BoxRec

Posted: **04 Jan 2024, 21:10**

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑04 Jan 2024, 20:41 he will be neither as good as his loverz ssay if he wins, nor as bad as the haterz say if he loses, but each side will certainly get more ammuncation if the result goes their way

I consider myself a converted fan. Unfortunately, he converted me the opposite way

Fury lover > disappointed fan > indifferent bystander > angry onlooker

Though, some might say jilted lovers are often the most bitter

Posted: **04 Jan 2024, 21:54**

tonyevs wrote: ↑04 Jan 2024, 14:09 I guess if he wipes the floor with Usyk then that solidifies him as the best of his era. If he then beats Zhang in style that helps loads; Hrg has a win over Zhang so Fury would have to spank Zhang in style ... beating Joshua is tainted now because Joshua is seen as well past it by most.

But, the thing is he had life and death with Wilder 2 out of 3 times. And Parker just spanked Wilder so its very unlikely Fury is going to show himself to be great now is it.

If Fury gets the win over Usyk he will be doing so in a very ugly fashion that won`t elevate him to the ATG levels.

The Wilder who Fury beat bore no resemblance to the ghost of Wilder who Parker beat.

If beating Joshua is tainted now where does Usyk stand in all this ?

Posted: **04 Jan 2024, 22:10**

the problem with being a can crusher - when guys like parker beat you and you have hardly any wins to say 'but i used to be way superior to him, see, i beat all these guys better than him!'

wilder easily blasted out helenius in the fight before parker beat him. that was about his average level of victim during his peak title reign too - around the gerry washington/rob helenius level. it wasnt like we saw him markedly drop his performance prior to joe beating him. this is a guy who while a fresh fighter in his reign struggled with art szpilka. del chisora would be favoured over most of the challengers he beat and already had his way with 2 of them + malik scott

tbf he's at the age where you'd expect a fighter to slow, but there is really very little hard evidence that he was ever a lot better than joe parker. that's what happens when you have 40+ wins and guys like dom breazeale and blobby bermane are among the best few guys youve beat. you dont have much to fall back on once the losses come and people are no longer awed by how many cans you destroyed

quality will hold a fighter's reputation up when he starts losing, quantity not so much

Posted: **05 Jan 2024, 02:17**

jwfg wrote: ↑04 Jan 2024, 15:46
gilgamesh wrote: ↑04 Jan 2024, 12:43
jwfg wrote: ↑04 Jan 2024, 10:41

What do you think his legacy will be if he loses back-to-back Usyk fights?

On another subject, your name came up on History Play the other night.
I'm not sure what History play is. If he loses back to back Usyk fights he'll be considered the 2nd best Heavyweight of his era in all likelihood.
History play is a subscription service of the History Channel. As I say, your name got a mention, fascinating.

I assume because of "The Epic of Gilgamesh" and how it's the earliest known piece of Literature known to mankind.

Posted: **05 Jan 2024, 02:21**

Finkel wrote: ↑04 Jan 2024, 19:59 @Gilgamesh, sorry, that turned into a rant.

To be sympathetic to your position, as a fan, I think Fury is a lock for the HOF. The Klitschko win in Germany, the Wilder trilogy, undisputed with Usyk. It will be a career with some fabulous moments. But that is not ATG 10 when taken in context, not for me.

If he beats Usyk convincingly. While you personally may not rank him in your Top 10, you'd have a hard time making a good case as to why not.

To me the Ngannou fight didn't hurt his legacy at all. It didn't boost it any, but it didn't damage it either.

Now if Ngannou winds up fighting 3 more Boxing matches, and winding up with an 0-4 record. Yes, then you can say in retrospect it looks bad for Fury to have struggled so much with him, but I don't suspect that'll be the case.

That being said. I suspect Usyk can and will beat him.

Posted: **05 Jan 2024, 02:57**

CaptainSpacerod wrote: ↑04 Jan 2024, 21:54
tonyevs wrote: ↑04 Jan 2024, 14:09 I guess if he wipes the floor with Usyk then that solidifies him as the best of his era. If he then beats Zhang in style that helps loads; Hrg has a win over Zhang so Fury would have to spank Zhang in style ... beating Joshua is tainted now because Joshua is seen as well past it by most.

But, the thing is he had life and death with Wilder 2 out of 3 times. And Parker just spanked Wilder so its very unlikely Fury is going to show himself to be great now is it.

If Fury gets the win over Usyk he will be doing so in a very ugly fashion that won`t elevate him to the ATG levels.
The Wilder who Fury beat bore no resemblance to the ghost of Wilder who Parker beat.

If beating Joshua is tainted now where does Usyk stand in all this ?

But Wilder actually did bear a very good resemblance to the guy who Fury beat. I suggest you take a look at pretty much any of the 3 fights they had.
Wilder looked as shlt in all of those too. If Wilder had managed to land that big punch in the 10th round on Parker and folded him, most would be saying he was back to his best too.

Usyk was a large part of tainting Joshuas standing. 2 consecutive defeats can do that to a fighter some considered the best.
That leaves Usyk as being seen as the top guy in his division for most.

Posted: **05 Jan 2024, 03:12**

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑04 Jan 2024, 22:10 the problem with being a can crusher - when guys like parker beat you and you have hardly any wins to say 'but i used to be way superior to him, see, i beat all these guys better than him!'

wilder easily blasted out helenius in the fight before parker beat him. that was about his average level of victim during his peak title reign too - around the gerry washington/rob helenius level. it wasnt like we saw him markedly drop his performance prior to joe beating him. this is a guy who while a fresh fighter in his reign struggled with art szpilka. del chisora would be favoured over most of the challengers he beat and already had his way with 2 of them + malik scott

tbf he's at the age where you'd expect a fighter to slow, but there is really very little hard evidence that he was ever a lot better than joe parker. that's what happens when you have 40+ wins and guys like dom breazeale and blobby bermane are among the best few guys youve beat. you dont have much to fall back on once the losses come and people are no longer awed by how many cans you destroyed

quality will hold a fighter's reputation up when he starts losing, quantity not so much

And this is exactly what intreagues me about Fury's legacy going into the Usyk fight. He has had a long career, is now 35, and yet if he loses and loses bad, it will all come tumbling down for him. All the talk and all the hype over the years will no longer stack up, the age excuse will do him no good, he could have and should have been more consistent with the quality of his opponents during his prime years but it is all on the line now going into this fight. Usyk is absolutely a career defining fight for him, in my opinion.

Posted: **05 Jan 2024, 03:55**

It's without doubt a career defining fight for Fury. And this where Usyk gets a bit of an easier ride.

Usyk dominated the cruiserweight division, and is stepping up and seen as giving his heavyweight opponents big advantages over him. If he loses to Fury it will be seen as the size advantage and not skill/heart was the deciding factor.
Whereas if Fury loses he did so to a smaller guy - and as they say, a good big un should beat a good little un. So by default Fury will be forever seen as not a big un.

Posted: **05 Jan 2024, 05:16**

tonyevs wrote: ↑05 Jan 2024, 03:55 Usyk dominated the cruiserweight division, and is stepping up and seen as giving his heavyweight opponents big advantages over him. If he loses to Fury it will be seen as the size advantage and not skill/heart was the deciding factor.

If he loses to Fury, he loses. Usyk has 3 HW belts, it's too late for excuses.

Posted: **05 Jan 2024, 05:53**

gilgamesh wrote: ↑05 Jan 2024, 02:17
jwfg wrote: ↑04 Jan 2024, 15:46
gilgamesh wrote: ↑04 Jan 2024, 12:43

I'm not sure what History play is. If he loses back to back Usyk fights he'll be considered the 2nd best Heavyweight of his era in all likelihood.
History play is a subscription service of the History Channel. As I say, your name got a mention, fascinating.
I assume because of "The Epic of Gilgamesh" and how it's the earliest known piece of Literature known to mankind.

There I was, innocently watching a cool documentary and it brought me back to BoxRec.

Posted: **05 Jan 2024, 06:43**

omalley wrote: ↑05 Jan 2024, 05:16
tonyevs wrote: ↑05 Jan 2024, 03:55 Usyk dominated the cruiserweight division, and is stepping up and seen as giving his heavyweight opponents big advantages over him. If he loses to Fury it will be seen as the size advantage and not skill/heart was the deciding factor.
If he loses to Fury, he loses. Usyk has 3 HW belts, it's too late for excuses.

Absolutely - if Usyk loses he loses.

However, most predicting a Fury win are saying it will be Fury's size advantage being too much, and not Fury being too skilled etc .. the excuse is there already

Posted: **05 Jan 2024, 07:14**

tonyevs wrote: ↑05 Jan 2024, 06:43
omalley wrote: ↑05 Jan 2024, 05:16
tonyevs wrote: ↑05 Jan 2024, 03:55 Usyk dominated the cruiserweight division, and is stepping up and seen as giving his heavyweight opponents big advantages over him. If he loses to Fury it will be seen as the size advantage and not skill/heart was the deciding factor.
If he loses to Fury, he loses. Usyk has 3 HW belts, it's too late for excuses.
Absolutely - if Usyk loses he loses.

However, most predicting a Fury win are saying it will be Fury's size advantage being too much, and not Fury being too skilled etc .. the excuse is there already

Sorry, I'm not sure if there are these "most", and I don't care anyway.
It's time to be undisputed. Or not to be.

Posted: **05 Jan 2024, 09:11**

random, but according to boxrec there is only 1 pro card in the whole world today

https://boxrec.com/en/event/887987

Posted: **05 Jan 2024, 09:21**

furys resume is not consistent with being a goat or hof - he has a lot of catching up to do and very little time left .
he is just milkin it which is totally understandeable financially.

good riddance to him and his clan of wannabee boxers .

Posted: **05 Jan 2024, 11:37**

stevec@france wrote: ↑05 Jan 2024, 09:21 furys resume is not consistent with being a goat or hof - he has a lot of catching up to do and very little time left .
he is just milkin it which is totally understandeable financially.

good riddance to him and his clan of wannabee boxers .

Surely there can only be one of those?

Posted: **05 Jan 2024, 11:42**

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑05 Jan 2024, 09:11 random, but according to boxrec there is only 1 pro card in the whole world today

https://boxrec.com/en/event/887987

With a 3-18-0 vs 3-4-1 main event !!

Posted: **05 Jan 2024, 14:51**

I'm sure Fury doesn't care about legacy, he will be happy to retire undefeated. Boxing fans are fickle at the best of times, no matter what some guys achieve there are people ready to shoot them down. Heavyweights like Holmes, Ali, Tyson, Klitschko and Lewis have their haters and their records torn apart. Fury could beat Usyk, AJ, Parker, Dubois, Zhang and Joyce (which of course won't happen) but his record would still be open to criticism.

Posted: **05 Jan 2024, 15:50**

If he beats usyk without controversy once, then retires he is great.

Usyk twice would be better.

Usyk twice then AJ would be superb.

Usyk twice AJ twice extra superb.

I feel usyk and fury are both past their best though, but only by a little bit probably.

Posted: **05 Jan 2024, 18:08**

Dunno life and death with Wilder a win over an aging tired Klitchko Long with refusi g him a rematch Nd eating boar bollocks . Has never convinced me Fury ix all that grest to start with .

Posted: **05 Jan 2024, 18:20**

Joshua never impressed me - he choked TWICE against Usyk, had a meltdown and cry plus ducked Wilder.

Joshua ducked Fury (Facts)

Posted: **05 Jan 2024, 18:23**

quickeyg wrote: ↑05 Jan 2024, 18:20 Joshua never impressed me - he choked TWICE against Usyk, had a meltdown and cry plus ducked Wilder.

Joshua ducked Fury (Facts)

How unimpressed will you get with Fury if he doesn’t even get over the finish line? Or perhaps doesn’t even get to the start line?

Posted: **05 Jan 2024, 18:27**

polecateddy wrote: ↑05 Jan 2024, 18:23
quickeyg wrote: ↑05 Jan 2024, 18:20 Joshua never impressed me - he choked TWICE against Usyk, had a meltdown and cry plus ducked Wilder.

Joshua ducked Fury (Facts)
How unimpressed will you get with Fury if he doesn’t even get over the finish line? Or perhaps doesn’t even get to the start line?

Retiring undefeated in the heavyweight division is impressive

Posted: **05 Jan 2024, 18:34**

He also snubbed little Dev the rat twice which was hilarious and top form!

Posted: **05 Jan 2024, 18:59**

Anthony 'Eddie can you ask me questions only' Joshua

Posted: **05 Jan 2024, 19:11**

Lol. Still hurting

The funniest bit was hearing Fwank give Roland Rat a ticking off for allowing AJ to play him so easily.

BoxRec

Fury's legacy after the Usyk fight

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Re: Fury's legacy after the Usyk fight