BoxRec

stujones wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 02:35

J-C wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 01:39

high tower 1 wrote: ↑29 Apr 2021, 04:47 Controversial but I’d say AJ. since the wlad fight he’s done f all. Almost at calzaghe level of boring matches.

That’s an odd one, mate. To me, he’s fought the best that’s been available at the time (Parker was unbeaten and had belt, Povetkin was to 5, Ruiz and Takam were late replacements).

Outside of Fury/Wilder, who do you think he should have fought instead?

Yes whilst I agree that his fights have had huge dull moments since Klitchsko (aside from him getting caught vs Ruiz)...you cant really fault the opponents.....with the possible exception of Whyte remstch instead of Miller

He didn't get caught by Ruiz. He was dropped four times and bailed out.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 08:56

stujones wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 02:35

J-C wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 01:39

That’s an odd one, mate. To me, he’s fought the best that’s been available at the time (Parker was unbeaten and had belt, Povetkin was to 5, Ruiz and Takam were late replacements).

Outside of Fury/Wilder, who do you think he should have fought instead?

Yes whilst I agree that his fights have had huge dull moments since Klitchsko (aside from him getting caught vs Ruiz)...you cant really fault the opponents.....with the possible exception of Whyte remstch instead of Miller

He didn't get caught by Ruiz. He was dropped four times and bailed out.

I think you know what I mean, Joshua has been utilising a largely safety first approach since Klitchsko - some people seem to think it is since Ruiz, it wasn't. Ruiz 1 fight was heading for another dull one till he floored him.

stujones wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 08:58

mickey1975 wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 08:56

stujones wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 02:35

Yes whilst I agree that his fights have had huge dull moments since Klitchsko (aside from him getting caught vs Ruiz)...you cant really fault the opponents.....with the possible exception of Whyte remstch instead of Miller

He didn't get caught by Ruiz. He was dropped four times and bailed out.

I think you know what I mean, Joshua has been utilising a largely safety first approach since Klitchsko - some people seem to think it is since Ruiz, it wasn't. Ruiz 1 fight was heading for another dull one till he floored him.

Good, because his only chance against Fury is going gung ho. He'll be embarrassed trying to box.

maverick23 wrote: ↑27 Apr 2021, 05:31

Coco wrote: ↑27 Apr 2021, 05:02

maverick23 wrote: ↑27 Apr 2021, 04:50

I’m sure he earned fine for those 20 or so fights between Eubank and Lacy but he wouldn’t have been earning anywhere near the kind of money he did against Kessler, Hopkins, Jones Jr at the tail end of his career. Fighting Mger Mkrtchyan in your 13 defence at the Cardiff Ice Rank isn’t going to make you rich!

I just wish they’d rolled the dice earlier on with him as he was an amazing fighter with genuine power until his hand troubles.

Me too, but I don't think he was badly managed.

I think JC could have been good enough to be an ATG but of course that is conjecture, and the real stain on his record is that he didn't get/ want the big fights earlier to see whether he could have cleaned up or not.

Yeah - he’s not the most poorly managed fighter but I still think he was badly managed/promoted.

He wasn’t well known, didn’t sell loads of tickets (until Lacy) and hadn’t crossed over like a fighter of his quality should have done.

9 years of (mostly) fighting nobodies or guys at the tail end of their careers.

You can of course argue that the bolded part is part of the reason he didn't get the big fights. He was a risk to the big names who didn't actually bring a lot of money with him to compensate.

It needs to be borne in mind as well that Calzaghe was Welsh, not English. Although many will protest, the English are not as keen to support a Welsh boxer as an English one (which is only fair, the reverse is also true) which means that he is only bringing a fraction of the support and tv money that a comparable English boxer would.

george groves but not sure he ever had a manager shame really

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑26 Apr 2021, 21:13 past or present, any level


for present: since bivol and smokin joe smith fought, bivols only fought lenin castillo


smith has fought hart, alvarez, and vlasov and won a title. nows he's a solidly big attraction on us tv and bivol is forgotten and on undercards like this despite widely beating him

bivol being managed like total poop. he beat smith, pascal, and stopped barrera.........yet now he's spent the last 2 years fighting lenin castillo and craig richards ...da f@ck man

worst manged in what what way though, not making money because that really is what a manger only cares about, some fighters like bivol who i rate the best and like are hard to sell comon maggie russian in america shouldnt really out sell the irish bomber a blue collar rocky type fighter gunhoe from the 1st bell to the last fight anyone , someone saying andrade aswell i liked him straight away after the rose fight but hard to sell as no one wants to fight him same with bjs , i think a poor manger is someone who puts there fighter in bad fights they cant win some one said kell brook toatly agree with that but maybe the stabbing ruined it for him as it put him out of action when he was on a crest

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 01:43

sibbo wrote: ↑29 Apr 2021, 08:19 Always thought Gary Mason was badly managed, took forever to step up, and was still fighting the likes of Terry Armstrong after nearly thirty fights,

agree, if he was half as good as people say he shouldve done a lot more. so many nothing fights on his record

Indeed, personally I rated him, but he was way too protected for far too long, and although he wasn't a fat heavyweight, he could easily have been a good stone lighter than the seventeen stone plus, that he was for most of his fights, when he was blowing out of his @rse after five or six rounds..... More time in the states would have brought him on leaps and bounds too, should really have been challenging for world titles around 89/90

brilo33 wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 10:53 george groves but not sure he ever had a manager shame really

I think Groves had a great career. What do you reckon would have been improved with different management?

J-C wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 13:50

brilo33 wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 10:53 george groves but not sure he ever had a manager shame really

Again, I'd say Groves had a lot of opportunities, probably earned plenty and largely fulfilled his potential. So can he really be one of the worst managed fighters?

he may have earned plenty but he fought a lot of the top fighters , so maybe he just earned what he was due considering the fights also he seems a smart lad and he didnt blow his dough away , cause the froch fights i think came to early for him, though he was great in the 1st but the 2nd one could of ended his carer,he fought jack in america on an under card , a boxer with his skills also the way he fought should of been massive,

J-C wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 13:50

brilo33 wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 10:53 george groves but not sure he ever had a manager shame really

I think Groves had a great career. What do you reckon would have been improved with different management?

Yeah agree.

The guy made millions for god sake. Although he did have a period where he was blamed for a lot on here.....

From me, someone like Anthony Yarde is a clearer example of a badly managed fighter than the likes of AJ or Groves

jameswilson wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 14:07

J-C wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 13:50

brilo33 wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 10:53 george groves but not sure he ever had a manager shame really

I think Groves had a great career. What do you reckon would have been improved with different management?

Yeah agree.

The guy made millions for god sake. Although he did have a period where he was blamed for a lot on here.....

not saying he never had a great career , well lets look at some one like callum smith he has probaly earned even more money, and he hasnt been in wars like groves , groves should still be fighting now

within 2.5 years of turning pro, josh had already won the ibf and beaten whyte, brezeale, and martin. it's laughable that 'insta offer deontay' somehow became framed as the 'real' fighter when it took him 10 years to fight breazeale, who btw like the great bermane stiverne reamins a top 3 guy he's beaten, while arguably not even being top 8 for josh

josh's matchmaking remains the most consistently strong in the division and he makes mega money

the knock on his management will be if he never gets a fury or wilder fight. i think fury happens this year though


beaten:

cornish
wlad
whyte
pov
parker
ruiz
pulev
takam
martin
breazeale

simply no other hw around has this depth of record

J-C wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 14:10 From me, someone like Anthony Yarde is a clearer example of a badly managed fighter than the likes of AJ or Groves

really i remember seing yarde wining at the copperbox thinking world champ possible , i dont think he is that great really he got to fight kovalev, i mean how much further could he of gone, i think kell brook was badly managed

high tower 1 wrote: ↑29 Apr 2021, 04:47 Controversial but I’d say AJ. since the wlad fight he’s done f all. Almost at calzaghe level of boring matches.

aj prints money, his caeer was set out before his first fight, i class his magerment as the top the best , face it he has never really fought any one that should of beat him and he has made millions and is a world wide name

brilo33 wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 14:36

J-C wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 14:10 From me, someone like Anthony Yarde is a clearer example of a badly managed fighter than the likes of AJ or Groves

really i remember seing yarde wining at the copperbox thinking world champ possible , i dont think he is that great really he got to fight kovalev, i mean how much further could he of gone, i think kell brook was badly managed

But the way his management chose to match him up to that point meant he was completely unprepared to fight Kovalev (who, arguably, was there for the taking). And that was clearly a conscious decision too: fighting complete non-threats and then hoping he could jump up several levels at once.

J-C wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 14:44

brilo33 wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 14:36

J-C wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 14:10 From me, someone like Anthony Yarde is a clearer example of a badly managed fighter than the likes of AJ or Groves

really i remember seing yarde wining at the copperbox thinking world champ possible , i dont think he is that great really he got to fight kovalev, i mean how much further could he of gone, i think kell brook was badly managed

But the way his management chose to match him up to that point meant he was completely unprepared to fight Kovalev (who, arguably, was there for the taking). And that was clearly a conscious decision too: fighting complete non-threats and then hoping he could jump up several levels at once.

yea i get that, that is why i was asking what classed as bad management, but that is the same point i was making with groves v froch froch nearly killed him in the 2nd fight, if groves would of fought froch 1st fight , 2 years older than he did i reckon he would of won , boxers like eubank jr are more famous than groves and its not right groves should be up there with the best boxers the country has ever had

brilo33 wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 14:51

J-C wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 14:44

brilo33 wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 14:36

really i remember seing yarde wining at the copperbox thinking world champ possible , i dont think he is that great really he got to fight kovalev, i mean how much further could he of gone, i think kell brook was badly managed

But the way his management chose to match him up to that point meant he was completely unprepared to fight Kovalev (who, arguably, was there for the taking). And that was clearly a conscious decision too: fighting complete non-threats and then hoping he could jump up several levels at once.

yea i get that, that is why i was asking what classed as bad management, but that is the same point i was making with groves v froch froch nearly killed him in the 2nd fight, if groves would of fought froch 1st fight , 2 years older than he did i reckon he would of won , boxers like eubank jr are more famous than groves and its not right groves should be up there with the best boxers the country has ever had

I think, in that case, maybe we just differ on the rating of Groves. I enjoyed his career, liked him as a fighter but clearly don't rate him as highly as you do. So I don't see his career as this massive missed opportunity.

groves just wasnt quite tough enough to win at the highest level

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 15:47 groves just wasnt quite tough enough to win at the highest level

i agree i dont think groves is the best super mid , poor managment put him in with froch to early is what iam saying , de gale most brutal fight was jack as champ, groves had to go over there like a bum to fight him

I’m losing faith in this forum. Groves was handled perfectly, mainly by himself.

You can be badly managed and still be successful..

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 16:42 You can be badly managed and still be successful..

Negotiating the biggest fight of his era wasn’t poor management.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 16:36 I’m losing faith in this forum. Groves was handled perfectly, mainly by himself.

You haven’t lost it already?

mickey1975 wrote: ↑30 Apr 2021, 16:36 I’m losing faith in this forum. Groves was handled perfectly, mainly by himself.

how though he got smashed in his 2 nd biggest fight , and by laws of averages he shouldnt of come back from that at all