BoxRec

stujones wrote:

Autobarn wrote:Lots of angles for this fight & the result. Oscar's weight, age and so on.

Here's another. Pac is one of the great ones, and beat a fighter who even at his best was "merely" very good.

I really don't think you can call a 6 time world champion only very good. Lets not forget, 18 months ago - he was beating a great, possibly the greatest of this generation, untill his 34 year old legs caught up with him in the last 3 rounds... but still - a fair few had him winning.

If you remember I asked the question before and after the Mayweather contest - who would win 1997 DLH at 140, or 2007 Mayweather at 140... more people changed their mind after the contest, plumping for DLH.

It could be argued that Hopkins and Pacquiao are the only two fighters to have beaten him, that he hasn't avenged. With the fighters he has faced- you cannot say that a "very good" fighter could manage that.

If Calzaghe is going down as a "great" then DLH is a great.

Name the PRIME fighters he fought to get his BELTS!

Chavez was past it.
Whittaker was past his best and STILL won, imo.
Sturm??

Have a look and see who he COULD have fought in his career.

He got the opportunities becaus he SELLS tickets.

He is basically a better version of Hatton in that respect.

He gts world title shots ALL the time because he brings money.

Would be good to see him work his way into contention but he has never had to.

Chavez = #1 in the devision
Whittikar = #1 in the devision
Vargas = #1 in the devision
Reulas = one of the best in the devision.

Even Sturm is in the top #3 now!

I expected Pacquiao to win, but I was gobsmacked with the ease of the fight and that he managed to stop him (my money went on a Manny UD )


Manny's a phenomena and a living legend..... I bet Rickys gutted with the result. Manny-Hatton will be entertaining though if it happens

[quote="stujones"]Chavez = #1 in the devision
Whittikar = #1 in the devision
Vargas = #1 in the devision
Reulas = one of the best in the devision.

Even Sturm is in the top #3 now![/quote

Rated means nothing.

Vargas was shot to shit!
Whittaker and Chavez were past thir primes.
DLH is rated Number 1 at Lt Middle and we all know he would not beat Paul Williams or Sergio Martinez at this time.

DLH is not rated number #1 at Light Middle now. He was, but not now. He hasn't fought there officially in 18months, and did win that time officially either.

Of course rated means shit.... so you telling me, if he would have fought say Jake Rodriguez, Ike Quartey (oh yeah he did), and Winky Wright - people wouldn't have been saying - but he never fought the #1 in the devision..... rediculous if you think those were more exceptable. Even Winky, Winky WENT ON to show what an outstanding fighter he was - but at the time, hadn't long lost to Vargas and hadn't done anything to show he was better than him.

I really enjoyed watching De La Hoya being humiliated for setting up a such a cynical match and having it backfire.

He looked like a shot fighter but all the way through i was expecting Manny to open up and get cracked. Freddie was right he can't pull the trigger. DLH didn't use any of his advantages the jab disappeared after one round where it really did seem to be keeping Manny away at first. He didn't cut off the ring either.

Manny's lateral movement and bouncing back out of range after every single attack worked like a charm. I didn't think it would be enough but i was glad to be wrong.

I didn`t enjoy this fight at all.

It was sickening to see DLH con the world into thinking he was still a serious boxer. He is a money man. He didn`t come to fight, he never threw a punch in anger. Terrible "fight"

Boxing is so fucked that DLH and not Pacman will fight Hatton next year. Just wait and see.

Shirow wrote:
I really enjoyed watching De La Hoya being humiliated for setting up a such a cynical match and having it backfire.

Agree!

Stu, DLH was matched and marketed very well.

That's all I can say!

forcefraser wrote:I didn`t enjoy this fight at all.

It was sickening to see DLH con the world into thinking he was still a serious boxer. He is a money man. He didn`t come to fight, he never threw a punch in anger. Terrible "fight"

Boxing is so fucked that DLH and not Pacman will fight Hatton next year. Just wait and see.

No chance will DLH fight Hatton next year, no chance - well maybe at 154. Thats the only weight we will see DLH fight again.

Yes, DLH has made a fortune (his fault?), yes since Hopkins he has been very inactive - still more active than Joe Calzaghe throughout his career. However, I really cannot believe boxing fans are so chuffed to see such a servant who has, single handily almost, kept boxing alive in the 90's and 00's get a pasting.

It would have been interesting had forums been around in 1991 when Leonard fought Norris, so many comparison with that fight. Leonard = part time fighter, fighting at a much higher weight class, moving back down to close to his "old" natural weight, deemed past his prime but looked okay vs Hearns and Duran in his previous fights. Norris - the "serious" fighter, in his pomp, and up there in the P4P lists.

And my feelings are the same - a bit of a passing of the torch, but sad to see an end to a glittering career like that, and sorry IMO anyone who doesn't feel like that is probably people who have called him De la chicken or something throughout his career and more jelous than anything else.

stujones wrote:

forcefraser wrote:

However, I really cannot believe boxing fans are so chuffed to see such a servant who has, single handily almost, kept boxing alive in the 90's and 00's get a pasting.

Servant? Servant?

He has served himself in all honesty.

At last the cheesy grin and bullshit stops. No more DLH and I am glad!

stujones wrote:

forcefraser wrote: De la chicken or something throughout his career and more jelous than anything else.

Lets het it right....

Its 'Oscar De la Chicken Tikka Anna Kournikova Hoya'

stujones wrote:

forcefraser wrote:I didn`t enjoy this fight at all.

It was sickening to see DLH con the world into thinking he was still a serious boxer. He is a money man. He didn`t come to fight, he never threw a punch in anger. Terrible "fight"

Boxing is so fucked that DLH and not Pacman will fight Hatton next year. Just wait and see.

No chance will DLH fight Hatton next year, no chance - well maybe at 154. Thats the only weight we will see DLH fight again.

Yes, DLH has made a fortune (his fault?), yes since Hopkins he has been very inactive - still more active than Joe Calzaghe throughout his career. However, I really cannot believe boxing fans are so chuffed to see such a servant who has, single handily almost, kept boxing alive in the 90's and 00's get a pasting.

It would have been interesting had forums been around in 1991 when Leonard fought Norris, so many comparison with that fight. Leonard = part time fighter, fighting at a much higher weight class, moving back down to close to his "old" natural weight, deemed past his prime but looked okay vs Hearns and Duran in his previous fights. Norris - the "serious" fighter, in his pomp, and up there in the P4P lists.

And my feelings are the same - a bit of a passing of the torch, but sad to see an end to a glitteriI ng career like that, and sorry IMO anyone who doesn't feel like that is probably people who have called him De la chicken or something throughout his career and more jelous than anything else.

I couldn't agree more Stu.

Oscar has been so good for the sport - he's been one of the only major stars in the US since Tyson went - and rather like leonard, whilst he has picked and chosen his opponents at the right times on occasion - he was also much tougher than given credit for. His first fight with Mosley was a real gem - both men going hammer and tongs at one another.

Oscar clearly had nothing left whatsoever in the ring - and I thought he showed amazing class during the post fight interview. Larry asked him what he meant about his comment 'I did it to myself.....' when he was sat in the corner, but chose not to expand on the comment and instead gave credit to Manny Pacquaio, as the reason he lost the fight.

Oscar obviously made a mistake in coming down to 147 he had no energy and couldn't pull the trigger - and took hellacious punishment, with no arsenal with which to fire back. He was rather to brave for his own good, just standing there taking shots with nothing to offer. It was a very sad sight.

I think people are mad if they think oscar just 'gave up' he doesn't need the money, and there's no way on earth he would have wanted to go out like that - he will probably fight once more back at 154.

DG. wrote:

[/quote]

Servant? Servant?

He has served himself in all honesty.

At last the cheesy grin and bullshit stops. No more DLH and I am glad!


[/quote]

Well you are entitled to that view, but if you think he served himself more than Leonard did then you are mistaken.

I won't have a bad word said about Ray - my P4P G.O.A.T... However, he really was the dictionary definition of Part time fighter, and having DLH vs Hopkins at 158 was not as bad to the terms of Leonard vs Hagler, and how Leonard got the Light Heavyweight title without even fighting at the weight.

stujones wrote:

DG. wrote:

Servant? Servant?

He has served himself in all honesty.

At last the cheesy grin and bullshit stops. No more DLH and I am glad!


[/quote]

Well you are entitled to that view, but if you think he served himself more than Leonard did then you are mistaken.

I won't have a bad word said about Ray - my P4P G.O.A.T... However, he really was the dictionary definition of Part time fighter, and having DLH vs Hopkins at 158 was not as bad to the terms of Leonard vs Hagler, and how Leonard got the Light Heavyweight title without even fighting at the weight.[/quote]


This sums up Leonard in the mind of some..


Someone asked the question 'who is your favourite white fighter'..

Someone said SRL!





Now. SRL was as self serving as they come, but an all round bettter fighter than DLH and 95% of those before him.

SRL was a great fighter, but also fairly pampered.

I totally agree that De La Hoya has been good for the sport of boxing, although I do thin he has always been over rated. My point is that he should not really be giving us this kind of bullshit non fight after talking as though he is gonna smoke Pacman "I will make him pay".

After the fight he said to Larry Merchant that it should be "expected" against a fighter like Pacman. Two weeks earier he is saying that he is in the shape of his life and it would be a disaster if he didn`t knock out Pacman. It didn`t look like the shape of his life to me.

Check out what sparring partnet Edwin Valero said about DLH. It seems that he wasn` t training all that hard by the sounds of things and it showed.

Did he just have our pants down in a $40 million robbery?

I reckon I would have put up a better fight than DLH last night and I aint never won a fight in my life.

DG. wrote:

stujones wrote:

forcefraser wrote:

However, I really cannot believe boxing fans are so chuffed to see such a servant who has, single handily almost, kept boxing alive in the 90's and 00's get a pasting.

Servant? Servant?

He has served himself in all honesty.

At last the cheesy grin and bullshit stops. No more DLH and I am glad!

What a stupid post.

Dumb as a bucket o' rocks.

I wish I didn't have to sound like such a snob, but it really brings down the tone.

I wish you'd get lost. That'd make me glad. That way, I could get back to enjoying reading the opinions of those on here who actually have more than a hollow bone container filled with fetid, congealed grey marmalade at the top of their spinal columns.

No need to reply. Just p1ss off and don't post here ever again.

forcefraser wrote:I totally agree that De La Hoya has been good for the sport of boxing, although I do thin he has always been over rated. My point is that he should not really be giving us this kind of bullshit non fight after talking as though he is gonna smoke Pacman "I will make him pay".

After the fight he said to Larry Merchant that it should be "expected" against a fighter like Pacman. Two weeks earier he is saying that he is in the shape of his life and it would be a disaster if he didn`t knock out Pacman. It didn`t look like the shape of his life to me.

Check out what sparring partnet Edwin Valero said about DLH. It seems that he wasn` t training all that hard by the sounds of things and it showed.

Did he just have our pants down in a $40 million robbery?

I reckon I would have put up a better fight than DLH last night and I aint never won a fight in my life.

EDITED OUT.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

stujones wrote:

forcefraser wrote:I didn`t enjoy this fight at all.

It was sickening to see DLH con the world into thinking he was still a serious boxer. He is a money man. He didn`t come to fight, he never threw a punch in anger. Terrible "fight"

Boxing is so fucked that DLH and not Pacman will fight Hatton next year. Just wait and see.

No chance will DLH fight Hatton next year, no chance - well maybe at 154. Thats the only weight we will see DLH fight again.

Yes, DLH has made a fortune (his fault?), yes since Hopkins he has been very inactive - still more active than Joe Calzaghe throughout his career. However, I really cannot believe boxing fans are so chuffed to see such a servant who has, single handily almost, kept boxing alive in the 90's and 00's get a pasting.

It would have been interesting had forums been around in 1991 when Leonard fought Norris, so many comparison with that fight. Leonard = part time fighter, fighting at a much higher weight class, moving back down to close to his "old" natural weight, deemed past his prime but looked okay vs Hearns and Duran in his previous fights. Norris - the "serious" fighter, in his pomp, and up there in the P4P lists.

And my feelings are the same - a bit of a passing of the torch, but sad to see an end to a glitteriI ng career like that, and sorry IMO anyone who doesn't feel like that is probably people who have called him De la chicken or something throughout his career and more jelous than anything else.

I couldn't agree more Stu.

Oscar has been so good for the sport - he's been one of the only major stars in the US since Tyson went - and rather like leonard, whilst he has picked and chosen his opponents at the right times on occasion - he was also much tougher than given credit for. His first fight with Mosley was a real gem - both men going hammer and tongs at one another.

Oscar clearly had nothing left whatsoever in the ring - and I thought he showed amazing class during the post fight interview. Larry asked him what he meant about his comment 'I did it to myself.....' when he was sat in the corner, but chose not to expand on the comment and instead gave credit to Manny Pacquaio, as the reason he lost the fight.

Oscar obviously made a mistake in coming down to 147 he had no energy and couldn't pull the trigger - and took hellacious punishment, with no arsenal with which to fire back. He was rather to brave for his own good, just standing there taking shots with nothing to offer. It was a very sad sight.

I think people are mad if they think oscar just 'gave up' he doesn't need the money, and there's no way on earth he would have wanted to go out like that - he will probably fight once more back at 154.

Quality posts fellas - but there again I wouldn't expect anything less from the pair of you.

forcefraser wrote:I totally agree that De La Hoya has been good for the sport of boxing, although I do thin he has always been over rated. My point is that he should not really be giving us this kind of bullshit non fight after talking as though he is gonna smoke Pacman "I will make him pay".

After the fight he said to Larry Merchant that it should be "expected" against a fighter like Pacman. Two weeks earier he is saying that he is in the shape of his life and it would be a disaster if he didn`t knock out Pacman. It didn`t look like the shape of his life to me.

Check out what sparring partnet Edwin Valero said about DLH. It seems that he wasn` t training all that hard by the sounds of things and it showed.

Did he just have our pants down in a $40 million robbery?

I reckon I would have put up a better fight than DLH last night and I aint never won a fight in my life.

To be fair, I haven't read what Valero has said - but I am a firm believer of what happens in camp stays in camp. I mean, this week we have also had stories of Fagan dominating McCloskey in sparring - believe that now?

It could be down the the fact that DLH had a good camp but dried out at the end of it, and couldn't replemish it after the weigh in. His fight day weight was alarming.

Not making excuses - but you think DLH was going to say 2 weeks before the fight - Actually "I'm a bit shit now". Perhaps it wasn't quite as it was in training, but he was still thinking he had a chance and didn't want to lose the psychology.

Ali seems to be above criticism for the Holmes fight... and that was just pure farce. Ali was on diuretics, Ali was on Parkinson's pills - Holmes probably would have smashed Ali in 1978 anyway. Yet he was saying he was going to beat him up.

Jones said he was back in all of his fights post Ruiz, Holyfield says he has his best camp since Tyson in all of his fights. Leonard said in 1996 that he would beat Roy Jones!!!!!! They say a fighter is the last to know when he doesn't have it, and sparring is different to fighting, and your always going to struggle find someone as fast as Pacquiao. Would have liked to have seen Mosley in the sparring again - maybe, if DLH was struggling, he could have told him. The yes men are needed for the confidence, but then this is when they are not needed.

Part of the problem with these big events - they often have to be signed a long time before fight time. DLH did okay vs Forbes in May. When did negotiations for this fight start.

Carbo wrote:

What a stupid post.

Dumb as a bucket o' rocks.

I wish I didn't have to sound like such a snob, but it really brings down the tone.

I wish you'd get lost. That'd make me glad. That way, I could get back to enjoying reading the opinions of those on here who actually have more than a hollow bone container filled with fetid, congealed grey marmalade at the top of their spinal columns.

No need to reply. Just p1ss off and don't post here ever again.[/quote]

STFU!

Arsehole.

You average less than 1 post a day!

Go and (Carbo) Hydrate yourself.

What's up ,Carbo?

Time of the month?

Ya bastard!

Fact is Oscar was a great fighter , he ducked no one , he was always gracious in defeat and the fans loved him .I for one thought he would walk through Manny , just too big and too strong , people can say what they want about the weight , about this about that the facts are on the night Oscar looked just what he was .
A SHADOW OFF HIS FORMER SELF, he could'nt get on balance Manny looked great , but Oscar just could'nt get it together for two reasons one he ain't what he used too be and two Manny was just too quick .

We don't have too look at it just from a best in the world perspective , have a look in any gym what are the signs a guy is starting too lose it he starts to get hit with punches he normaly would'nt he also starts to miss more .

Oscars day has been and now its gone credit too Manny he looked good and done the job , but Oscar it was a shame too see him like that , but he's not the first to go on too long and won't be the last .

Now lets see what happens with Hatton and Manny , will Hatton want it , hope so because if Manny wins that and i think he would although i'm not sure , we have too see what happens when a bigger guy is quick enough to catch him and i think Ricky is quick enough .

Anyway Manny beats Hatton we can be asurred Mayweather will come out for what would probably be the highest grossing of all time, 2009 looks good

stujones wrote:DLH is not rated number #1 at Light Middle now. He was, but not now. He hasn't fought there officially in 18months, and did win that time officially either.

Of course rated means shit.... so you telling me, if he would have fought say Jake Rodriguez, Ike Quartey (oh yeah he did), and Winky Wright - people wouldn't have been saying - but he never fought the #1 in the devision..... rediculous if you think those were more exceptable. Even Winky, Winky WENT ON to show what an outstanding fighter he was - but at the time, hadn't long lost to Vargas and hadn't done anything to show he was better than him.

Boxing Monthly has DLH at Number 1 at 154lbs in their latest issue.

stujones wrote: However, I really cannot believe boxing fans are so chuffed to see such a servant who has, single handily almost, kept boxing alive in the 90's and 00's get a pasting.

They aren't really boxing 'fans' are they? Deep down I think these people aren't really boxing fans per se, they invest too much in hating over something nondescript.

Goz wrote:
They aren't really boxing 'fans' are they? Deep down I think these people aren't really boxing fans per se, they invest too much in hating over something nondescript.

Well I would have loved it if Roy Jones smashed Joe, so guess I am guilty also!.

Yes, I admit for having a bit of a blind spot for DLH - but I think the bashing he receives is way over the top. Yes, myself and Terry will probably continue to debate him possibly for the next 20 years - but I was stunned when such a top poster like Terry simply dismissed the revelation that Shane Mosley cheated in the rematch and still was digging away- saying that Steriods doesn't improve skills or make the opponent fade, but steriods CAN make you stronger, fitter, absorb a shot better, and more powerful... which would have had a massive impact on later rounds for both you and the opponent.