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Re: George Foreman V Joe Frazier
Posted: 11 Oct 2008, 21:12
by observer1
Goodnight, Irene wrote:"Cast-iron" may be a stretch, however, I agree Tyson's chin trumps Frazier's in its ability to absorb one or two big shots. It hardly matters in this bout, though. Tyson loses heart the minute Foreman lands (& with Tyson's reach disparity & similiarity in his approach to Frazier, there seems little doubt that, in spite of the speed disparity, Foreman will land first).
Foreman's first fight with Frazier is an excellent (not perfect, but good enough) blueprint for a hypothetical match-up with Tyson. It tells the story, IMO.
i agree, and understand why you may think Tyson-Foreman would have the same story as Frazier - Forema.
Tyson and Frazier were indeed similar fighters, but that does not mean everything. There were seceral key differences between the two.
Frazier certainly did have a better heart than Tyson,
Tyson however, i feel was a better all-round Boxer, much much Faster, Harder to hit and much more Combo's.
Foreman was powerful and long reach, but was Slow.
Tyson had one of the shortest reaches in history, but it never stopped him becoming undisputed champion. Since he used Combo's and his height to get leverage, and never relied on a jabbing contest.
I understand perfectly well why people say Tyson will have the same result as Frazier, but IMO, With the reasons highlighted above
Re: George Foreman V Joe Frazier
Posted: 13 Oct 2008, 08:54
by Ambling Alp
Just wanted to address a couple of different points:
Goodnight Irene-I don't think Frazier ever landed his left hook on the button against Foreman; certainly not in the first fight. Foreman himself has said that he was glad that he didn't. Foreman (to his credit) never let Frazier in that fight.
Observer 1- Tyson did not have a better chin that Frazier. No one after Foreman ever knocked Frazier down after his 12th career fight.
No way would Buster Douglas have knocked Frazier out. A fighter with a great chin takes those shots. Hard to imagine Holyfield stopping Frazier either.
Tyson had a good chin but not a great chin.
Re: George Foreman V Joe Frazier
Posted: 13 Oct 2008, 10:36
by Syntax Error
TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:Joe Frazier would have been a great champion in any era...His only four losses came against one of the greatest boxers and one of the greatest punchers of any era...
However it is unfair to George Foreman to denigrate his victory by saying Joe Frazier was old or out of shape. He wasn't old (twenty nine years old) or particularly out of shape (214 pounds).
George Foreman just had his number;he feasted on pressure fighters...
Big George has five losses;two losses as a young man (Young and Ali) and three losses as an old man (Morrison, Briggs, and Holyfield)...None of them won by taking the fight to George...They won by avoiding him and letting himself tire out...Holyfield was somewhere in the middle and expressed a willingness to trade at times...
Maybe a way to look at is Joe was a great swarmer, Ali was a great boxer/tactician, and Foreman was a great slugger...
Joe didn't look to be in the best shape when he fought Foreman the 1st time.
He was loose & fleshy looking to me.
Frazier's ideal weight was about 10 lbs lighter than that.
Re: George Foreman V Joe Frazier
Posted: 13 Oct 2008, 14:00
by observer1
Ambling Alp wrote:Just wanted to address a couple of different points:
Goodnight Irene-I don't think Frazier ever landed his left hook on the button against Foreman; certainly not in the first fight. Foreman himself has said that he was glad that he didn't. Foreman (to his credit) never let Frazier in that fight.
Observer 1- Tyson did not have a better chin that Frazier. No one after Foreman ever knocked Frazier down after his 12th career fight.
No way would Buster Douglas have knocked Frazier out. A fighter with a great chin takes those shots. Hard to imagine Holyfield stopping Frazier either.
Tyson had a good chin but not a great chin.
Not saying Tyson had a better chin than Frazier. Frazier arguebally had one of the best Chin's in HW history.
Tyson was stopped more due to poor preparation hence losing stamina quickly.
A Prepared Tyson with proper cornermen would fare differently imo.
Re: George Foreman V Joe Frazier
Posted: 13 Oct 2008, 17:40
by Goodnight, Irene
Ambling Alp wrote:Just wanted to address a couple of different points:
Goodnight Irene-I don't think Frazier ever landed his left hook on the button against Foreman; certainly not in the first fight. Foreman himself has said that he was glad that he didn't. Foreman (to his credit) never let Frazier in that fight.
Observer 1- Tyson did not have a better chin that Frazier. No one after Foreman ever knocked Frazier down after his 12th career fight.
No way would Buster Douglas have knocked Frazier out. A fighter with a great chin takes those shots. Hard to imagine Holyfield stopping Frazier either.
Tyson had a good chin but not a great chin.
He lands hard & clean in the first round of the 1973 massacre, preceding any of the knockdowns. If you own the fight, listen for Dunphy to say, "Foreman has been nailed, & nailed good." The left hook struck solidly.
In the 1976 skirmish, I will try to find the round for you when time permits, as I plainly recall (at least) one occasion when Foreman shakes off the left hook. Foreman, like Tyson, had a chin capable of wearing one big shot with impressive results.
Re: George Foreman V Joe Frazier
Posted: 14 Oct 2008, 22:11
by pete
As I recall Foreman seemed to be in no hurry in '76 and Joe tried to box and stay out of exchanges.Of course as soon as George hurt Frazier he finished him.
According to the announcer Frazier suffered the first cut of his career in this fight.
Re: George Foreman V Joe Frazier
Posted: 15 Oct 2008, 04:00
by Robinson
The 1976 rematch is an under appreciated fight, Frazier shows his heart
but he is too far gone by this stage to be any real threat against a still
very effective Foreman. Frazier however does have his moments and
makes it a decent fight until Foremans power drills through.