Saul 'Canelo' Alvarez vs. Callum Smith - 19 December 2020

[Neil Gee]

I had it closer than two of the judges but not by much, two rounds to Smith and one even.

It was a gutsy performance from Smith but he didn't have the variety nor the power to deal with a Canelo who consistently walked into range to counter Smith's height and reach advantages with total disregard for those advantages.

Canelo showed that he is held in such high regard for a reason, the combination of attack with defense in that he would close in with head movement and right hand high so that Smith could rarely nail him and even when he did Canelo proved his chin is solid and he was going nowhere.

Some were calling for Smith's corner to pull him out around the 9th/10th rounds as he was taking a systematic beating by then. Canelo just had too much of everything for him.

I'm glad Smith finished the fight for the sake of his pride but you could see the way Callum was looking up at the clock to see how long was left in the fight in that last round that he was well beaten. All he wanted was to hear that final bell.

[littlepug]

Bit disappointing that Smith didn’t grab this opportunity by the scruff of the neck, there was no indication that Smith was the champion, he certainly didn’t box with the confidence a world champ should have and almost immediately went on the back foot which told Canelo everything he needed to know, even in defeat Smith could’ve made a name for himself and raised his stock (and earning power) if he had shown some conviction and confidence and gone for it, a missed opportunity he might never get again.

[Omerta]

Yeah Let’s call a spade a spade he looks juiced up, but you start to wonder who isn’t… Triple G looked it on Friday night.

Someone mentioned Marvin Hagler the other day which shocked me but… God knows

At least Callum doesn’t ..

There was probably more juice being used back then in haglers day than there is now it would of been so easy for them to hide it plus it would of been far stronger

[stujones]

I really do have an issue ranking Canelo at the # 1 P4P fighter when I think he has 4 loses against his 3 best opponents and one of them was very comprehensive (I also had Lara a clear winner) but now it's like no one really wants that crown of being p4p #1 either.. GGG hasnt looked great recently, Usyk is now a heavyweight and should be ranked as so, Lighter wait guys, maybe. Loma lost, bit to early for Lopez and someone like Taylor. Crawford? definately has tools but last two opponents are sadly no longer top drawer. Fury...needs Joshua....

I'd probably say it's now between Crawford and Canelo

[Covfefe]

I really do have an issue ranking Canelo at the # 1 P4P fighter when I think he has 4 loses against his 3 best opponents and one of them was very comprehensive (I also had Lara a clear winner) but now it's like no one really wants that crown of being p4p #1 either.. GGG hasnt looked great recently, Usyk is now a heavyweight and should be ranked as so, Lighter wait guys, maybe. Loma lost, bit to early for Lopez and someone like Taylor. Crawford? definately has tools but last two opponents are sadly no longer top drawer. Fury...needs Joshua....

I'd probably say it's now between Crawford and Canelo

Four losses?

Assume you mean Golovkin? Didn’t think he won the first but thought he did the second.

I’d discount the Mayweather loss entirely when ranking him too in this era.

Who’s the other loss too?

[stujones]

I thought Lara beat him also...more clearly than GGG infact.

I dont think you can discount the Mayweather loss. It wasnt a green teenager...he was a long time champion and in many p4p lists back then...and the manner of the loss was also a factor. If Joshua beats Fury and then Wilder KOs Joshua it would always been a job to rank Wilder in the upper echelons of the p4p lists based on the manner of his fury loss.

I dont think there has ever been a p4p #1 who was outclassed before becoming the #1

[Covfefe]

I thought Lara beat him also...more clearly than GGG infact.

I dont think you can discount the Mayweather loss. It wasnt a green teenager...he was a long time champion and in many p4p lists back then...and the manner of the loss was also a factor. If Joshua beats Fury and then Wilder KOs Joshua it would always been a job to rank Wilder in the upper echelons of the p4p lists based on the manner of his fury loss.

I dont think there has ever been a p4p #1 who was outclassed before becoming the #1

I don’t think he was green either, I just think he’s much better now. I don’t think Mayweather would beat him as easily at all now.

I haven’t seen the Lara right, will watch that soon then.

My point about disregarding the Mayweather fight is because he’d do as decent a job on anyone you’re currently ranking him against imo.

[stujones]

Thats true...although Crawford is the unproven potential one who might be the answer.

I remember Bunce did a p4p list surely 18 odd years back on sky and he said " a good p4p list should be that the fighters at 1-10 should be able to hang and compete at least with anyone of any era in their weight division "..I vividly remember he had Kostya Tszyu, just post Judah at 10! Kostya Tszyu! and there were no complaints it was a bad list.

My main problem is exactly that though, I dont think I've ever, in all my years watching boxing, have ever seen a p4p fighter being outclassed BEFORE getting to the top of the summit. Canelo would be the first and thats why it doesnt sit well

Leonard, Hagler, Tyson, Chavez, Lopez, Roy Jones, Mosley, Trinidad, Mayweather...never outclassed before getting the top spot..Canelo would be the first

[Covfefe]

Thats true...although Crawford is the unproven potential one who might be the answer.

I remember Bunce did a p4p list surely 18 odd years back on sky and he said " a good p4p list should be that the fighters at 1-10 should be able to hang and compete at least with anyone of any era in their weight division "..I vividly remember he had Kostya Tszyu, just post Judah at 10! Kostya Tszyu! and there were no complaints it was a bad list.

My main problem is exactly that though, I dont think I've ever, in all my years watching boxing, have ever seen a p4p fighter being outclassed BEFORE getting to the top of the summit. Canelo would be the first and thats why it doesnt sit well

Leonard, Hagler, Tyson, Chavez, Lopez, Roy Jones, Mosley, Trinidad, Mayweather...never outclassed before getting the top spot..Canelo would be the first

See this highlights the problem.

How people compile their lists.

I do p4p based on today. If we had to compare fighters to the best of their era the lists wouldn’t work imo.

I don’t think there’s any better fighters fighting right now than Canelo, Crawford would be my number two though.

[Nondescript]

What on Earth could Bellew be implying here

He’s always been a big guy. When he was catchweighting at 155, he was what? 23-25 years old? He probably used to enter the ring over 170 anyway.. he’s just been good at cutting weight. And he’s obviously put on natural weight as he’s grown. He’s what now? 29 years old?

Exactly. He was basically making weight and then rehydrating about 20lbs and massively outweighing his opponent on fight night.

[Covfefe]

What on Earth could Bellew be implying here

He’s always been a big guy. When he was catchweighting at 155, he was what? 23-25 years old? He probably used to enter the ring over 170 anyway.. he’s just been good at cutting weight. And he’s obviously put on natural weight as he’s grown. He’s what now? 29 years old?

Exactly. He was basically making weight and then rehydrating about 20lbs and massively outweighing his opponent on fight night.

Was watching highlights of the Cotto fight before and he is clearly so much bigger despite being a similar height, though Cotto wasn’t the largest middleweight but you see my point.

[Nondescript]

I think Canelo must have cut a tonne of weight to make 147, but even at 175 he looked rock solid.

Like I said, theres loads of fighters at it, and I would be astonished if hes not frankly. However, it's his skills that are enabling him to win, not just his brute strength.

The fact he just brutalized Smith, is pretty remarkable.

If the current crop of heavyweights weren't so big, I'd not be surprised if he had a pop at heavy. Sounds mental I know, but both his defences and chin are really very good.

In fact, I still reckon he might fancy a pop at it at the end of his career.

Exactly. If all of his success was down to juicing, we'd be talking about Larry Olubamiwo being one of the greatest heavyweights of all time right now.

[Nondescript]

I thought Lara beat him also...more clearly than GGG infact.

I dont think you can discount the Mayweather loss. It wasnt a green teenager...he was a long time champion and in many p4p lists back then...and the manner of the loss was also a factor. If Joshua beats Fury and then Wilder KOs Joshua it would always been a job to rank Wilder in the upper echelons of the p4p lists based on the manner of his fury loss.

I dont think there has ever been a p4p #1 who was outclassed before becoming the #1

I had Canelo beating Lara 7 rounds to 5. Lara was far too negative in that fight and Canelo was still landing a lot.

[Nondescript]

He’s always been a big guy. When he was catchweighting at 155, he was what? 23-25 years old? He probably used to enter the ring over 170 anyway.. he’s just been good at cutting weight. And he’s obviously put on natural weight as he’s grown. He’s what now? 29 years old?

Exactly. He was basically making weight and then rehydrating about 20lbs and massively outweighing his opponent on fight night.

Was watching highlights of the Cotto fight before and he is clearly so much bigger despite being a similar height, though Cotto wasn’t the largest middleweight but you see my point.

Yeah. The guy is short but really stocky. His neck is fuckin huge, which must play a big part in how good his chin is imo.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

Canelo getting underrated on here.

He’s not being underrated the man is a great fighter, Let’s keep things in perspective though. He got played with by Mayweather, he arguably lost both fights against Golovkin (no question he lost the first) and a lot of people thought he was lucky to get the decision against Lara.

- Thanks for making it so easy for me, but first congrats to Callum for putting his all in when most all would've folded. That was brutal.

Canelo had just turned 23 and had been pushing hard for Floyd a long time before, but no deal until he agreed to a 152 lb catchweight where he was so drained as to be a dangerous shade of blue on the scales. Then the 165 lb rehydration limit after he'd been entering the ring in the mid 170s prior. MGM stocked full with Floyd judges and ref, Bayliss, whereas his promoter, Oscar, mysteriously developed a case of drug induced Vapors to enter into noncommunicado Drug rehab the day of the weigh in, ie no protection provided. Through the first 5 rds Bayliss all over Canelo like a straight jacket, the worst being after an exchange where he ended up in a Floyd choke hold. After waiting fruitlessly for Bayliss to break, he taps Floyd on the thigh with a "Hey, Man, let loose" gesture. Bayliss belatedly breaks and issues a low blow warning that Canelo can't understand because he was the one getting fouled.

Mission accomplished, Bayliss backs off so the now confused Canelo can work back into the fight with too little, too late effort, and so where was Floyd after he turned 23? Boxrec being our friend here shows an aging featherwt Gregario Vargas years from his best in that title fight, and then a 0.500 journeyman Emmanuel Augustus in a nontitle fight. Not a lot of ambition shown to be sure.

The Golovkin fights close, the first fight with me having Canelo 1 pt, so well satisfied with the draw since I score even rounds that shows where any controversy may lay. The 2nd fight delayed by GGG and Loeffler who ganged Canelo with the Vegas Commish who made up a new "Canelo" rule on the spot of Zero drug tolerance to delay that fight 6 months. Canelo had two ghost nanogram positives in the middle of drug testing well below the fail protocol consistent with food contamination that every country on the planet has. Reputation besmirched by modern internet panties in a twist, the delayed rematch Canelo stakes out ring center and blasts GGG away every time he attempts an advance, a clear win on my card and hence no reason for the rubber for GGG who lost his mojo with that fight by his own stupid hand in getting Canelo suspended that provided exta motivation.

A runner/stinker like Lara? Really? Geez, talk about low blows

[SticknMove]

Canelo is a fantastic fighter that could have hung out with the best of the past. Whether he would have been as successful back then is just a subjective talking point. He is definitely top of the tree right NOW.

Think Crawford is a special fighter. He would top my list. But that is just subjective bias.

Using a relatively 'green' very talented Smith as a measure to how good Canelo is doesn't do either any real justice. The hopping through weight categories doesn't make anything clearer except that matchups takes years to make.

[Covfefe]

I was just skimming Canelo’s record, didn’t know he’d fought Boldomir...then found out Boldomir is serving 18 years in prison for molesting his daughter for 2 years. Jesus.

[oogiebe]

I was just skimming Canelo’s record, didn’t know he’d fought Boldomir...then found out Boldomir is serving 18 years in prison for molesting his daughter for 2 years. Jesus.

Never knew that about Boldomir. He should rot in hell. Unfathamable.

[Covfefe]

I was just skimming Canelo’s record, didn’t know he’d fought Boldomir...then found out Boldomir is serving 18 years in prison for molesting his daughter for 2 years. Jesus.

Never knew that about Boldomir. He should rot in hell. Unfathamable.

Horrible story. I remember the Mayweather fight, couldn’t say much else about his career but was shocked to read that.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc. ... a-49191065

[oogiebe]

I was just skimming Canelo’s record, didn’t know he’d fought Boldomir...then found out Boldomir is serving 18 years in prison for molesting his daughter for 2 years. Jesus.

Never knew that about Boldomir. He should rot in hell. Unfathamable.

Horrible story. I remember the Mayweather fight, couldn’t say much else about his career but was shocked to read that.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc. ... a-49191065

Just read it. Sick individual.

[SticknMove]

Yep it is.

Thank goodness Frodo came out ok.

[cormack]

Yeah Let’s call a spade a spade he looks juiced up, but you start to wonder who isn’t… Triple G looked it on Friday night.

Someone mentioned Marvin Hagler the other day which shocked me but… God knows

At least Callum doesn’t ..

perhaps there are some substances that cant be traced with todays test regime....

That aside Smith is too easy to hit , doesnt move enough and just lacks the skill at this level .
If he is to come back for a title at 175 then IMHO gallagher will not be the man to get him there .

[smiling assassin]

Canelo getting underrated on here.

He’s not being underrated the man is a great fighter, Let’s keep things in perspective though. He got played with by Mayweather, he arguably lost both fights against Golovkin (no question he lost the first) and a lot of people thought he was lucky to get the decision against Lara.

- Thanks for making it so easy for me, but first congrats to Callum for putting his all in when most all would've folded. That was brutal.

Canelo had just turned 23 and had been pushing hard for Floyd a long time before, but no deal until he agreed to a 152 lb catchweight where he was so drained as to be a dangerous shade of blue on the scales. Then the 165 lb rehydration limit after he'd been entering the ring in the mid 170s prior. MGM stocked full with Floyd judges and ref, Bayliss, whereas his promoter, Oscar, mysteriously developed a case of drug induced Vapors to enter into noncommunicado Drug rehab the day of the weigh in, ie no protection provided. Through the first 5 rds Bayliss all over Canelo like a straight jacket, the worst being after an exchange where he ended up in a Floyd choke hold. After waiting fruitlessly for Bayliss to break, he taps Floyd on the thigh with a "Hey, Man, let loose" gesture. Bayliss belatedly breaks and issues a low blow warning that Canelo can't understand because he was the one getting fouled.

Mission accomplished, Bayliss backs off so the now confused Canelo can work back into the fight with too little, too late effort, and so where was Floyd after he turned 23? Boxrec being our friend here shows an aging featherwt Gregario Vargas years from his best in that title fight, and then a 0.500 journeyman Emmanuel Augustus in a nontitle fight. Not a lot of ambition shown to be sure.

The Golovkin fights close, the first fight with me having Canelo 1 pt, so well satisfied with the draw since I score even rounds that shows where any controversy may lay. The 2nd fight delayed by GGG and Loeffler who ganged Canelo with the Vegas Commish who made up a new "Canelo" rule on the spot of Zero drug tolerance to delay that fight 6 months. Canelo had two ghost nanogram positives in the middle of drug testing well below the fail protocol consistent with food contamination that every country on the planet has. Reputation besmirched by modern internet panties in a twist, the delayed rematch Canelo stakes out ring center and blasts GGG away every time he attempts an advance, a clear win on my card and hence no reason for the rubber for GGG who lost his mojo with that fight by his own stupid hand in getting Canelo suspended that provided exta motivation.

A runner/stinker like Lara? Really? Geez, talk about low blows

[brilo33]

with out knowning hindsight, i was dissapointed with smith performance, seemed to start ok was landinding a few shots when he threw , but saul walked him down and beat him up with no come back .i thought after the 5th smith gave up,just threw enough punches in the rds so it never got stopped was thinking had he broke his hand in the 4th, i think it was the 8th or 9th rd i see smith after the corner came to centre of the ring for the start of the 9th and it looked like he was kicking a bit rubbish or a stone on the floor head down looking at the floor bad sign werent engaged with what was going on around him , i thought he might be suffering depression , i mean he werent focused on saul, then more of the same tucked up and lasted the fight out, on the other saul was good ,very fast with his counters pushed smith back well, problay would have got the ko if smith threw back, good win for canelo , knowing now he was injured not sure he still didnt have high work rate didnt even move well , not sure were goes smith goes from here

[brilo33]

I had smith wining 1st round maybe 2nd. I heard he suffered a bad injury in round 2. You can’t expect much after that. I think it would of been interesting with Smith not injured

i agree there werent much in those rds smith laned a few shots, it was slow paced first couple