BoxRec

How controversial would it be to say Junior Witter was over rated?


It all depends on how we define "over rated." For ages there has been a feeling about him and Hatton- and meany belived that Hatton would get beaten by Witter. Was (is) Witter really good enough to beat Hatton? Did Witter really deserve inclusion in the best Pound for Pound lists?

Its a hard one to say.

For sure, Witter is a good fighter.... but is he as good as people think he was? Hard to say, due to lack of activity.

Or put directly- maybe in time a legend will grow up that Hatton avoid Witter because Witter was the better fighter... Is that deserved?


I mean- Witter is a classy fighter, and was a good World Champion, but is he actually as good as people (in the boxing community) think?

banjo wrote:

WildWaylon wrote:All sorts of fighters names are being quoted as overrated so who could you say was highly rated and deserved to be.

Off the top of my head:

Pernell Whitaker
Julio Cesar Chavez
Lennox Lewis

With you on JCC. I don't even rank him number 1 Mexican.

Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:

banjo wrote:

WildWaylon wrote:All sorts of fighters names are being quoted as overrated so who could you say was highly rated and deserved to be.

Off the top of my head:

Pernell Whitaker
Julio Cesar Chavez
Lennox Lewis

With you on JCC. I don't even rank him number 1 Mexican.

What?

I do rate JCC very highly although not number 1 but he is rated very highly and justified too, he was never beaten in his prime

banjo wrote:

WildWaylon wrote:All sorts of fighters names are being quoted as overrated so who could you say was highly rated and deserved to be.

Off the top of my head:

Pernell Whitaker
Julio Cesar Chavez
Lennox Lewis

Good call on Whitaker, but can't agree on Chavez - he was a hell of a fighter

bloody hell read the question that i'm replying to!!!

I said Lewis, Whitaker and Chavez are highly rated and deservedly so

whicker wrote:How controversial would it be to say Junior Witter was over rated?


It all depends on how we define "over rated." For ages there has been a feeling about him and Hatton- and meany belived that Hatton would get beaten by Witter. Was (is) Witter really good enough to beat Hatton? Did Witter really deserve inclusion in the best Pound for Pound lists?

Its a hard one to say.

For sure, Witter is a good fighter.... but is he as good as people think he was? Hard to say, due to lack of activity.

Or put directly- maybe in time a legend will grow up that Hatton avoid Witter because Witter was the better fighter... Is that deserved?


I mean- Witter is a classy fighter, and was a good World Champion, but is he actually as good as people (in the boxing community) think?

I called for a Witter-Hatton fight as loudly as anybody, was even among those who thought he'd beat Hatton, but I have to say Witter blew it against Bradley. Unfortunately that showed his level. I don't think he's over-rated anymore.

twenty six wrote:Carlos,
My old man always says the writing was on the wall for Cooper way before the Ali Patterson fights.
He refers to the fight in Sweden for the Euro title against Johanneson in 1957 when he got ko'd in the 5th.
Never seen it, but interestingly enough I was at a function with Cooper a few weeks ago and when I asked him about this fight he went quiet and just said Johanneson was a good fighter.
I found Cooper to be very bitter about modern day fighters. He was very dismissive about most fighters from the 80's forward.
Preferred to talk about the Ali injustice, and Brut !
Cooper stands for everything we Brits like.
A nearly man who endears himself to joe public through a perceived injustice.

Oh yeah mate, I don't think there was ever a time Cooper was THE no1 heavyweight contender at any stage of his career. I saw a photo of the Johnasson KO and it was in an outdoor arena (the Ullevi stadium in Gothenburg) and what Cooper said in his autobiography is that the Swedish promoters made sure his corner was in the reflection of the sun and when he got floored in his corner - the sun was going down and he couldn't see the referee blahblah and basically blamed the sun for losing the fight because according to him - he was winning every round against Johansson.

He has an excuse for most of his losses (bar the ones he lost on a cut)

Ingemar Johnasson - It was the sun
Joe Byrgraves - was winning every round but Joe decided to hit 'Enry in the gut (no rematch either funnily enough)
Erich Schoppner - robbed by a hometown referee
Muhammad Ali - well it was his 'negro features wasn't it!'
Roger Rischer - Had a cold
Amos Johnson - Came in too heavy
Joe Bugner - robbed by Harry Gibbs

All these crappy excuses are in his 1971 autobiography (which is a decent read to be honest) if any of you want the source. (Apart from the Ali BS excuse which was on a sky documentary about their fights circa 1994)

I have never liked the way he has treated Bruno - Frank has some interesting views about his public realtionship with Cooper in one of his autobiographies.

Thanks for that Carlos.
I'll get hold of a copy of the autobiog.
What exactlydid Bruno say about him ?

twenty six wrote:Thanks for that Carlos.
I'll get hold of a copy of the autobiog.
What exactlydid Bruno say about him ?

Bruno said that when he is Henry's age he hoped he would be more supportive and less critical
of fighters boxing in the present, he said Cooper was a good fighter though. Bugner said some quite scathing things about Cooper in the book
'Facing Ali' which was quite interesting because Bugner was quite forthright about it Cooper and his attiudes (which are a contrast to
his 'nice guy' public persona)

The first Cooper autobiography is out of print and I don't know here you could get hold of one but I thought it was a damn good read - despite
the excuses of when he lost.

It was a different era when Cooper was fighting, you had to have the public face , be nice when asked, and never slag people off.

Of course he would of thought differently about alot of his opponents in private, i mean the object of the game is to knock people out, you can't do that all the time and like everyone!

The problem I had with him, having met him for the first time was his very brutal dismissal of modern day boxers.
This was a private event - there were only 30 of us there - and that included some present day boxers but he just dissed them, in honesty.

yeah, i'm always find it a bit awkward meeting boxers i like.

Ian,
Eh ?
I'm a dumb northerner - don't get your meaning - or is it sarcasm ?

Joe Calzaghe and Amir Khan

De la Hoya.

Re "overrated" - nowadays so many fighters are slagged off on blogs and message boards that it might be diffiuclt to call any overrated!

joe bugner,always came in shape,but frankly never looked like he was too interested,he ran away from ali twice

twenty six wrote:Ian,
Eh ?
I'm a dumb northerner - don't get your meaning - or is it sarcasm ?

Sorry mate, what i meant was i've met a few boxers that i'm a fan of, and a couple have been a bit of a 'tit' . Not quite what i expected from them

But the vast majority have all been friendly and nice to talk to.

Roy Jones Jnr

His career is littered by fighters he didnt fight in his prime. Benn, Eubank, Calzaghe, Michelwaski(spelling), McLellan, Toney rematch( no its not Jones fault that Toney was indisciplined but still shouldhave fought him again) an I'm sure there are others I have missed. He happily fights Ricky Frazier ad Glen Kelly but then hoodwinks the gioverning bodies into initially quetionning the worthiness of Tarver and forcing him to fight an eliminator with Eric Harding. He goes up to win the title against Ruiz( Good achievement) and upon realising that everyone else looks a bit tough he quickly ran back down to LHW

Used to having everything his own way and when his speed doesnt kill he didnt have the natural boing ability to get himself out of a jam. His meek showing against Calzaghe affects his legacy for me. A true champion leaves it on the line and risks getting stopped but he seemed to take some sort of moral victory out of going the distance. He said that Joe would have to kill him to win and I belived him. More fool me..

And to top it all off he is fighting Omar Sheika in March.......... on PPV


I epect to get murdered for my pick but please focus on the boxing and not whether I'm an idiot or other expletive

ACTIVE...

1) DLH
2) Hatton


Retired

1) Minter

2) Minter!

Who said Herol Graham?

Lost a split decision to a peak Mike Mccallum and that was because Herol lost a point for a cheeky punch.

Whoever said Herol Graham has made a mistake.

whoever said Hopkins i thing has made a mistake.

My problem with Cooper, well the main one, is when asked to present Prizes at an Amatuer Show in1980 He wanted 2 grand. So instead we got Terry Downes for nothing who gave the Club £200 as a gift. Class

Scrap wrote:My problem with Cooper, well the main one, is when asked to present Prizes at an Amatuer Show in1980 He wanted 2 grand. So instead we got Terry Downes for nothing who gave the Club £200 as a gift. Class

Maybe Henry knew he would lose well over £100K when the Lloyds names' ( he was one) had a bad year.

He had to sell 3 Lonsdale Belts to try and recoup some of his losses...


Karma?

Shane Mosley, not so much now but the hype job he was getting 6-7 years ago I thought was OTT, good fighter no doubt but I never thought he was ATG material.

Autobarn wrote:De la Hoya

And what more would have had him do? King Kong fell to his death and Jaws got blown up.