BoxRec

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑03 Feb 2023, 10:54 When Wilder landed with something, Fury went down.

DrDuke wrote: ↑03 Feb 2023, 11:13

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑03 Feb 2023, 10:54 When Wilder landed with something, Fury went down.

It seems you were too busy with mastubating on the Ali posters, while trying to watch the Fury-Wilder fights, especially the second one.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑03 Feb 2023, 13:59 Oh, the second fight. That's the one where Fury didn't get decked.
Have you had a chance to buy Fury a Valentine's present yet?

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑03 Feb 2023, 10:54 Not saying that the Bowe that fought Golota would have beaten Fury. However, the Bowe before that would have easily. Against a prime Bowe, Fury would be fighting an opponent far better than anyone he has ever fought. Fury has never fought a great fighter. Bowe has. Bowe was much more aggressive and talented than Wilder. When Wilder landed with something, Fury went down. Fury would getting hit much, much more than he ever has.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑07 Feb 2023, 21:26 In his big fights against Wilder, he got decked a total of four times. Given Wilder's limited skills, and the low amount of punches that he threw, that is a lot.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑07 Feb 2023, 21:26 In his big fights against Wilder, he got decked a total of four times. Given Wilder's limited skills, and the low amount of punches that he threw, that is a lot.

Bodyshot3 wrote: ↑08 Feb 2023, 16:01 We still need to get over the getting dropped and by whom fixtation, I would politely suggest.
Fighters do go down - sometimes against way lesser guys - but they win and they often win handsomely.

Cooper dropped Ali like a sack of spuds but Ali was always leagues above Henry and that trip to the canvas does not really undercut what Ali achieved or cast any doubts on what he could do.

McClellan sent Benn sprawling but Benn got up and did something pretty brutal and tragic in return.

Just because an elite fighter goes down does not mean they're fatally flawed or massively over-rated.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑08 Feb 2023, 19:08 joe louis put on his arse too, even by tony galento

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑08 Feb 2023, 00:49

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑07 Feb 2023, 21:26 In his big fights against Wilder, he got decked a total of four times. Given Wilder's limited skills, and the low amount of punches that he threw, that is a lot.

Hmm... I remember years ago on this website how somebody posted a few articles from the Argentinian newspapers making a big fuss about how Oscar Bonavena was robbed of knockdowns in his fight with Muhammad Ali.

I'm of the opinion that they were indeed flash knockdowns and not slips because Bonavena hit Ali right on the button and Ali fell forward, but got up before the referee could count, "One!"

Ironically this same referee never gave Bonavena standing eight counts and never told Ali to go to his neutral corner, so there seems to be some impartiality going on. Joe Frazier saw the fight and declared that he gave every single round to Bonavena with the exception of the last round.

Anyways, getting dropped four times in a combined thirty rounds of boxing is nothing especially when you figure the man putting you down statistically was one of the greatest heavyweight punchers of all time. I venture to say that Deontay Wilder hit every bit as hard as Earnie Shavers and if anything was more dangerous than Earnie because he was so reckless and because Wilder was so much rangier than Earnie.

I don't particularly like Wilder at all but any man who can throw haymakers for 12 rounds has to be a pretty well conditioned guy to be able to do so. Even though he lost the trilogy I think Wilder's stock went up as a fighter because he demonstrated tremendous heart and toughness.

I'm reminded a bit of Larry Merchant discussing Max Baer and saying strictly on styles Max Baer would have presented problems for Muhammad Ali because he was a big swarming heavyweight with a lot of power. And I've always said in my opinion that Wilder is essentially the 21st century version of Max Baer.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑08 Feb 2023, 23:18 Not necessarily true. I have seen many examples of referees automatically saying, "One! Two! Three!," etc.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑09 Feb 2023, 13:06

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑08 Feb 2023, 23:18 Not necessarily true. I have seen many examples of referees automatically saying, "One! Two! Three!," etc.

When was the last fight you watched where you heard the referee count one.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑09 Feb 2023, 16:21

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑09 Feb 2023, 13:06

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑08 Feb 2023, 23:18 Not necessarily true. I have seen many examples of referees automatically saying, "One! Two! Three!," etc.

When was the last fight you watched where you heard the referee count one.

There's one example. He clearly says, "One! Two!"

Teddy's Toupee wrote: ↑09 Feb 2023, 17:46

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑09 Feb 2023, 16:21

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑09 Feb 2023, 13:06

When was the last fight you watched where you heard the referee count one.

There's one example. He clearly says, "One! Two!"

He clearly starts the count at "two".

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑08 Feb 2023, 23:18 Not necessarily true. I have seen many examples of referees automatically saying, "One! Two! Three!," etc. Yes there is a timekeeper at ringside whenever somebody hits the deck but it's not necessarily at the discretion of the referee to have to refer to that time keeper about anything because a referees count and a timekeepers count is two completely different things.

That's how myths start in boxing like the famous Long Count between Jack Dempsey and Gene Tunney where the referees count and the timekeepers count were different. Or for a more modern example when James Douglas hit the deck against Mike Tyson and Don King wanted to sue saying there was some sort of Long Count.

Which brings me back to another fiasco in boxing history which was the rematch between Muhammad Ali and Sonny Liston where Nat Fleischer of Ring magazine told Joe Walcott that Liston was down for more than 10 seconds which is why the fight ended so bizarrely because Muhammad Ali and Sonny Liston were trading blows again after Walcott already said that Sonny Liston was fit to continue because he beat Walcott's count.

I'm still sticking with the Argentinian press on this and I've seen the fight and imho there was flash knocked downs cuz Ali got hit right in the mouth and fell forward twice in that fight but got up so quickly the referee never made a count and ruled them both incorrectly as slips.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑09 Feb 2023, 13:06

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑08 Feb 2023, 23:18 Not necessarily true. I have seen many examples of referees automatically saying, "One! Two! Three!," etc.

When was the last fight you watched where you heard the referee count one.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑09 Feb 2023, 22:46 Another example of a referee...



@ 26:10....

And to my mind this is the real controversy concerning the rematch between Jack Dempsey and Gene Tunney. In the round prior the referee told Dempsey to go to a neutral corner but in the following round the moment Dempsey's knee hit the canvas the referee counted, "One!"

As for Bonavena...



Bonavena lands a left hook and Muhammad Ali hits the canvas, but gets up almost immediately and the referee calls it a slip. But Muhammad Ali was clearly hurt in this round because the Argentinian strongman had Muhammad Ali's legs buckling especially near the end of the round.

In my view if a man lands a punch and a man hits the canvas it's a knockdown it's not a damn slip, even if he slipped, because the punch caused the slip. It was the same left hook that would give Muhammad Ali a world of problems when he would fight Joe Frazier next and coincidentally in that fight there was also a few so-called slips that could have been knock downs.



@ round 11, for example. Ali got hit, did a slight chicken dance, fell, got up, and the referee called it a slip. Ali also falls into the ropes, and would've hit canvas had it not been for the ropes which goes to show that Ali was already hurt from the onset of the round which gives credibility to the "slip" being actually a knockdown.

Ali had such great recuperating powers and reflexes though he was able to get up pretty damn fast which is why I think he got away with people thinking it was slips when in reality it was knock downs. Even that terrific shot in the 15th round that put him flat on his back he got up relatively fast.

Anyways this is one of those things we are just going to have to agree to disagree on because I keep forgetting that as far as your concerned Muhammad Ali was Superman and could never lose even though he really did at different times in his career and there were many times where he looked vulnerable against a wide variety of opponents.



The man was not invincible otherwise a man like Eddie Futch wouldn't have been able to figure out two different methods to be able to defeat Muhammad Ali. The man was not untouchable otherwise Cus D'Amato would not have told it straight to his face that he would lose to Joe Frazier and explained exactly the reason why Muhammad Ali would lose.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑09 Feb 2023, 22:46 Another example of a referee...



@ 26:10....

And to my mind this is the real controversy concerning the rematch between Jack Dempsey and Gene Tunney. In the round prior the referee told Dempsey to go to a neutral corner but in the following round the moment Dempsey's knee hit the canvas the referee counted, "One!"

As for Bonavena...



Bonavena lands a left hook and Muhammad Ali hits the canvas, but gets up almost immediately and the referee calls it a slip. But Muhammad Ali was clearly hurt in this round because the Argentinian strongman had Muhammad Ali's legs buckling especially near the end of the round.

In my view if a man lands a punch and a man hits the canvas it's a knockdown it's not a damn slip, even if he slipped, because the punch caused the slip. It was the same left hook that would give Muhammad Ali a world of problems when he would fight Joe Frazier next and coincidentally in that fight there was also a few so-called slips that could have been knock downs.



@ round 11, for example. Ali got hit, did a slight chicken dance, fell, got up, and the referee called it a slip. Ali also falls into the ropes, and would've hit canvas had it not been for the ropes which goes to show that Ali was already hurt from the onset of the round which gives credibility to the "slip" being actually a knockdown.

Ali had such great recuperating powers and reflexes though he was able to get up pretty damn fast which is why I think he got away with people thinking it was slips when in reality it was knock downs. Even that terrific shot in the 15th round that put him flat on his back he got up relatively fast.

Anyways this is one of those things we are just going to have to agree to disagree on because I keep forgetting that as far as your concerned Muhammad Ali was Superman and could never lose even though he really did at different times in his career and there were many times where he looked vulnerable against a wide variety of opponents.



The man was not invincible otherwise a man like Eddie Futch wouldn't have been able to figure out two different methods to be able to defeat Muhammad Ali. The man was not untouchable otherwise Cus D'Amato would not have told it straight to his face that he would lose to Joe Frazier and explained exactly the reason why Muhammad Ali would lose.