BoxRec

edit

DaveV17 wrote:Collins,
since you brought my name into the discussion...I do prefer reading one of Granberry's real life boxing stories anytime over one of your recitals of what you have read or heard from Merchant, Sugar, Hauser, Cosell, etc. I consider everything written or said by that group worthless and by extension, I consider your posts worthless.

As a rule of thumb, the bigger the Ali fan, the less that person's knowledge of boxing Boxing boards are dominated by those who have read a few Ali bios and have little or no real life boxing knowledge. Those people cause the boards to be predictable and boring. Granberry and a few others are a breath of fresh air. Granberry obviously has real life experience in boxing and he sees through the Cosells, and Sugars of the world. It is refreshing to read posts by Granberry and a few others who kinow the subject they are writing about.

Collins, you and some of the other "Ali fans first, boxing fans second group" are good for comic relief. When it comes to boxing knowledge, well, you are good for comic relief...

Dave, given that your knowledge of boxing is paper thin, what you have to say on the subject is of no importance.

Also, given that 80% of your posts concern Ali, you ought to be a little more careful with your labelling of posters, Dimwit.

gone

DaveV17 wrote:Colins, it was nice that you signed your post.

Collins wrote:
"Also, given that 80% of your posts concern Ali, you ought to be a little more careful with your labelling of posters, Dimwit."

Don't be so rough on yourself, you might not be dimwitted, you might just be ignorant of the subject.

That would be correct if I'd used a full stop rather than a comma, Dimwitted Dave.

When I suggest you are as dumb as dogshit, Dave, as well as your semi-literate posts I also take into account your scoring of the 2nd Ali - Norton fight. The one where you boasted of being a very experienced fight fan with an open mind. The one where you gave Ali ONE ROUND.

Collins2000 (not half as dimwitted as Dave)

I like the real boxing stories as well, with that said one's preference for a particular fighter probably tells little about what one knows of the sport overall. It's sort of like attempting to read tea leaves, or the human palm or the stars I suppose ...so if your a soothsayer I suppose you could be on to something. Maybe Takara might know.

To judge someones boxing knowledge purely on the basis of their favorites is sort of like judging someone's character on their height, eye color or some more controversial predjudice.

I suppose if all you hear from someone is Joe Lous,Ali and DLH then maybe your on to something. But I have known some extreme hard core jazz officiandos to admit that they like pop music as well. So you can never tell. Sometimes things that are popular actually are worth appreciating. But just try convincing a snob of such realities.

Any pre judged opinion based on something that superficial has a dysfunctional story behind it.

Also I think there is room for those that just LIKE the sport and have been only exposed to it via the writers that some of contributors villify.
Opinions are just that. IF you are a former trainer your opinion and knowledge should be appreciated by all.

....I have known some real dedicated trainers, referees, amateur and pro fighters and they very very RARELY lash out at people for what is called "shootin' the shit" about the sport. They like to educate and rarely belittle anyone for showing an interest. (Even if they happen to meet up with someone who is obviously talking above their game.) As angry a game as boxing can appear to be, some of the wisest and most generous people I have ever met have been associated with it. I once saw Joe Frazier tip a new waiter who was obviously struggling in life (2) one hundred dollar bills in Hampton Va. My mom saw Zora Foley GIVE a used car to a man who truly had nothing, at a time when Zora was not doing all that well himself.

When a man's skills to take care of himself in a tough situation are truly sound that person usually grows in character from what I have seen. Archie Moore comes to mind as Does Floyd Patterson. Boxing is a martial art and when one truly pursues the body discipline, the mind USUALLY follows.

And to bring it back to topic....show me a man who can stay on his feet for 30 plus fights and I'll show a man of stable character.

There are exceptions to this rule! Jake Lamotta comes to mind. There are certainly others as well.

edit

DaveV17 wrote:Collins (Dimwit if you prefer),

Fortunately, I remembered before continuing my discussion with you, "Never argue with an idiot; he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience." I will ignore your posts before you drag me into your comfort zone.

Dave, can we really label your postings 'discussion'?

To be able to discuss something don't you need knowledge of the subject under discussion?

That counts you out, I'm afraid, as your posts betray a complete lack of any semblence of boxing knowledge.

Please continue to post your inarticulate ramblings though; they amuse me.

beautiful post buzz.

Box Buzz hit it on the head. Leave the Ali rambling aside and get back on the topic.

I still say everyone ignores Ignacio Ara, Spanish and European middleweight champion never stopped in almost 180 fights. He is hardly ever mentioned....

enrique wrote:Box Buzz hit it on the head. Leave the Ali rambling aside and get back on the topic.

I still say everyone ignores Ignacio Ara, Spanish and European middleweight champion never stopped in almost 180 fights. He is hardly ever mentioned....

that is unbelievable

good choice

As a rule of thumb, the bigger the Ali fan, the less that person's knowledge of boxing

granberry wrote:

ECMoney wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:Up until Walcott, Marciano wasn't ever knocked down as a professional. At the time Marciano had 42 fights. 42 fights without so much as a knockdown is pretty impressive.

George Chuvalo takes the cake.
93 pro fights, never off his feet
fought Ali (twice), Foreman, Frazier, Quarry, Terrell, etc, etc

He was stopped by a young George Foreman in 3 rounds.

He was stopped by a young Joe Frazier in 4 rounds.

Neither of those takes any cake.

Being stopped by Foreman and Frazier definitely isnt anything to be ashamed of. Never being knocked off you feet in 93 pro fights is definitely something to be proud of.

Here we go trying to get this topic one back on track.----Another fighter who did not kiss the canvas was the great Pete Herman of New Orleans.

granberry wrote:

Brute wrote:

dempseyfire wrote: But to be fair look at who he'd fought. LaStarza and Kid Matthews wern't really know as big Heavyweight hitters.

Ring magazine had an article many years ago about "Hiroshima Bombers with Dresden Jaws." It related to big hitters who never got to the top because of their suspect mandibles. I am sure Roland La Starza was mentioned.

I am sure La Starza was not mentioned.

You know ziltch about La Starza, brute.

What is the point of posting your own fantasies in place of facts?

Sicko.

Get fucked, granma. La Starza scored 27 KOs in his career. Most boxers now don't have that many fights.

DaveV17 wrote:Oliver McCall. Never been down in a fight, never been down in hundreds of rounds of sparring with the prime Mike Tyson. I've never seen him stunned or hurt.

Even when McCall had the breakdown after literally walking out of drug rehab and into the ring with Lennox Lewis he didn't go down. Lewis was hitting him cleanly as McCall walked around with his hands down and Lewis couldn't hurt him. McCall has the best chin I have seen.

McCall was stunned a few times vs Bruce Seldon, and nearly TKO'd by Buster Douglas.

I think Eder Jofre was never down, but I could be wrong.

as far as thumbing goes...it's like low blows, rabbit punches, hitting on the break and the like. The ref should do his job AND as the referee reminds the fighters...you must defend yourself at all times. All part of the game and not all fouls are intentional. Sad that they so often play a critical role in some outcomes....but sa la vie.

Ok so has anybody heard the report that Marvin Hagler was knocked down in his fight against Norberto Rufino Cabrera?

I thought Randall was Chavez' 91st fight, not his 90th?

enrique wrote:Gavilan was knocked down by Carlos Malacara, Julio Cesar Jimenez, Ike Williams and Carmen Basilio.

Are you sure about Malacara and Jimenez?

Somes sources say he was only down twice, against Williams and Basilio.

I've somtimes read that he was down three times, vs. Jiminez, Williams, and Basilio.

I only read once that he was down against Malacara, but I thought maybe the article was confusing it with the Jiminez KD.

Just out of curiosity, what are your sources for this?

Triple G hands down. Never knocked down.

pound per pound wrote: ↑31 Dec 2007, 07:59

DaveV17 wrote:Oliver McCall. Never been down in a fight, never been down in hundreds of rounds of sparring with the prime Mike Tyson. I've never seen him stunned or hurt.

Even when McCall had the breakdown after literally walking out of drug rehab and into the ring with Lennox Lewis he didn't go down. Lewis was hitting him cleanly as McCall walked around with his hands down and Lewis couldn't hurt him. McCall has the best chin I have seen.

McCall was stunned a few times vs Bruce Seldon, and nearly TKO'd by Buster Douglas.

I think Eder Jofre was never down, but I could be wrong.

Ah the pre YouTube era, where you could make stuff up about fights.

McCall stunned by Seldon? Nearly TKOd by Douglas?

I believe this guy was only down once (in his 68th fight) and check out some of the punchers he fought (Haye, Maccarinelli, Canatore, Wlodarczyk, Gassiev, amongst others)

https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/19825

J-C wrote: ↑22 Aug 2020, 11:07 I believe this guy was only down once (in his 68th fight) and check out some of the punchers he fought (Haye, Maccarinelli, Canatore, Wlodarczyk, Gassiev, amongst others)

https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/19825

Yeah that bloke's rock hard.

Sixto Escobar was never knocked down in about sixty or so bouts....

El Chapo Rosario was tko'd but he was never down in 47 fights.

Mike McCallum never went down either did he? Not even after that bomb landed on his chin by Julian Jackson!

Big Klit never ruled down as most prob know

Some dudes mention Sanders, but that clearly wasn't a KD. Sanders misses the punch he's throwing and then pulls Vit down. No doubt Vit was buzzed though

There was some rando guy Vitali fought early in his career who he was off balance against and arguably coulda been called a flash kd. Though tbf I' m sure some of these other guys had some arguable non calls in there too , and officially he was never ruled down