Ratings - please read before commenting

[computerrank]

- BoxRec extended the winner above loser rule to 36 months. This keeps Usyk as #1 heavyweights.
- BoxRec reduced the division weight factor from 2 to 1. This moves the higher weight divisions to higher ranks in the p4p ratings. Usyk is #12 now there.

[Simon Lock]

- BoxRec extended the winner above loser rule to 36 months. This keeps Usyk as #1 heavyweights.
- BoxRec reduced the division weight factor from 2 to 1. This moves the higher weight divisions to higher ranks in the p4p ratings. Usyk is #12 now there.

Ring have Usyk at #1 P4P.
ESPN, TBRB and Bad Left Hook had him at #3 P4P before the Fury win, and he will presumably have moved higher now.

Even after this adjustment, Boxrec rankings are clearly very different with Usyk at #12. Are you comfortable being the only major ranking organisation not recognising Usyk as an elite p4p fighter?

[computerrank]

- BoxRec extended the winner above loser rule to 36 months. This keeps Usyk as #1 heavyweights.
- BoxRec reduced the division weight factor from 2 to 1. This moves the higher weight divisions to higher ranks in the p4p ratings. Usyk is #12 now there.

Ring have Usyk at #1 P4P.
ESPN, TBRB and Bad Left Hook had him at #3 P4P before the Fury win, and he will presumably have moved higher now.

Even after this adjustment, Boxrec rankings are clearly very different with Usyk at #12. Are you comfortable being the only major ranking organisation not recognising Usyk as an elite p4p fighter?

BoxRec p4p ratings are only a byproduct of the BoxRec divisional ratings. There is no general accepted opinion on how it should be calculated. So yes, I am quite comfortable with seeing all the other opinions on p4p ratings.

[JCS]

- BoxRec extended the winner above loser rule to 36 months. This keeps Usyk as #1 heavyweights.
- BoxRec reduced the division weight factor from 2 to 1. This moves the higher weight divisions to higher ranks in the p4p ratings. Usyk is #12 now there.

Ring have Usyk at #1 P4P.
ESPN, TBRB and Bad Left Hook had him at #3 P4P before the Fury win, and he will presumably have moved higher now.

Even after this adjustment, Boxrec rankings are clearly very different with Usyk at #12. Are you comfortable being the only major ranking organisation not recognising Usyk as an elite p4p fighter?

#12 is elite... especially for a Heavyweight.

[JCS]

Fury phoning it in and almost losing to 0-0 Ngannou is the kind of thing that breaks computerized ranking systems, as it did here.

Ngannou then getting trashed by Joshua... did not help either.

To me, I did not think AJ ranked #1 was that strange.. obviously I'm used to seeing and handling this kind of weird shit over in the MMA world... but think about it...

AJ loses a close split against Usyk, so he's obviously right there in terms of quality.

Meanwhile, Fury gets taken to the brink by an 0-0 fighter, who AJ pummels.

Then Usyk and Fury basically prove themselves as even.

To me, they are pretty interchangeable, with Usyk above Fury.... whether it's AJ, Usyk, Fury or Usyk, AJ, Fury or Usyk, Fury, AJ.

The weirdest part to me, is seeing Agit Kabayel in the mix with them....

[computerrank]

Fury phoning it in and almost losing to 0-0 Ngannou is the kind of thing that breaks computerized ranking systems, as it did here.

Ngannou then getting trashed by Joshua... did not help either.

To me, I did not think AJ ranked #1 was that strange.. obviously I'm used to seeing and handling this kind of weird shit over in the MMA world... but think about it...

AJ loses a close split against Usyk, so he's obviously right there in terms of quality.

Meanwhile, Fury gets taken to the brink by an 0-0 fighter, who AJ pummels.

Then Usyk and Fury basically prove themselves as even.

To me, they are pretty interchangeable, with Usyk above Fury.... whether it's AJ, Usyk, Fury or Usyk, AJ, Fury or Usyk, Fury, AJ.

The weirdest part to me, is seeing Agit Kabayel in the mix with them....

Usyk and Joshua a very close. But Tyson Fury has dropped to the mix after them.

Code: Select all

  1 Heavyweight           659772 Oleksandr Usyk                 UA 22.32   3.4 1
  2 Heavyweight           659461 Anthony Joshua                 GB 22.12   4.0 1
  3 Heavyweight           575332 Agit Kabayel                   DE 13.89   3.8 1
  4 Heavyweight           479205 Tyson Fury                     GB 13.73   3.9 1
  5 Heavyweight           613846 Joseph Parker                  NZ 10.70   2.3 1
  6 Heavyweight           787430 Daniel Dubois                  GB 8.719   2.7 1
  7 Heavyweight           861332 Jared Anderson                 US 8.570   3.4 1
  8 Heavyweight           813758 Filip Hrgovic                  HR 8.196   3.7 1
  9 Heavyweight           692149 Zhilei Zhang                   CN 6.948   2.9 1
 10 Heavyweight           811429 Joe Joyce                      GB 6.857   3.4 1

[JCS]

Fury phoning it in and almost losing to 0-0 Ngannou is the kind of thing that breaks computerized ranking systems, as it did here.

Ngannou then getting trashed by Joshua... did not help either.

To me, I did not think AJ ranked #1 was that strange.. obviously I'm used to seeing and handling this kind of weird shit over in the MMA world... but think about it...

AJ loses a close split against Usyk, so he's obviously right there in terms of quality.

Meanwhile, Fury gets taken to the brink by an 0-0 fighter, who AJ pummels.

Then Usyk and Fury basically prove themselves as even.

To me, they are pretty interchangeable, with Usyk above Fury.... whether it's AJ, Usyk, Fury or Usyk, AJ, Fury or Usyk, Fury, AJ.

The weirdest part to me, is seeing Agit Kabayel in the mix with them....

Usyk and Joshua a very close. But Tyson Fury has dropped to the mix after them.

Code: Select all

  1 Heavyweight           659772 Oleksandr Usyk                 UA 22.32   3.4 1
  2 Heavyweight           659461 Anthony Joshua                 GB 22.12   4.0 1
  3 Heavyweight           575332 Agit Kabayel                   DE 13.89   3.8 1
  4 Heavyweight           479205 Tyson Fury                     GB 13.73   3.9 1
  5 Heavyweight           613846 Joseph Parker                  NZ 10.70   2.3 1
  6 Heavyweight           787430 Daniel Dubois                  GB 8.719   2.7 1
  7 Heavyweight           861332 Jared Anderson                 US 8.570   3.4 1
  8 Heavyweight           813758 Filip Hrgovic                  HR 8.196   3.7 1
  9 Heavyweight           692149 Zhilei Zhang                   CN 6.948   2.9 1
 10 Heavyweight           811429 Joe Joyce                      GB 6.857   3.4 1

Makes sense to me. I am surprised at how high Kabayel is ranked....

What were Usyk and Fury before the fight?

[computerrank]

...
What were Usyk and Fury before the fight?

Code: Select all

  1 Heavyweight           659772 Oleksandr Usyk                 UA 24.80   4.1 1
  2 Heavyweight           659461 Anthony Joshua                 GB 22.12   4.0 1
  3 Heavyweight           479205 Tyson Fury                     GB 14.02   5.9 1
  4 Heavyweight           575332 Agit Kabayel                   DE 13.89   3.8 1

[JCS]

So they both lost points..... interesting..

[joshj909]

How is Jared Anderson ranked #7 at heavyweight despite never having a 3 star fight?

Dubois has never won a 4 star fight and is ranked #6. He only has two 3 star wins.

Hrgovic beat Zhang in a 4 star fight and is #9. Hrgovic is also the guy that beat the guy that beat the guy that beat Dubois so surely the points should have accumulated upwards to Hrgovic? Dubois Is above Joyce who beat him, Zhang who beat Joyce and Hrgovic who beat Zhang. All in recent years.

It looks like a series of low level fights is more important than big wins.

[computerrank]

How is Jared Anderson ranked #7 at heavyweight despite never having a 3 star fight?

Dubois has never won a 4 star fight and is ranked #6. He only has two 3 star wins.

Hrgovic beat Zhang in a 4 star fight and is #9. Hrgovic is also the guy that beat the guy that beat the guy that beat Dubois so surely the points should have accumulated upwards to Hrgovic? Dubois Is above Joyce who beat him, Zhang who beat Joyce and Hrgovic who beat Zhang. All in recent years.

It looks like a series of low level fights is more important than big wins.

Stars are only a raw indicator for the level. BoxRec ratings use the exact points.

Dubois got a TKO against Larena (4.4 points) and a TKO against Miller (3.1 points). Duboi's loss against Joyce if out of scope - more than 3 years gone.

Anderson got a wide UD against Merhy (2.2 points), a wide UD against Martin (2.0 points), a RTD against Arias (1.3 points) and a TKO against Forrest (1.1 points).

Hrgovic got a close UD against Zhang (5.3 points) and a KO against McKean (2.3 points).

The ratings balancing out that all show:

Code: Select all

  6 Heavyweight           787430 Daniel Dubois                  GB 8.717   2.7 1
  7 Heavyweight           861332 Jared Anderson                 US 8.569   3.4 1
  8 Heavyweight           813758 Filip Hrgovic                  HR 8.194   3.7 1
  9 Heavyweight           692149 Zhilei Zhang                   CN 6.946   2.9 1
 10 Heavyweight           811429 Joe Joyce                      GB 6.855   3.4 1

[joshj909]

How is Jared Anderson ranked #7 at heavyweight despite never having a 3 star fight?

Dubois has never won a 4 star fight and is ranked #6. He only has two 3 star wins.

Hrgovic beat Zhang in a 4 star fight and is #9. Hrgovic is also the guy that beat the guy that beat the guy that beat Dubois so surely the points should have accumulated upwards to Hrgovic? Dubois Is above Joyce who beat him, Zhang who beat Joyce and Hrgovic who beat Zhang. All in recent years.

It looks like a series of low level fights is more important than big wins.

Stars are only a raw indicator for the level. BoxRec ratings use the exact points.

Dubois got a TKO against Larena (4.4 points) and a TKO against Miller (3.1 points). Duboi's loss against Joyce if out of scope - more than 3 years gone.

Anderson got a wide UD against Merhy (2.2 points), a wide UD against Martin (2.0 points), a RTD against Arias (1.3 points) and a TKO against Forrest (1.1 points).

Hrgovic got a close UD against Zhang (5.3 points) and a KO against McKean (2.3 points).

The ratings balancing out that all show:

Code: Select all

  6 Heavyweight           787430 Daniel Dubois                  GB 8.717   2.7 1
  7 Heavyweight           861332 Jared Anderson                 US 8.569   3.4 1
  8 Heavyweight           813758 Filip Hrgovic                  HR 8.194   3.7 1
  9 Heavyweight           692149 Zhilei Zhang                   CN 6.946   2.9 1
 10 Heavyweight           811429 Joe Joyce                      GB 6.855   3.4 1

So it's the wins over Lerena and Merhy which may have skewed the points. Two guys that have moved up in weight. Carrying too many points up the weightclass it seems.

[Ing_rant]

people, calm down, we see that boxrec does not want to admit that their automated system, which they have redesigned thousands of times, simply does not work. Instead of thinking about adjusting the ranking formula, they say that they are comfortable seeing Usyk in 12th place in p4p. Let's just treat boxrec like an encyclopedia.

[computerrank]

people, calm down, we see that boxrec does not want to admit that their automated system, which they have redesigned thousands of times, simply does not work. Instead of thinking about adjusting the ranking formula, they say that they are comfortable seeing Usyk in 12th place in p4p. Let's just treat boxrec like an encyclopedia.

This is the discussion thread about the rating algorithm, not whether BoxRec should have ratings or not. BoxRec ratings have improved the winner prediction ratio from about 72 percent in 2002 to 86.57 percent now. And everybody is free to enjoy BoxRec as an encyclopedia anyway.

[Manrae]

people, calm down, we see that boxrec does not want to admit that their automated system, which they have redesigned thousands of times, simply does not work. Instead of thinking about adjusting the ranking formula, they say that they are comfortable seeing Usyk in 12th place in p4p. Let's just treat boxrec like an encyclopedia.

Records are incomplete and inaccurate...

https://www.wbaboxing.com/wba-boxer-profile?id=17591
11-0? ... But according to votes from boxrec's staff opinions
https://www.ibf-usba-boxing.com/ratings/
I wonder who Nunez KO'd to get that #1 spot

[computerrank]

...
Records are incomplete and inaccurate...

https://www.wbaboxing.com/wba-boxer-profile?id=17591
11-0? ... But according to votes from boxrec's staff opinions
https://www.ibf-usba-boxing.com/ratings/
I wonder who Nunez KO'd to get that #1 spot

Tame your temper, Manrae . You KNOW, this is not the right place to discuss that.

[JCS]

Martin... If you rank all of the Bridgerweights as Heavyweights... do any of them rank in the Top 10? 25? etc?

[computerrank]

Martin... If you rank all of the Bridgerweights as Heavyweights... do any of them rank in the Top 10? 25? etc?

Okolie #6

[1119028]

Hello, I am Turkish professional Boxer Selçuk Aydın, first of all, I wish you success in your work. I would like to ask you a question, I have been ranked 1st in the boxrec Turkish bpksörler rankings for about 10 years, but I fell behind my inactive friend in the rankings for a few months, can I know the reason for this?

[computerrank]

Hello, I am Turkish professional Boxer Selçuk Aydın, first of all, I wish you success in your work. I would like to ask you a question, I have been ranked 1st in the boxrec Turkish bpksörler rankings for about 10 years, but I fell behind my inactive friend in the rankings for a few months, can I know the reason for this?

You are by far the best ranked Turkish boxer at all time Welterweight. Only the Light Welterweight Kamac is in front of you at all time Light Welterweight.

Code: Select all

53.516 		Kamaci 		Light  Welterweight
41.3359 	Aydin 	 	Welterweight
15.9847 	Samil Sam 	Heavyweight

[1119028]

Thank you for your answer, but you misunderstood me, I was first in all weight rankings among Turkish boxers for about 10 years, and now I am in second place. My friend Cemal Kamacı, whom you listed first, is an athlete who stopped playing matches before me and he has been behind me in this ranking for 10 years. He is an important athlete, but my question is why a friend of mine who has been behind me for 10 years is now ahead of me.

[joshj909]

Thank you for your answer, but you misunderstood me, I was first in all weight rankings among Turkish boxers for about 10 years, and now I am in second place. My friend Cemal Kamacı, whom you listed first, is an athlete who stopped playing matches before me and he has been behind me in this ranking for 10 years. He is an important athlete, but my question is why a friend of mine who has been behind me for 10 years is now ahead of me.

They adjust the algorithm for the rankings every now and then when they spot mistakes in the rankings. Therefore ratings change despite no fights happening. It's supposed to try and make it more accurate but sometimes it makes things look out of place.

[1119028]

I think there is a mistake in the ranking of Turkish Boxers, I request it to be corrected.

[computerrank]

I think there is a mistake in the ranking of Turkish Boxers, I request it to be corrected.

There is no mistake. The ratings algorithm has changed over the last months. That may also affect the all time ratings.

[JCS]

On the questionable all-time ranking topic.. this seems weird....

Found myself doing some random browsing -- ended up looking at Poland all-time P4P ratings.

Thought Adamek would be #1... forgot about Michalczewski.. he is #1, I am OK with that.

However, Adamek is #3..... and Eddie Ran? (52-59 record) is at #2.... Now Ran did have a horrible second-half of his career... but I can't see how he is above Adamek.

Checked the annual rankings in the Wiki. Can't find Eddie. Whereas Adamek can be found in three divisions, every year from 2005-2013.

Feels like there may be too much emphasis on wins "average_5_top_defeated_opponents", which obviously tilts the scales toward the older boxers, as they fought many more times than boxers of today... was not uncommon for a boxer getting a win over a good name because they fought several times. Then again, with Ran, that DQ win against Ceferino Garcia may really be helping his rating.

Anyway, that's my two cents.