BoxRec

Finkel wrote: ↑05 Apr 2020, 09:30 I read it, unfortunately.
Every paragraph consisted of false equivalencies, double standards, or just straight up claims based on some kind of alternate reality.

Finkel wrote: ↑04 Apr 2020, 22:35 Wilder doesn't even have the WBC title, and he is still blocking the undisputed fight.

keirw wrote: ↑05 Apr 2020, 09:27 Joshua did beat 2 reigning champions (granted one was a bit sh!t) and the vacant belt he won was against the best heavyweight of the previous decade.

Also none of the four main belts are really seen as better than the others nowadays, so not sure why you claim the WBC and WBA are the most important.

I do agree that both sides are to blame for the AJ/Wilder fight not happening.
I don't believe either fighter was ducking. It seemed to me that the two teams just don't like each other very much and were refusing to give an inch.

ewenhay wrote: ↑05 Apr 2020, 10:25 To be fair Joshua has beaten 3 reigning champs.


But none are called Klitschko. And one of them was only because he'd just lost to him.


Martin, Parker and Ruiz.

Tevfik1907 wrote: ↑05 Apr 2020, 10:21

Finkel wrote: ↑05 Apr 2020, 09:30 I read it, unfortunately.
Every paragraph consisted of false equivalencies, double standards, or just straight up claims based on some kind of alternate reality.

Not only you didn't read, and now you're lying

If you read it, you wouldn't say this nonsense;

Finkel wrote: ↑04 Apr 2020, 22:35 Wilder doesn't even have the WBC title, and he is still blocking the undisputed fight.

What is this guy even talking about?

I never talk about current Wilder.

keirw wrote: ↑05 Apr 2020, 09:27 Joshua did beat 2 reigning champions (granted one was a bit sh!t) and the vacant belt he won was against the best heavyweight of the previous decade.

Also none of the four main belts are really seen as better than the others nowadays, so not sure why you claim the WBC and WBA are the most important.

I do agree that both sides are to blame for the AJ/Wilder fight not happening.
I don't believe either fighter was ducking. It seemed to me that the two teams just don't like each other very much and were refusing to give an inch.

Fury already beat Klitschko in 2015, he was no longer the reigning champion. They fought for the vacant belt.

And Joseph Parker had 2 WBO title defense, he wasn't a long reigning champion, plus his victory against Ruiz was not satisfying, people said Ruiz won that fight so Joseph Parker's championship was in doubt, and WBO is not a major belt.

AJ fought no reigning champion.

WBC and WBA are the oldest belts with a decent boxing history.

WBO and IBF are made up belts which came only after 1980s.

If Wilder is actually a ''sham'' then AJ is the one to blame with. Because he didn't really want that fight to happen for years, if he wanted he would fight with Wilder. Perhaps he was afraid to get his ass kicked like Ruiz kicked his ass? Who knows.

But instead we've this kind of threads from AJ fanboys, who are trying to slander Wilder all the time. I am really sick of AJ fanboys, and I don't even like Wilder.

Tevfik1907 wrote: ↑05 Apr 2020, 11:44

ewenhay wrote: ↑05 Apr 2020, 10:25 To be fair Joshua has beaten 3 reigning champs.


But none are called Klitschko. And one of them was only because he'd just lost to him.


Martin, Parker and Ruiz.

Martin just won a vacant IBF belt, he had 0 title defense, it means nothing.

Parker won a vacant WBO belt against Ruiz with a controversial decision, and had only 2 weak title defenses.

He lost to Ruiz by KO.

Then he take it back by decision when Ruiz was fat and not trained well.

He beat no real champion. Just like Wilder.

ewenhay wrote: ↑05 Apr 2020, 13:18

Tevfik1907 wrote: ↑05 Apr 2020, 11:44

Martin just won a vacant IBF belt, he had 0 title defense, it means nothing.

Parker won a vacant WBO belt against Ruiz with a controversial decision, and had only 2 weak title defenses.

He lost to Ruiz by KO.

Then he take it back by decision when Ruiz was fat and not trained well.

He beat no real champion. Just like Wilder.

I'm not saying it's a great list.

In fact it isn't. Martin sold his belt. Parker was average and wasn't allowed to fight in close. Ruiz turned up in dreadful condition.

But he beat three reigning champions.

I think Fury and Wilder both deal with Joshua pretty easily.

jas80s wrote: ↑01 Apr 2020, 15:53

Thomastearns wrote: ↑01 Apr 2020, 06:07


Good post! No one would argue that Deontay Wilder has not been very carefully guided through his career - despite the one glaring $$ mistake ie the failure to make the AJ fight.

So whilst it's been generally good for Wilder and good for his backers - its not been necessarily good for the fans. He could and probably should have fought Joshua, Parker, Whyte, Ruiz etc.

Any of these fights could have been classics, but all alas were deemed too big a gamble for his many backers. Today's promoters are odds players and extremely hesitant to attempt any Ali/Tyson-like trajectory through their division. Unlike Angelo Dundee or Cus D'Amato they prefer instead to attempt to carefully tiptoe their charges through what they deem is the 'safest' route to megabucks.

Some of them are prepared to use any means possible to assist the safest passage.

Deontay so far has been willing to listen carefully to his backers but he needs to remember that he employs them and not the other way round.

There's still time for Deontay Wilder to put it right but he needs to start work fast. He can make a great start by flattening Fury in their rematch and then all the doors will re-open.

Part of me wants to say that it's a mistake to go right after Fury again, but you have to respect the fact that he wants a tough fight. I can't help but think as fans we should appreciate when fighters do that, or are allowed to do that.

punchoutsb wrote: ↑05 Apr 2020, 15:37 Obviously not a sham, but it was carefully guided and he will be remembered as more of a "what if?" than anything and he'll have no one to blame but himself.

I still think he would smash Whyte, Parker, and I'd favor him against AJ. Instead his entire career is based almost entirely around beating an ancient Ortiz twice, who himself had build a fearsome reputation among fans without ever really beating anyone noteworthy.

On his night Wilder's power can bail him out against anyone but Fury it seems. However, feasting on tomato cans for 95% of his career won't have done much for his legacy. Sadly for him, the division is so terrible he won't be able to earn his way out of the position he put himself in. Even fighting some tough journeymen on the way up would have helped in the long run.

With all that being said, given Wilders actual in-ring ability, he's had a marvelous career. That power will always be remembered.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑05 Apr 2020, 13:25 He's no Ali, Louis, or Lewis, but he's more than Earnie Shavers.

Calling his career "a sham" is too ridiculous for debate. So everyone is a sham if they aren't top 10 of all time in their division?

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑05 Apr 2020, 16:09

Tony1244 wrote: ↑05 Apr 2020, 13:25 He's no Ali, Louis, or Lewis, but he's more than Earnie Shavers.

Calling his career "a sham" is too ridiculous for debate. So everyone is a sham if they aren't top 10 of all time in their division?

After he beat Lou Ortiz you picked him to KO prime Holyfield, Bowe, and Louis---I'd say if everyone was rating him as an ATG elite level HW in that manner then he'd seem more like a sham, but the reality is he overachieved relative to what the majority predicted I think. And especially coming up early on as a prospect he just looked awful at times--I was sure he'd get starched pretty quickly vs world/fringe world level.

Even if he doesn't get another decent result, his career has been solid. Obviously more quantity than quality and he doesn't have much value on his record in terms of historical ratings vs other top champs of different eras, but still a top 5 hw for a minimum of 5 years and will always be remembered for his power. Tons only stick around for a year or two near the top or look big hitters but then the power doesn't carry up the levels; him on the other hand just broke the levels (and his own hands lol)

F@CK vitali and his fake power HW KO record, Deontay brings the real heat

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑05 Apr 2020, 16:06

punchoutsb wrote: ↑05 Apr 2020, 15:37 Obviously not a sham, but it was carefully guided and he will be remembered as more of a "what if?" than anything and he'll have no one to blame but himself.

I still think he would smash Whyte, Parker, and I'd favor him against AJ. Instead his entire career is based almost entirely around beating an ancient Ortiz twice, who himself had build a fearsome reputation among fans without ever really beating anyone noteworthy.

On his night Wilder's power can bail him out against anyone but Fury it seems. However, feasting on tomato cans for 95% of his career won't have done much for his legacy. Sadly for him, the division is so terrible he won't be able to earn his way out of the position he put himself in. Even fighting some tough journeymen on the way up would have helped in the long run.

With all that being said, given Wilders actual in-ring ability, he's had a marvelous career. That power will always be remembered.

Well, I don't really get that last seentance when you think he'd beat all those guys--I assume it includes all but Fury too. I'd say then that he has plenty of in-ring ability, and that if he is really that good than he's clearly underachieved, unless you just mean he's financially done well

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑05 Apr 2020, 20:08 When he's good enough , for whatever reason, that he apparently beats all these guys who would be elite wins for him, but never did, it seems if anything like a case of underachieving.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑05 Apr 2020, 20:29 Sure, he's obviously his best win, don't think it really needs stating, but my goodness the other contenders from that are unimpressive, say what you want about AJ, Whyte, and Parker, but beating them would easily take his accomplishments to the next level. If you think he has the in ring ability that he would beat them all, and presumably many other contenders, certainly he has underachieved for whatever reason and regardless of his limitations he has not accomplished even close to what his ability would have allowed him too.

just doesn't seem like a case in that instance to act like he's achieved wonderfully for his ability. that's the type of career where you wish you had seen more from the guy