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Vassily Lomachenko is mentioning that Lightweight isnt his best division and that he'd be more dominant at Jr lightweight, this means that he is perhaps dealing with a 3.8% disadvantage in terms of bodysize when facing his opponents. Someone not able to make cruiserweight and having to fight at the proposed supercruiserweight division instead might be dealing with a 7.7% size disadvantage which is more than double the disadvantage that Loma is dealing with.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑18 Sep 2020, 17:05

H8Usernames wrote: ↑18 Sep 2020, 16:58 The only intelligent way to do this:

Weight in pounds Weight incriment in %

Heavyweight Unlimited Unlimited
Super Cruiserweight 210 7.70%
Cruiserweight 195 5.40%
Jr Cruiserweight 185 5.70%
Light heavyweight 175 4.20%
Super middleweight 168 5%
Middleweight 160 3.90%
Junior middleweight 154 4.80%
Welterweight 147 5%
Junior welterweight 140 3.70%
Lightweight 135 3.80%
Junior lightweight 130 3.20%
Featherweight 126 3.30%
Junior featherweight 122 3.40%
Bantamweight 118 2.60%
Junior bantamweight 115 2.70%
Flyweight 112 3.70%
Junior flyweight 108 2.90%
Strawweight 105 2.90%
Light minimumweight 102 Lowest weight

Jeez, why don't we just have a division for each pound.

We do, its a long established and popular one, its called the a-side catchweight.

H8Usernames wrote: ↑18 Sep 2020, 17:15

Tony1244 wrote: ↑18 Sep 2020, 17:05

H8Usernames wrote: ↑18 Sep 2020, 16:58 The only intelligent way to do this:

Weight in pounds Weight incriment in %

Heavyweight Unlimited Unlimited
Super Cruiserweight 210 7.70%
Cruiserweight 195 5.40%
Jr Cruiserweight 185 5.70%
Light heavyweight 175 4.20%
Super middleweight 168 5%
Middleweight 160 3.90%
Junior middleweight 154 4.80%
Welterweight 147 5%
Junior welterweight 140 3.70%
Lightweight 135 3.80%
Junior lightweight 130 3.20%
Featherweight 126 3.30%
Junior featherweight 122 3.40%
Bantamweight 118 2.60%
Junior bantamweight 115 2.70%
Flyweight 112 3.70%
Junior flyweight 108 2.90%
Strawweight 105 2.90%
Light minimumweight 102 Lowest weight

Jeez, why don't we just have a division for each pound.

We do, its a long established and popular one, its called the a-side catchweight.

And under this proposed re-alignment will the fighters be mandated to fight at the limits and not catchweights? Not trying to make any jabs just wondering.
But I think adding two more weight divisions only hurt the sport. The body weight thing is a pretty cool in depth concept but if it takes adding two more weight classes to the already 17 existing ones it would be a no from me. Not only that, but moving CW or in your proposition, super CW up to 210 won't do much. Most guys competing for HW championships at least that moved up from cruiser are doing so above 210. Unless your plan is to make that transition easier for some fighters? Not sure. As EO stated most fighters who have at least fought for a HW belt in the past 10 years have done so above 220 so I think moving the CW limit to at least 220 (225 in my proposition) would be more appropriate.

sykessta wrote: ↑18 Sep 2020, 17:29

H8Usernames wrote: ↑18 Sep 2020, 17:15

Tony1244 wrote: ↑18 Sep 2020, 17:05

Jeez, why don't we just have a division for each pound.

We do, its a long established and popular one, its called the a-side catchweight.

And under this proposed re-alignment will the fighters be mandated to fight at the limits and not catchweights? Not trying to make any jabs just wondering.
But I think adding two more weight divisions only hurt the sport. The body weight thing is a pretty cool in depth concept but if it takes adding two more weight classes to the already 17 existing ones it would be a no from me. Not only that, but moving CW or in your proposition, super CW up to 210 won't do much. Most guys competing for HW championships at least that moved up from cruiser are doing so above 210. Unless your plan is to make that transition easier for some fighters? Not sure. As EO stated most fighters who have at least fought for a HW belt in the past 10 years have done so above 220 so I think moving the CW limit to at least 220 (225 in my proposition) would be more appropriate.

Boxing organizations and state commissions should start banning any and all catchweight bouts. If the guys want to fight then they can use the existing weight divisions or find other opponents.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑18 Sep 2020, 14:35 Hell I'll give you another point.

How many truly great fights can you think from guys over 225 fighting each other?

There was Wlad vs Joshua. There was Vitali vs Lewis....and that's about it.

However a big man fighting a little man gives us. Holyfield vs Bowe trilogy, Mike Tyson's whole goddamn prime run, Ali vs Foreman, Moorer vs Foreman, Holyfield vs Foreman.

Drama. Memories that last.

All good examples on big vs smaller. But the Ali vs Foreman example is off base since George only weighed 220 at this time.

tiny_acres wrote: ↑18 Sep 2020, 17:54

gilgamesh wrote: ↑18 Sep 2020, 14:35 Hell I'll give you another point.

How many truly great fights can you think from guys over 225 fighting each other?

There was Wlad vs Joshua. There was Vitali vs Lewis....and that's about it.

However a big man fighting a little man gives us. Holyfield vs Bowe trilogy, Mike Tyson's whole goddamn prime run, Ali vs Foreman, Moorer vs Foreman, Holyfield vs Foreman.

Drama. Memories that last.

All good examples on big vs smaller. But the Ali vs Foreman example is off base since George only weighed 220 at this time.

Thank You.

We'd have a CW champ like GF @ 220 and a HW champ like Butterbean @320 and apparently that would be fine with a lot of folks. More PPVs!

Tony1244 wrote: ↑18 Sep 2020, 18:04

tiny_acres wrote: ↑18 Sep 2020, 17:54

gilgamesh wrote: ↑18 Sep 2020, 14:35 Hell I'll give you another point.

How many truly great fights can you think from guys over 225 fighting each other?

There was Wlad vs Joshua. There was Vitali vs Lewis....and that's about it.

However a big man fighting a little man gives us. Holyfield vs Bowe trilogy, Mike Tyson's whole goddamn prime run, Ali vs Foreman, Moorer vs Foreman, Holyfield vs Foreman.

Drama. Memories that last.

All good examples on big vs smaller. But the Ali vs Foreman example is off base since George only weighed 220 at this time.

Thank You.

We'd have a CW champ like GF @ 220 and a HW champ like Butterbean @320 and apparently that would be fine with a lot of folks. More PPVs!

This is a topic that I personally don't care one way or the other.
The sport has added numerous divisions over the years and will do so long after I'm dead and gone. We may not like it but eventually it will happen and the sport will continue

sykessta wrote: ↑18 Sep 2020, 16:51

Tony1244 wrote: ↑18 Sep 2020, 16:43

sykessta wrote: ↑18 Sep 2020, 16:39
My WHOLE point is that there would be more money in the CW division (at least a strong possibility) if it were shifted at least 15-25lbs north of what it is today. You are completely missing that. Not sure what else I can do to try to hammer that home any more than I have.

You said my only point of reference was Dempsey-Willard. What about Louis-Buddy Baer, Nova, or Galento? What about Frazier vs Mathis?

Mike Tyson KOd Mike Jameson. Should Jameson have been in another division? He was 237. What if Pinklon Thomas was fat and weighed 237 in lieu of 217? Andy Ruiz would love your division. The new HW division of yours would be filled with Andy Ruiz'.

If you had your way, Fury and Wilder would never have fought.

OK. Here we go again. You start by bringing up a bunch of fighters from the past and fights that are exceptions which gilgamesh has already conceded. How many smaller guys did those big guys beat before losing? I don't feel like looking it up as I did in the past because I already know the answer with 99.9% certainty. Not only that, but who the fvck is Mike Jameson? What else did he do besides lose to Mike Tyson? Nothing that I know of. So he wasn't that skilled of a fighter for his size. Guess who he probably beat multiple times. Smaller guys that may have been just as skilled but it was negated by their SMALLER SIZE. And on the Wilder Fury not, I've already went into detail on those fights and the fact that Wilder has fought above 226 8 times in his career (5 after winning the WBC strap.) plus was like 242 or something in the rematch. He could easily make 226 or above if he wanted to as evidenced by him doing so if he wanted a shot at the HW belt under the theoretical classes I laid out.

I can name examples in every decade. Michael Spinks @208 KOs Gerry Cooney @238. Guys like Jerry Quarry beat guys way bigger and he was limited.

It's not like Michael Spinks, Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield were 100 years ago and Usyk and Widler are in the present.

sykessta wrote: ↑18 Sep 2020, 16:23

gilgamesh wrote: ↑18 Sep 2020, 15:26

Tony1244 wrote: ↑18 Sep 2020, 15:15

If Syke. had his way Dempsey would have been CW champion and Willard would have been Super Duper HW champion, and they likely never would have fought.

Not just that. How many Cruiserweight Champions have ever become legit big name stars in the sport?

You can count 'em on one hand.

They're asking a large portion of fighters to be a lot less recognized or cared about than if they just kept doing what they're doing.

This. You can't get any more moronic and prove my fvcking point anymore without me typing a single word. Were you a fighter? How many times have you been hit in the head? Dropped as an infant perhaps? WHY THE FVCK DO YOU THINK THERE HAVE BEEN NO STAR CRUISERWEIGHTS? Because they are too small to win titles at HEAVYWEIGHT. Everybody KNOWS that CW is an irrelevant division that nobody cares about. How about this. Who is the last CW champion to become a HW champion and be a legit big star at heavyweight? PROVING MY POINT EXACTLY YOU MORON! My point is that moving the CW limit up to 225 will make it a RELEVANT DIVSION. I stated that in one of my earlier posts for fvcks sake! Reading comprehension! What is the last grade of school you completed??? Guys that may get title shots at HW after being titlists at CRUISERWEIGHT and not win because they are TOO SMALL NATURALLY TO COMPETE WITH THE 250LB GOLIATHS OF TODAY will be competitive with each other and other guys who don't move past CW in a more RELEVANT CRUISERWEIGHT DIVISION.

I didn't say there's been NO star Cruiserweights, but all of the ones who became stars became so as Heavyweights.

Holyfield and David Haye being the most noteworthy.

James Toney is kinda an exception because he had already been a star before ever reaching Cruiserweight.

You wouldn't be making the Cruiserweight division relevant because it never will be to anybody except the died in the wool Hardcore Boxing fans anyway. What you'd be doing is weakening the Heavyweight division, and taking away the chance for more potential Superstars to ever come along.

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑18 Sep 2020, 10:20

gilgamesh wrote: ↑18 Sep 2020, 00:29 All of you assholes wanting to move Cruiserweight up to 225.

Makes me f*cking sick.

Gil obviously doesnt believe stats and facts:

FACT: bigger means better. Valuev beats all heavyweights because he was big

FACT if it wasnt for wilder, who is skinny, there would be no hw champs under 225 in the last 30 years except holyfield, byrd, haye, jones jr, tyson, ruiz, chagaev, imbragimov, brewster, moorer

So this is 11 Champions that are supposedly completely outsized and have no chance today against modern Heavies. Even though that's exactly who they beat.

How many Heavyweight Champions have there been during this time total?

The Klitschko Brothers, Samuel Peter, Corrie Sanders, Valuev, Shannon Briggs, Anthony Joshua, Tyson Fury, Lennox Lewis, Frank Bruno, George Foreman, Bonecrusher Smith, Tony Tucker, Buster Douglas, Trevor Berbick, Riddick Bowe...

That's 17 more.

And there's 1 more Actually that you could put in the under 225 category in Michael Spinks since he was considered Lineal Champion coming into the Tyson fight.

I'm sure I'm forgetting some of the over 225 Heavies, but not that damn many. The point I'm making is for something that's supposedly so damn unfair and hard to achieve for these smaller Heavyweights, they make up a significant percentage of ALL Heavyweight Champions of the last 35 years.

Let's look at the Lineal Heavyweight Championship during this time. Not all the alphabet BS, just the one who is most considered THE MAN.

Spinks, Tyson, Douglas, Holyfield, Bowe, Holyfield, Moorer, Foreman, Briggs, Lewis, Wlad, Fury

That's 11 Champions total.

4 of them fall into the "Under 225 pounds" category, and one of those guys (Holyfield) won it twice.

Kinda weird that something that supposedly can almost never be done has in fact been done close to 50% of the time regarding Lineal Champions of the past 35 years.

You can mix and match the divisional weights as much as you like.
I don't think it's a big fix, we have been talking about this stuff for years it's not new.
The big one is the divide between Heavyweight and Cruiserweight or a small Heavyweight against a Heavyweight.
That's where the beef is.

Holyfield is the best hw over the last 30 years. No question . He was of course 7 foot and 275

The Chris Byrd thread reminded me of yet another example of where a smaller man beat much bigger men.

These critics were acting like all we had was Dempsey-Willard.

No, there are examples in every decade.

tiny_acres wrote: ↑18 Sep 2020, 18:07

Tony1244 wrote: ↑18 Sep 2020, 18:04

tiny_acres wrote: ↑18 Sep 2020, 17:54

All good examples on big vs smaller. But the Ali vs Foreman example is off base since George only weighed 220 at this time.

Thank You.

We'd have a CW champ like GF @ 220 and a HW champ like Butterbean @320 and apparently that would be fine with a lot of folks. More PPVs!

This is a topic that I personally don't care one way or the other.
The sport has added numerous divisions over the years and will do so long after I'm dead and gone. We may not like it but eventually it will happen and the sport will continue

I don't think it will continue actually. A Super Cruiserweight division will be the beginning of the end for the sport.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2020, 10:39 The Chris Byrd thread reminded me of yet another example of where a smaller man beat much bigger men.

These critics were acting like all we had was Dempsey-Willard.

No, there are examples in every decade.

Deontay Wilder knocked out Gerald Washington's big ass not to terribly long ago

Dominic Breazeale had a good bit of size on him too.

And if people act like Wilder is beating all these guys because he's SO much more skilled than them that's just ridiculous. He's not particularly skilled. Never has been.

He just hits harder.

I'm gonna repeat that.

He just HITS HARDER, than guys who outweigh him by 40 or so pounds.

So tell me again how he's so hopelessly outmatched by size?

gilgamesh wrote: ↑19 Sep 2020, 14:39

Tony1244 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2020, 10:39 The Chris Byrd thread reminded me of yet another example of where a smaller man beat much bigger men.

These critics were acting like all we had was Dempsey-Willard.

No, there are examples in every decade.

Deontay Wilder knocked out Gerald Washington's big ass not to terribly long ago

Dominic Breazeale had a good bit of size on him too.

And if people act like Wilder is beating all these guys because he's SO much more skilled than them that's just ridiculous. He's not particularly skilled. Never has been.

He just hits harder.

I'm gonna repeat that.

He just HITS HARDER, than guys who outweigh him by 40 or so pounds.

So tell me again how he's so hopelessly outmatched by size?

I'm gonna repeat this: Someone like Wilder or Usyk will be CW champion while a far less skilled guy like Breazeale will be HW champion and that would be a travesty.

Did I mention every decade has examples of smaller HWs <225 beating much bigger decent HWs.

Hell another thing.

Look at the here and now. Don't even gotta go into the past for this.

Fury is the Boss of the division right?

He's already beaten Wilder, the big dream fight everyone wants now is Fury vs Joshua. Now let's just say he beats Joshua. Aside from rematches with Wilder and Joshua. Who then would be his most interesting opponent right now aside from them?

Why the undersized Usyk of course.

Any of you guys gonna honestly tell me you'd rather see Fury fight Povetkin or Whyte or Ruiz or Breazeale more than you'd rather see him fight Usyk.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑19 Sep 2020, 16:12 Hell another thing.

Look at the here and now. Don't even gotta go into the past for this.

Fury is the Boss of the division right?

He's already beaten Wilder, the big dream fight everyone wants now is Fury vs Joshua. Now let's just say he beats Joshua. Aside from rematches with Wilder and Joshua. Who then would be his most interesting opponent right now aside from them?

Why the undersized Usyk of course.

Any of you guys gonna honestly tell me you'd rather see Fury fight Povetkin or Whyte or Ruiz or Breazeale more than you'd rather see him fight Usyk.

Usyk hasn't been tested at HW after dominating cruiser so he doesn't add to your theory. All other fighters you mentioned have already lost.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2020, 14:59

gilgamesh wrote: ↑19 Sep 2020, 14:39

Tony1244 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2020, 10:39 The Chris Byrd thread reminded me of yet another example of where a smaller man beat much bigger men.

These critics were acting like all we had was Dempsey-Willard.

No, there are examples in every decade.

Deontay Wilder knocked out Gerald Washington's big ass not to terribly long ago

Dominic Breazeale had a good bit of size on him too.

And if people act like Wilder is beating all these guys because he's SO much more skilled than them that's just ridiculous. He's not particularly skilled. Never has been.

He just hits harder.

I'm gonna repeat that.

He just HITS HARDER, than guys who outweigh him by 40 or so pounds.

So tell me again how he's so hopelessly outmatched by size?

I'm gonna repeat this: Someone like Wilder or Usyk will be CW champion while a far less skilled guy like Breazeale will be HW champion and that would be a travesty.

Did I mention every decade has examples of smaller HWs <225 beating much bigger decent HWs.

How would Brazeale be champion? Didn't we already establish that the two men who hold belts at HW currently are well above 225?

sykessta wrote: ↑19 Sep 2020, 16:34

gilgamesh wrote: ↑19 Sep 2020, 16:12 Hell another thing.

Look at the here and now. Don't even gotta go into the past for this.

Fury is the Boss of the division right?

He's already beaten Wilder, the big dream fight everyone wants now is Fury vs Joshua. Now let's just say he beats Joshua. Aside from rematches with Wilder and Joshua. Who then would be his most interesting opponent right now aside from them?

Why the undersized Usyk of course.

Any of you guys gonna honestly tell me you'd rather see Fury fight Povetkin or Whyte or Ruiz or Breazeale more than you'd rather see him fight Usyk.

Usyk hasn't been tested at HW after dominating cruiser so he doesn't add to your theory. All other fighters you mentioned have already lost.

I'm aware he hasn't been tested. Doesn't change the fact of what I said.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑19 Sep 2020, 14:39

Tony1244 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2020, 10:39 The Chris Byrd thread reminded me of yet another example of where a smaller man beat much bigger men.

These critics were acting like all we had was Dempsey-Willard.

No, there are examples in every decade.

Deontay Wilder knocked out Gerald Washington's big ass not to terribly long ago

Dominic Breazeale had a good bit of size on him too.

And if people act like Wilder is beating all these guys because he's SO much more skilled than them that's just ridiculous. He's not particularly skilled. Never has been.

He just hits harder.

I'm gonna repeat that.

He just HITS HARDER, than guys who outweigh him by 40 or so pounds.

So tell me again how he's so hopelessly outmatched by size?

What has Washington done since then? Didn't Wilder also wait 7 years for the Klits to be gone or just about? How big were they?

Clutching at straws now ain't ya. It's not the worst thing in the world to just admit you're wrong you know. I do it sometimes. I'm wrong about 4 times a year

gilgamesh wrote: ↑19 Sep 2020, 16:37

sykessta wrote: ↑19 Sep 2020, 16:34

gilgamesh wrote: ↑19 Sep 2020, 16:12 Hell another thing.

Look at the here and now. Don't even gotta go into the past for this.

Fury is the Boss of the division right?

He's already beaten Wilder, the big dream fight everyone wants now is Fury vs Joshua. Now let's just say he beats Joshua. Aside from rematches with Wilder and Joshua. Who then would be his most interesting opponent right now aside from them?

Why the undersized Usyk of course.

Any of you guys gonna honestly tell me you'd rather see Fury fight Povetkin or Whyte or Ruiz or Breazeale more than you'd rather see him fight Usyk.

Usyk hasn't been tested at HW after dominating cruiser so he doesn't add to your theory. All other fighters you mentioned have already lost.

I'm aware he hasn't been tested. Doesn't change the fact of what I said.

Do you think he would be knocking Fury, Joshua, Wilder or even Povetkin out the way he was starching guys at CW?

What's that got to do with what I said? I said he'd represent the most interesting challenge aside from Wilder or Joshua, and I'm right about that.

Whether or not he'd score a KO doesn't matter.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑17 Sep 2020, 17:27 If I was starting from scratch I'd have the weight divisions @ 120, 130 ,140 etc.

But considering there are time-honored numbers, I'd simply go with

Fly 112
Bantam 118
Feather 126
Light 135
Welter 147
Middle 160
LH 175
Cruiser 200
HW 200+

I'd get rid of all the superfluous JR and super garbage.

I would add 105 to your list, Which would make it the ORIGINAL 8 and Cruiserweight and 105 (So the Really Small Man has an opportunity to compete fairly, Lots of Talented Small People especially in Asia and Central America) So 10 Weight Divisions, it should NEVER be more than 12 Weight Divisions and only 1 World Champion Per Weight, The Average Person on the Street should be able to name ALL the Champions, as it is now 17 Weight Divisions up to 4 Major Champions per Division and growing, Even some Boxing Writers and Broadcasters can't name them all off the top of their head.