 11:21 Yeah, Adamek surely learned a lot from facing Grant and McBride.

Neither Grant at that point nor McBride were that good, that Helenius can be now.

Wasn't Holy coming from 190 and not 200?

Yes.

Cruiserweight limit was 190 back in 1988.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑19 Feb 2019, 11:47

oogiebe wrote: ↑19 Feb 2019, 11:26

DrDuke wrote: ↑19 Feb 2019, 11:25

Blodhemn wrote: ↑19 Feb 2019, 11:21 Yeah, Adamek surely learned a lot from facing Grant and McBride.

Neither Grant at that point nor McBride were that good, that Helenius can be now.

Wasn't Holy coming from 190 and not 200?

Yes.

Cruiserweight limit was 190 back in 1988.

So my point is that Holy came from a lower weight. Had a bigger jump.

Blodhemn wrote: ↑19 Feb 2019, 11:44

DrDuke wrote: ↑19 Feb 2019, 11:25

Blodhemn wrote: ↑19 Feb 2019, 11:21 Yeah, Adamek surely learned a lot from facing Grant and McBride.

Neither Grant at that point nor McBride were that good, that Helenius can be now.

What does that even mean?

That meant, that I don't take those Adamek's wins as something really valuable, in comparison to what Usyk can learn in a potential Helenius fight.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑19 Feb 2019, 11:08

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑19 Feb 2019, 10:43

SenorPipino wrote: ↑19 Feb 2019, 10:00

Eolaithe wrote: ↑19 Feb 2019, 03:31 Robert Helenius would be a massive step back in calibre for Oleksandr Usyk – it would be a meaningless win over a fighter that hasn’t achieved a damn thing.

Introduction to the heavyweight division. Against a massive opponent.

That's all that's necessary to justify it.

I can't think of the last guy usyk fought that wouldn't be a sound favorite over helenius.

But does it matter?

The idea would be to clearly demonstrate to all the Usyk skeptics, that he can handle a huge heavyweight.

After he pummels Helenius, the seed is planted that he can do the same to fighters of similar physical stature i.e. Joshua, Fury, Wilder.

It would be Usyk's HW debut, so he'll get a pass on quality of opposition.

When Holyfield debuted at heavyweight, after becoming undisputed cruiserweight king, he was fed a very faded Quick Tillis.

No one complained that it was a step back. Fans were curious to see how he would perform against a heavyweight.

The same applies to Usyk.

Yes, it matters that he's been handily beating guys that are all much better than helenius. Matters a hell of a lot more than height and a gut. I wouldn't complain, just wouldn't watch it. I have no doubt usyk wants a better fight. If he can't secure one it's better to stay active.

oogiebe wrote: ↑19 Feb 2019, 12:01

SenorPipino wrote: ↑19 Feb 2019, 11:47

oogiebe wrote: ↑19 Feb 2019, 11:26

DrDuke wrote: ↑19 Feb 2019, 11:25

Blodhemn wrote: ↑19 Feb 2019, 11:21 Yeah, Adamek surely learned a lot from facing Grant and McBride.

Neither Grant at that point nor McBride were that good, that Helenius can be now.

Wasn't Holy coming from 190 and not 200?

Yes.

Cruiserweight limit was 190 back in 1988.

So my point is that Holy came from a lower weight. Had a bigger jump.

Yes, true.

But I hear time after time that today's heavyweights are so much bigger than even a generation ago.

You know how fans always scream that Ali, Frazier, Quarry, Norton et. al would all be cruiserweights if they fought today (even if they were over 200) .

This is the era of 6'6" + 250'll lb. + heavyweights. Much more imposing physically than the guys Holyfield had to face.

Tyson usually fought around 217 back then.

So while Usyk is bigger than Holyfield, he has to conquer bigger guys than Holyfield did.

Now I always say that talent is much more important than someone's height and weight.

But so many are mesmerized by physical stature, that it seems to them that Usyk has a bigger hill to climb than Holyfield.

Helenius isn't ranked in the top 10, why not fight someone highly ranked?

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2019, 12:53 Helenius isn't ranked in the top 10, why not fight someone highly ranked?

Just an introduction to heavyweight boxing. And Helenius certainly looks the part of a heavyweight. More so than Povetkin.

Not being a champion, Usyk's certainly under no obligation to fight ranked boxers.

This would be a good pick for me. Povetkin’s a very credible opponent but one whoes lack of mobility and poor footwork should play to Usyk strengths.

For Povetkin part, he’s too high risk low reward for most the other contenders in the division. If he intends to retire soon, this could be his last chance for one more big fight