BoxRec

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Eastman did not beat Joppy, he lost it fair and square by standing and posing when he should have been throwing punches. Joppy was too good for him, simple as. I believe Howard to be a fringe world class fighter at his peak, but always beatable by someone who wanted it more.

Agree.

DG. wrote:

overhand_right wrote:Has everyone on this board lost their minds..? The co Howard has mixed in is leagues above Richard Williams! Who the hell is this geezer?! Why are you all so high on him? Hes 35 & has been stopped in light-middle company...

Eastman bangs this chump out regardless of how long he sticks & moves. Eastman WORLD CLASS, williams, with lowercase w, domestic class.

Never seen him fight have you?.

No! Im not hiding that fact!

Thats why im so confused. When the fight comes, im gonna bet money on The Battersea Bomber. This guy aint beating Howard.

overhand_right wrote:

DG. wrote:

overhand_right wrote:Has everyone on this board lost their minds..? The co Howard has mixed in is leagues above Richard Williams! Who the hell is this geezer?! Why are you all so high on him? Hes 35 & has been stopped in light-middle company...

Eastman bangs this chump out regardless of how long he sticks & moves. Eastman WORLD CLASS, williams, with lowercase w, domestic class.

Never seen him fight have you?.

No! Im not hiding that fact!

Thats why im so confused. When the fight comes, im gonna bet money on The Battersea Bomber. This guy aint beating Howard.

He lost on his feet ( Corner retirement) to Matinez and Martinez was 44-0 as a amateur and has only lost once and that was in 7 (?) to Antonio Margarito.


Richard is a well skilled fighter with good powers and chin.

You can not bet against a fighter that you have not seen fight.

nickd wrote:Eastman is world class on what basis? Beating McCracken? Thats how he got the high WBC ranking. McCracken was overrated himself off the back of beating Lonnie Beasley.

Sam Soliman?

Hellephant wrote:

nickd wrote:Eastman is world class on what basis? Beating McCracken? Thats how he got the high WBC ranking. McCracken was overrated himself off the back of beating Lonnie Beasley.

Sam Soliman?

As someone mentioned earlier.

Sam Soliman was taking fight at very late notice those days.



I think he would out speed Howard now.

DG. wrote:

Hellephant wrote:

nickd wrote:Eastman is world class on what basis? Beating McCracken? Thats how he got the high WBC ranking. McCracken was overrated himself off the back of beating Lonnie Beasley.

Sam Soliman?

As someone mentioned earlier.

Sam Soliman was taking fight at very late notice those days.



I think he would out speed Howard now.

That I agree with.

Sam although Commonwealth champion he wasn't that experienced and has improved 10 fold since those days. Remember he lost to Jerry Elliot two fight before Eastman.

Solimon would be an excellent next step fight for the winner of the proposed Williams vs Eastman match.

nickd wrote:

DG. wrote:

Hellephant wrote: Sam Soliman?

As someone mentioned earlier.

Sam Soliman was taking fight at very late notice those days.



I think he would out speed Howard now.

That I agree with.

stujones wrote:Sam although Commonwealth champion he wasn't that experienced and has improved 10 fold since those days. Remember he lost to Jerry Elliot two fight before Eastman.

Solimon would be an excellent next step fight for the winner of the proposed Williams vs Eastman match.

Very True..!

Eastman is world class. His loses are all against very good opposition. If you overate him (becuase no, Eastman is not good enough to actually win a world title) then the fact he's lost to Joppy, Hopkins, Miranda etc would leave you to beleive he does not belong at this level. But I disagree, because these are all boxers of the highest calibre and he competed well in all cases IMO.

The manner of victory over McCracken, Dann and Cherifi (who still had something left and was boxing at his best weight) proved he was a level above them and that has to be considered world class in my view.

Regard Soliman, the fact remains Howard squeezed past him and got the win. Maybe Soliman would beat Howard now, but Soliman is world class and losing to him does not automatically mean you're not world class yourself.

Fact is, Williams has practically no meaningful form at middleweight and Howard does. I'm sure Eastman would start favourite with the bookies and with good reason.

By the way D.G., Abraham DOES have skills and he used them to good effect agaisnt Howard. But this was a competitive fight for most of the way and Abraham is exceptionally strong. Despite Richard's more polished skills you still have to have serious strength to apply then against Howard and I don't think Williams has anywhere near Abraham's strength, physical or mental.

THEBUTCH wrote:
By the way D.G., Abraham DOES have skills and he used them to good effect agaisnt Howard. But this was a competitive fight for most of the way and Abraham is exceptionally strong. Despite Richard's more polished skills you still have to have serious strength to apply then against Howard and I don't think Williams has anywhere near Abraham's strength, physical or mental.

.


I think Howard is exceptionally strong and great chin.

That is why he is difficult to beat - he has world class strength and chin.

NOT WORLD CLASS SKILLS imo.

Abraham is STRONG - I actually think Howard beat him on points and tht is saying something as Howard fights lazy.

Richard Williams has a good chance against Howard Eastman.

3 years ago?- Howard by late Ko.

Now?


RW WPTS 12 HE.

I'm not saying Richard doesn't have a chance, he does, but the question I put to you is who has Williams proved his skills against at middleweight who are in the same league as Eastman ??? You know as well as me the answer to that is..... no one.

Richard looks great on the eye and at domestic level is fairly close to a complete package. It is, however, one thing looking like your skills etc are world class when you're not actually competing at such a level and another entirely transferring those same attributes against a much tougher opponent.

THEBUTCH wrote:I'm not saying Richard doesn't have a chance, he does, but the question I put to you is who has Williams proved his skills against at middleweight who are in the same league as Eastman ??? You know as well as me the answer to that is..... no one.

Richard looks great on the eye and at domestic level is fairly close to a complete package. It is, however, one thing looking like your skills etc are world class when you're not actually competing at such a level and another entirely transferring those same attributes against a much tougher opponent.

RW beat Shannon Taylor - Andrei Pestraiev and Andrew Murray who were all once World Class fighters but not at Middle.

Because RW has not beaten a Top Middleweight does not mean he can not.

It is about getting the opportunity.


Has Howard beaten a top 10 Middleweight?.

No.

Yes he has. McCracken for starters, and I dare say there might be others who had a top ten rating at the time Howard beat them, possibly Soliman with the IBF.

Close losses to Joppy and Abraham, which on another night might have gone his way are clearly far superior results to that of Williams and the boxers you have just mentioned, all faded and light middles.

Soliman was not ranked in the top 10 at the time, it was pretty early in Soliman's career. Joppy and Abraham both beat Howard fair and square, Howard did sod all in both bouts, as he has every single time he's had a chance at a title or a title shot.

Maybe Soliman wasn't , I'm note 100% sure but he'd already mixed in good company and stopped Neville Brown. Don't forget he was no rookie because he had kick boxing experience, which is why he previously gone the full 12 with both Kevin and Glen Kelly. Impressive stuff in my book.

Joppy and and Abraham did both beat Eastman fair and square, but they were close bouts and COULD have conceivably gone Eastmans way and if they were close fights as I think quite a lot of fans would agree, Eastman obviously did a lot more than sod all. Joppy and Abraham are good, top ten boxers. Howard simply didn't do enough and lost. I understand this, but also that the fights were close enough for argument.

THEBUTCH wrote:Yes he has. McCracken for starters, and I dare say there might be others who had a top ten rating at the time Howard beat them, possibly Soliman with the IBF.

Close losses to Joppy and Abraham, which on another night might have gone his way are clearly far superior results to that of Williams and the boxers you have just mentioned, all faded and light middles.

Richard was light midle with how many fights at the time?

15?.

Howard had How many beifre he fought Mccrackenand Joppy?.


Plus .Pestriav was number 3 with the WBA(3) at the time RW beat him on a Virtual SHUT OUT!



More even fight now that it ever was!

Anyone notice how the UK Middles are all saying they want Scott Dann but NO ONE IS SAYIN THEY WANT RICHARD WILLIAMS!



Mcdermott had been talking. Elcock has been talking.


Why no mention of 'FIGHTING RW'?.


I wonder why?.

It's probably true to say Williams is not on everyone's list as a 1st choice, but how much will Matchroom pay the opponent? How many show's does Hearn put on that feature Williams at the top of the bill and make it an attractive proposition ?

Also Williams holds no genuine title, what's the incentive to the other domestic middleweights ?

The winner of Elcock-Blundell will box for the English title against Bendall and presumably the winner of that would be in a good position to be nominated for the British title. They all have a clear route to get where they want to be. Where does Williams fit into all all this ? No where.

THEBUTCH wrote:Eastman is world class. His loses are all against very good opposition. If you overate him (becuase no, Eastman is not good enough to actually win a world title) then the fact he's lost to Joppy, Hopkins, Miranda etc would leave you to beleive he does not belong at this level. But I disagree, because these are all boxers of the highest calibre and he competed well in all cases IMO.

The manner of victory over McCracken, Dann and Cherifi (who still had something left and was boxing at his best weight) proved he was a level above them and that has to be considered world class in my view.

Regard Soliman, the fact remains Howard squeezed past him and got the win. Maybe Soliman would beat Howard now, but Soliman is world class and losing to him does not automatically mean you're not world class yourself.

Fact is, Williams has practically no meaningful form at middleweight and Howard does. I'm sure Eastman would start favourite with the bookies and with good reason.

By the way D.G., Abraham DOES have skills and he used them to good effect agaisnt Howard. But this was a competitive fight for most of the way and Abraham is exceptionally strong. Despite Richard's more polished skills you still have to have serious strength to apply then against Howard and I don't think Williams has anywhere near Abraham's strength, physical or mental.

I agree... I rate Eastman and dont think he is shot, he has shown what he does to the 'domestic level fighters' ie Dann, ect. He will beat Richard Williams, im gonna place a big bet on it too.

THEBUTCH wrote:It's probably true to say Williams is not on everyone's list as a 1st choice, but how much will Matchroom pay the opponent? How many show's does Hearn put on that feature Williams at the top of the bill and make it an attractive proposition ?

Also Williams holds no genuine title, what's the incentive to the other domestic middleweights ?

The winner of Elcock-Blundell will box for the English title against Bendall and presumably the winner of that would be in a good position to be nominated for the British title. They all have a clear route to get where they want to be. Where does Williams fit into all all this ? No where.

I'm with Butch on this one. Rich was a good prospect, but he's well past his sell by date. Eastman is on the slide too, but his experience and pride will see him establishing himself as the dominant fighter. C'mon, he did beat Gary Beardsley .

DG, I know I can be a little 'Lockett Happy' at times, as he's a mate and I support him, but I feel your promoting of Williams is sometimes a little blinkered. Eastman has operated on a completely different level.

Rich would give alot of middles a hard time, but with no title, of marquee value.... Who does want to fight him? I like Rich, but if he's taking 8 round points decisions to beat people who are getting banged out by youngsters, I'd like to see him quit before he gets hurt.

JimmyJamJerusalem wrote:

THEBUTCH wrote:It's probably true to say Williams is not on everyone's list as a 1st choice, but how much will Matchroom pay the opponent? How many show's does Hearn put on that feature Williams at the top of the bill and make it an attractive proposition ?

Also Williams holds no genuine title, what's the incentive to the other domestic middleweights ?

The winner of Elcock-Blundell will box for the English title against Bendall and presumably the winner of that would be in a good position to be nominated for the British title. They all have a clear route to get where they want to be. Where does Williams fit into all all this ? No where.

I'm with Butch on this one. Rich was a good prospect, but he's well past his sell by date. Eastman is on the slide too, but his experience and pride will see him establishing himself as the dominant fighter. C'mon, he did beat Gary Beardsley .

DG, I know I can be a little 'Lockett Happy' at times, as he's a mate and I support him, but I feel your promoting of Williams is sometimes a little blinkered. Eastman has operated on a completely different level.

Rich would give alot of middles a hard time, but with no title, of marquee value.... Who does want to fight him? I like Rich, but if he's taking 8 round points decisions to beat people who are getting banged out by youngsters, I'd like to see him quit before he gets hurt.

8 rounds get ROUNDS in - blasting out someone means niothing.


RW is in with a good chance - anyone heard anything new?.

Williams/Eastman has the potential to be a very entertaining fight. Im a bit gutted they are facing each other cos i like em both. I was really looking forward to Williams smashing crap out of Scott Dann cos Dann is a big head who really isn't upto much. This fight is much harder for Williams but it s fight that will elevate his profile on the world scene so much more than giving Dann a hiding would have.
Id love to see Williams who has been one of the classiest British boxers in a long time with his slick old school ability, get a world title shot. On his day and against the right opponent he would have a great chance.

lurkyshaka wrote:Williams/Eastman has the potential to be a very entertaining fight. Im a bit gutted they are facing each other cos i like em both. I was really looking forward to Williams smashing crap out of Scott Dann cos Dann is a big head who really isn't upto much. This fight is much harder for Williams but it s fight that will elevate his profile on the world scene so much more than giving Dann a hiding would have.
Id love to see Williams who has been one of the classiest British boxers in a long time with his slick old school ability, get a world title shot. On his day and against the right opponent he would have a great chance.

Agree - this is a fight between 2 of my fav fighters but RW has my vote.


COME ON RW!!!!

Has Howard Spoken about this?