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Re: Who had a better WBC reign - Vitali Klitschko or Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Oct 2021, 06:42
by DrDuke
Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 06:38
Talking of Vitali, I’ve always thought he’d be a terrible matchup for Fury. Vitali had an iron chin with pretty high volume, wasn’t afraid of getting hit and was obviously a very big lump himself. I think he would have beaten Fury.
Vitali could have a better chin, but he wasn't a one punch banger. Actually, it's a topic to argue on, who had more power out of these two. In addition to everything, Fury is faster, more agile and versatile than Vitali. Being smaller in numbers, Fury's resume is better. Fury is a bad matchup for Vitali.
Re: Who had a better WBC reign - Vitali Klitschko or Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Oct 2021, 06:52
by Enlightened-One
Vitali was a much better fighter than Wilder.
I think he beats the version of Fury that just beat Wilder.
Re: Who had a better WBC reign - Vitali Klitschko or Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Oct 2021, 06:56
by Enlightened-One
DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 06:19Since when we agreed that Tyson Fury did not beat the peak version of Wladimir Klitschko?
DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 04:23Enlightened-One wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 04:20I don't think Tyson Fury beat the best version of Wladimir Klitschko.
Course not the best version of Klitschko...
If you feel I've misquoted you, then provide a simple "yes" or "no" answer to the following question...
Do you feel that Tyson Fury beat the peak version of Wladimir Klitschko?
Re: Who had a better WBC reign - Vitali Klitschko or Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Oct 2021, 07:03
by DrDuke
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 06:56
DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 06:19Since when we agreed that Tyson Fury did not beat the peak version of Wladimir Klitschko?
DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 04:23Enlightened-One wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 04:20I don't think Tyson Fury beat the best version of Wladimir Klitschko.
Course not the best version of Klitschko...
If you feel I've misquoted you, then provide a simple "yes" or "no" answer to the following question...
Do you feel that Tyson Fury beat the peak version of Wladimir Klitschko?
No more pathetic misinterpretation could be found.
Re: Who had a better WBC reign - Vitali Klitschko or Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Oct 2021, 07:16
by Enlightened-One
DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 07:03
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 06:56
DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 06:19Since when we agreed that Tyson Fury did not beat the peak version of Wladimir Klitschko?
DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 04:23Course not the best version of Klitschko...
If you feel I've misquoted you, then provide a simple "yes" or "no" answer to the following question...
Do you feel that Tyson Fury beat the peak version of Wladimir Klitschko?
No more pathetic misinterpretation could be found.
I've asked the same question at least three times... and you won't answer it!
Just for fun, I'll ask it again...
Do you feel that Tyson Fury beat the peak version of Wladimir Klitschko?
Re: Who had a better WBC reign - Vitali Klitschko or Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Oct 2021, 07:22
by DrDuke
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 07:16
DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 07:03
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 06:56
If you feel I've misquoted you, then provide a simple "yes" or "no" answer to the following question...
Do you feel that Tyson Fury beat the peak version of Wladimir Klitschko?
No more pathetic misinterpretation could be found.
I've asked the same question at least three times... and you won't answer it!
Just for fun, I'll ask it again...
Do you feel that Tyson Fury beat the peak version of Wladimir Klitschko?
You didn't provide any decent arguments for Klitschko not being in prime in the Fury bout, so you can't refute Klitschko's being in prime back then, that's why you can't rightfully tell that he wasn't, while your question remains invalid.
Re: Who had a better WBC reign - Vitali Klitschko or Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Oct 2021, 07:24
by Enlightened-One
DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 07:22
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 07:16
DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 07:03
No more pathetic misinterpretation could be found.
I've asked the same question at least three times... and you won't answer it!
Just for fun, I'll ask it again...
Do you feel that Tyson Fury beat the peak version of Wladimir Klitschko?
You didn't provide any decent arguments for Klitschko not being in prime in the Fury bout, so you can't refute Klitschko's being in prime back then, that's why you can't rightfully tell that he wasn't, while your question remains invalid.
I only requested a "yes" or "no" reply, but you can't bring yourself to do it, can you?
Do you feel that Tyson Fury beat the peak version of Wladimir Klitschko?
Why are you deflecting? Why are you so terrified about providing a "yes" or "no" answer?
If you refuse to answer, then I have to assume you seriously believe that Tyson Fury defeated the prime version of Wladimir Klitschko!
Re: Who had a better WBC reign - Vitali Klitschko or Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Oct 2021, 07:26
by DrDuke
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 07:24
DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 07:22
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 07:16
I've asked the same question at least three times... and you won't answer it!
Just for fun, I'll ask it again...
Do you feel that Tyson Fury beat the peak version of Wladimir Klitschko?
You didn't provide any decent arguments for Klitschko not being in prime in the Fury bout, so you can't refute Klitschko's being in prime back then, that's why you can't rightfully tell that he wasn't, while your question remains invalid.
I only requested a "yes" or "no" reply, but you can't bring yourself to do it, can you?
Do you feel that Tyson Fury beat the peak version of Wladimir Klitschko?
Why are you deflecting? Why are you so terrified about providing a "yes" or "no" answer?
EO b!tching about someone not giving "yes" or "no" answer is a masterpiece.
Re: Who had a better WBC reign - Vitali Klitschko or Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Oct 2021, 07:29
by Enlightened-One
DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 07:26
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 07:24
DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 07:22
You didn't provide any decent arguments for Klitschko not being in prime in the Fury bout, so you can't refute Klitschko's being in prime back then, that's why you can't rightfully tell that he wasn't, while your question remains invalid.
I only requested a "yes" or "no" reply, but you can't bring yourself to do it, can you?
Do you feel that Tyson Fury beat the peak version of Wladimir Klitschko?
Why are you deflecting? Why are you so terrified about providing a "yes" or "no" answer?
EO b!tching about someone not giving "yes" or "no" answer is a masterpiece.
OK, I'll ask you a different question...
Why are you seriously convinced that Tyson Fury defeated the prime version of Wladimir Klitschko?
Re: Who had a better WBC reign - Vitali Klitschko or Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Oct 2021, 07:34
by DrDuke
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 07:29
DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 07:26
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 07:24
I only requested a "yes" or "no" reply, but you can't bring yourself to do it, can you?
Do you feel that Tyson Fury beat the peak version of Wladimir Klitschko?
Why are you deflecting? Why are you so terrified about providing a "yes" or "no" answer?
EO b!tching about someone not giving "yes" or "no" answer is a masterpiece.
OK, I'll ask you a different question...
Why are you seriously convinced that Tyson Fury defeated the prime version of Wladimir Klitschko?
I'm not seriously convinced in it.
Why is it possible to think about something only in a one way or completetly opposite one?
Re: Who had a better WBC reign - Vitali Klitschko or Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Oct 2021, 07:38
by Enlightened-One
DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 07:34
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 07:29
DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 07:26
EO b!tching about someone not giving "yes" or "no" answer is a masterpiece.
OK, I'll ask you a different question...
Why are you seriously convinced that Tyson Fury defeated the prime version of Wladimir Klitschko?
I'm not seriously convinced in it.
Why is it possible to think about something only in a one way or completetly opposite one?
Instead of repeatedly avoiding the simple question I asked, you deflected.
You could have provided a simple “yes”, “no” or “not sure” type answer.
And I would have accepted it.
It’s fine for us to disagree. Anyway, I'm bored of this topic, have a nice day!
Re: Who had a better WBC reign - Vitali Klitschko or Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Oct 2021, 07:48
by DrDuke
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 07:38
DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 07:34
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 07:29
OK, I'll ask you a different question...
Why are you seriously convinced that Tyson Fury defeated the prime version of Wladimir Klitschko?
I'm not seriously convinced in it.
Why is it possible to think about something only in a one way or completetly opposite one?
Instead of repeatedly avoiding the simple question I asked, you deflected.
You could have provided a simple “yes”, “no” or “not sure” type answer.
And I would have accepted it.
It’s fine for us to disagree. Anyway, I'm bored of this topic, have a nice day!
I have just provided broader evaluations! It seems like you refused to read them properly!
Re: Who had a better WBC reign - Vitali Klitschko or Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Oct 2021, 12:55
by Cyclops
Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 19:31
Imagine underachier corrie sanders being a hof best win
I think that's the point. For a consensus HOF heavyweight champ, Vitali's resume is very thin. So the much maligned Wilder resume is comparable. Vitali's best 'win' is a loss to Lennox Lewis, where he showed his balls and determination. Wilder's stock might be improved by fighting on fumes for most of the final fight in the trilogy, especially if Fury does go on to beat Usyk.
Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 19:31Vitali was odds favourite over peter
Was he? I could have sworn that a lot of people thought he was too injury ridden to make such a comeback and that Peter would beat him. I don't mind being wrong. What were the odds?
Re: Who had a better WBC reign - Vitali Klitschko or Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Oct 2021, 13:08
by DrDuke
Cyclops wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 12:55
Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 19:31
Imagine underachier corrie sanders being a hof best win
I think that's the point. For a consensus HOF heavyweight champ, Vitali's resume is very thin. So the much maligned Wilder resume is comparable. Vitali's best 'win' is a loss to Lennox Lewis, where he showed his balls and determination. Wilder's stock might be improved by fighting on fumes for most of the final fight in the trilogy, especially if Fury does go on to beat Usyk.
Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 19:31Vitali was odds favourite over peter
Was he? I could have sworn that a lot of people thought he was too injury ridden to make such a comeback and that Peter would beat him. I don't mind being wrong. What were the odds?
Vitali was inducted into the HoF because of the Klitschko phenomenon. The whole World knows, that the Klitschko brothers were whooping everyone around during their era, but only hardcore boxing fans can notice, that it was Wlad, who took the vast majority of the quality opposition. Vitali was handling the remains.
Also, Vitali had many defences of the major belt, but with all circumstances the WBC strap was like a minor one at that time.
On the other hand, it's tough to imagine Vitali not doing the same, if he was on his brother's place.
Re: Who had a better WBC reign - Vitali Klitschko or Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Oct 2021, 13:21
by adislav123
nobody would've beaten vitali when he was around bar lennox.
who'd have won that fight if not stoppedwill be a discussion forever.
u can compare their 'reigns'. wilder's was a bad joke.
vitali the superior boxer by a mile.
Re: Who had a better WBC reign - Vitali Klitschko or Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Oct 2021, 14:09
by joshj909
Is there a long heavyweight reign that you would consider to be worse than Wilder's?
Re: Who had a better WBC reign - Vitali Klitschko or Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Oct 2021, 14:11
by Onetimeonly
Bout the same.
Re: Who had a better WBC reign - Vitali Klitschko or Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Oct 2021, 14:15
by Cyclops
adislav123 wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 13:21
nobody would've beaten vitali when he was around bar lennox.
who'd have won that fight if not stoppedwill be a discussion forever.
u can compare their 'reigns'. wilder's was a bad joke.
vitali the superior boxer by a mile.
Yeah but it
was stopped. So it's just a discussion.
Chis Bird also has a win over him... I mean, it was because Vitali's arm went. Just saying. Somebody else beat him.
Re: Who had a better WBC reign - Vitali Klitschko or Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Oct 2021, 15:21
by DrDuke
joshj909 wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 14:09
Is there a long heavyweight reign that you would consider to be worse than Wilder's?
John Ruiz, Valuev.
Re: Who had a better WBC reign - Vitali Klitschko or Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Oct 2021, 16:09
by pound per pound
DrDuke wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 15:29
These two are in a similar situation. Both had prolonged WBC reigns. Neither was an inarguable man of the division.
Vitali's best scalps for the title:
- Corrie Sanders
- Samuel Peter
- Derek Chisora
- Tomasz Adamek
- Chris Arreola
Wilder's best scalps for the title:
- Luis Ortiz X2
- Bermane Stiverne X2
- Dominic Breazeale
- Chris Arreola
That's how I see it, based on this I pick Vitali. Ortiz' and Stiverne's resumes are thinner than Sanders' and Chisora's ones. The others are about the same. Arreola was fresher against Vitali.
What do you think?
Vitali beat quite a few raked guys. You forgot Hide, Johnson, soils, ect... Wilder's wins were old men and not very good to begin with.
Re: Who had a better WBC reign - Vitali Klitschko or Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Oct 2021, 16:16
by DrDuke
pound per pound wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 16:09
DrDuke wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 15:29
These two are in a similar situation. Both had prolonged WBC reigns. Neither was an inarguable man of the division.
Vitali's best scalps for the title:
- Corrie Sanders
- Samuel Peter
- Derek Chisora
- Tomasz Adamek
- Chris Arreola
Wilder's best scalps for the title:
- Luis Ortiz X2
- Bermane Stiverne X2
- Dominic Breazeale
- Chris Arreola
That's how I see it, based on this I pick Vitali. Ortiz' and Stiverne's resumes are thinner than Sanders' and Chisora's ones. The others are about the same. Arreola was fresher against Vitali.
What do you think?
Vitali beat quite a few raked guys. You forgot Hide, Johnson, soils, ect... Wilder's wins were old men and not very good to begin with.
Had Hide, Johnson and Solis beat any legit top contender? There wasn't even a fight against Solis. The guy came out with an injury aiming for a paycheck and was broken in the first intense episode.
Re: Who had a better WBC reign - Vitali Klitschko or Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Oct 2021, 17:15
by Cyclops
DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 16:16
pound per pound wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 16:09
DrDuke wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 15:29
These two are in a similar situation. Both had prolonged WBC reigns. Neither was an inarguable man of the division.
Vitali's best scalps for the title:
- Corrie Sanders
- Samuel Peter
- Derek Chisora
- Tomasz Adamek
- Chris Arreola
Wilder's best scalps for the title:
- Luis Ortiz X2
- Bermane Stiverne X2
- Dominic Breazeale
- Chris Arreola
That's how I see it, based on this I pick Vitali. Ortiz' and Stiverne's resumes are thinner than Sanders' and Chisora's ones. The others are about the same. Arreola was fresher against Vitali.
What do you think?
Vitali beat quite a few raked guys. You forgot Hide, Johnson, soils, ect... Wilder's wins were old men and not very good to begin with.
Had Hide, Johnson and Solis beat any legit top contender? There wasn't even a fight against Solis. The guy came out with an injury aiming for a paycheck and was broken in the first intense episode.
I'd forgotten just how shite Solis' professional record was. His amateur record reads something like a who's who of wins over very good future cruiserweight / heavyweight champions or contenders: David Haye, Luis Ortiz, Kubrat Pulev, Yoan Pablo Hernandez, Sultan Ibragamov... Then as a pro he's just a fat pig fighting guys like Chaucey Welliver and Julius Long. That massive gold Spongebog Squarepants chain he had must surely have ended up in pawn shop in Miami now?
Re: Who had a better WBC reign - Vitali Klitschko or Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Oct 2021, 17:29
by joshj909
DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 15:21
joshj909 wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 14:09
Is there a long heavyweight reign that you would consider to be worse than Wilder's?
John Ruiz, Valuev.
Arguable. Also don't think either had a particularly long reign in comparison.
Re: Who had a better WBC reign - Vitali Klitschko or Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Oct 2021, 17:36
by Jeff_lacy_ko
joshj909 wrote: ↑11 Oct 2021, 14:09
Is there a long heavyweight reign that you would consider to be worse than Wilder's?
Ruiz?
Re: Who had a better WBC reign - Vitali Klitschko or Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Oct 2021, 17:49
by thomasjkelley
