BoxRec

Well, jake La Motta was asked how well Oscar De La Hoya would have been in his era of "one" world champion in each division and La Motta stated that he would have been a top eight fighter at most. Now that is LaMotta's opinion, but he was making the simple statement, that a lot of today's "world champions" would'nt have entered the top ten in his day, because there was only one world champion to each division and so the competition to fight the champion would have made the more average fighter's fall before the big prize was in sight. If you don't understand that simple argument, then you really don't have the acumen to pontifcate on my post and say it's a "pretty stupid statement". It's actually a very sensible statement to make and a viewpoint that is widely shared by many people

Thats not an argument? are you saying the top 8 fighters in la mottas era werent considered worlds class. If you have a world title it DOES automatically make you world class hence the WORLD bit in WORLD title.

Autobarn wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Some World Class Aspects of His Game

Speed (few faster), Workrate/Pace, Movement, Jab, Heart, Height/Reach (big advantages), a style thats now working for him

Some Substandard Aspects of his Game

Power (makes Mayweather look like Arguello), Chin (better now tucked though), Defense (much improved but will still leak)

Kotelnik was a world class operator (ie top6 at 140). Khan has a shot of beating Hatton, he is the better rangier faster boxer but will have to negate the strength, power and pressure of Hatton.

he seems to have a world class brain now, to go with what we already knew was world class speed.

he still did look vulnerable. i noticed when he took shots on the arms - when blocking head and body shots - he was sort of knocked sideways. there was a sort of shudder, but he got on his bike smartly. i suppose it must have been an experience getting used to taking light welterweight punches.

Another thing Amir does well is when he does get hit he can come firing back a quick fire combination backing his opponent up and throwing off their momentum. He certainly has got his game together and the fact we think he has a shot against Hatton, Witter, Bradley, says how far he's come.

Smit wrote:

Des1 wrote:Lets see if he is world class now by having a rematch with the guy who ko'd him

Not likely. Prescott lost on Friday night so no way that fight is going to happen.

Stranger things have happened, although Prescott got beat on Friday it was a split decision and he still beat Khan so could be eligable for a rematch, theres been more case than one when a fighter boxes for a title after a defeat.

khan still hasnt proved anything
because he beat a no puncher
clearly never won every round
was bruised everywhere on sky sports 2day
never got kotelnik in trouble
was always punching kotelniks guard
was saying that kotelnik was a poor champion so khans a poor ''champion'' by ''beating him''

so whats he proved????

answer= hes a fake champion

he'll give it up when he has to fight a good puncher

KO-KING wrote:khan still hasnt proved anything
because he beat a no puncher
clearly never won every round
was bruised everywhere on sky sports 2day
never got kotelnik in trouble
was always punching kotelniks guard
was saying that kotelnik was a poor champion so khans a poor ''champion'' by ''beating him''

so whats he proved????

answer= hes a fake champion

he'll give it up when he has to fight a good puncher

POINT THERE. ALL RIGHTY THEN.

Des1 wrote:

Smit wrote:

Des1 wrote:Lets see if he is world class now by having a rematch with the guy who ko'd him

Not likely. Prescott lost on Friday night so no way that fight is going to happen.

Stranger things have happened, although Prescott got beat on Friday it was a split decision and he still beat Khan so could be eligable for a rematch, theres been more case than one when a fighter boxes for a title after a defeat.

No way the Prescott fight should have been scored that way. That judge who scored for him wasn't watching the fight.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Some World Class Aspects of His Game

Speed (few faster), Workrate/Pace, Movement, Jab, Heart, Height/Reach (big advantages), a style thats now working for him

Some Substandard Aspects of his Game

Power (makes Mayweather look like Arguello), Chin (better now tucked though), Defense (much improved but will still leak)

Kotelnik was a world class operator (ie top6 at 140). Khan has a shot of beating Hatton, he is the better rangier faster boxer but will have to negate the strength, power and pressure of Hatton.

I agree with most of that, except for your claim that he has world class heart. What on earth is that based on? He looked pretty worried whenever Kotelnik landed anything solid.

hitman09 wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Some World Class Aspects of His Game

Speed (few faster), Workrate/Pace, Movement, Jab, Heart, Height/Reach (big advantages), a style thats now working for him

Some Substandard Aspects of his Game

Power (makes Mayweather look like Arguello), Chin (better now tucked though), Defense (much improved but will still leak)

Kotelnik was a world class operator (ie top6 at 140). Khan has a shot of beating Hatton, he is the better rangier faster boxer but will have to negate the strength, power and pressure of Hatton.

I agree with most of that, except for your claim that he has world class heart. What on earth is that based on? He looked pretty worried whenever Kotelnik landed anything solid.

I think he showed heart against Limond, against Gomez and in coming back to take Fagan, barerra and then Kotelnik after a devestating murderous beating he took from Prescot. Even in Prescot fight he was clearly in cucko land after first knock down but he got up to continue whilst still in cucko land (admittedly ref should never have allowed him to carry on). I do not think his heart can be questioned yet or at least until he does something Ortizesque. Additionally and to your point looking worried doesn't make you a coward or prove that you have no heart.

Beating up Fagan and a blind Barrera, neither of whom could really fight back, and being on your bike for 12 rounds vs Kotelnik doesn't exactly make you Arturo Gatti now does it? I'm not saying he's got no heart or anything like that, I'm just saying that to call his heart world class is pretty baseless and a tad ridiculous IMO.

kingfinn wrote:

Well, jake La Motta was asked how well Oscar De La Hoya would have been in his era of "one" world champion in each division and La Motta stated that he would have been a top eight fighter at most. Now that is LaMotta's opinion, but he was making the simple statement, that a lot of today's "world champions" would'nt have entered the top ten in his day, because there was only one world champion to each division and so the competition to fight the champion would have made the more average fighter's fall before the big prize was in sight. If you don't understand that simple argument, then you really don't have the acumen to pontifcate on my post and say it's a "pretty stupid statement". It's actually a very sensible statement to make and a viewpoint that is widely shared by many people

Thats not an argument? are you saying the top 8 fighters in la mottas era werent considered worlds class. If you have a world title it DOES automatically make you world class hence the WORLD bit in WORLD title.

No it doesn't,think of how many WBU and WBF titles have been held by british fighters,very few of them were 'world class',and the WBA have the cheek to have 2 champs in each division,complete nonsense.To be world class you have to be able to do more than hit and run all night,you have to be able to mix it when required,back up your opponent,take big punches and give it back,Khan only showed one of those skills the other night.

Khan clearly is world class. Just as clearly, he is still a young developing fighter with huge question marks hanging over him. But it takes some talent for him to still be developing and be WBA champion.

But it is ridiculous to try and claim that Maidana is in any way as much of a champion as Khan. Maidana lost to Kotelnik, who barely got a round against Khan, and was hand-picked by Golden Boy for Ortiz. Just because that went wrong, it's not right to put him the the bracket of Dunne, who while he produced a spectacular effort wo win his title, is clearly the second of the WBA champions at his weight.

He is certainly world class - he beat a "world champion" with ease. Look at the LWW top 10 (before Sat):

1. Manny Pacquiao (Philippines) 49-3-2
2. Ricky Hatton (England) 45-2
3. Timothy Bradley (USA) 24-0 (WBC & WBO)
4. Paulie Malignaggi (USA) 25-2
5. Junior Witter (England) 37-2-2
6. Kendall Holt (USA) 25-3 -
7. Andreas Kotelnik (Germany) 31-2-1 (WBA)
8. Juan Urango (Colombia) 21-1-1
9. Ricardo Torres (Colombia) 33-2
10. Marcos Maidana (Argentina

I honestly would give him a real shot against anyone apart from Pacman. Bradley, Holt, Torres and Urango would all pose him big problems - but Khan would give them something to think about as well.

doctorboxing wrote:He is certainly world class - he beat a "world champion" with ease. Look at the LWW top 10 (before Sat):

1. Manny Pacquiao (Philippines) 49-3-2
2. Ricky Hatton (England) 45-2
3. Timothy Bradley (USA) 24-0 (WBC & WBO)
4. Paulie Malignaggi (USA) 25-2
5. Junior Witter (England) 37-2-2
6. Kendall Holt (USA) 25-3 -
7. Andreas Kotelnik (Germany) 31-2-1 (WBA)
8. Juan Urango (Colombia) 21-1-1
9. Ricardo Torres (Colombia) 33-2
10. Marcos Maidana (Argentina

I honestly would give him a real shot against anyone apart from Pacman. Bradley, Holt, Torres and Urango would all pose him big problems - but Khan would give them something to think about as well.

I would not favor him vs any of those except Malignaggi. I'm not saying he couldn't beat them, but I'd expect every single one of those besides Malignaggi to knock him out.

kingfinn wrote:That was something special - the bob and weave in the last seconds of the 8th round was sensational.

Khan - KKKKKHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!

Sensational? It only showed how crap he has been fighting before. You lot are easily pleased if you think a boxer bobing and weaving to avoid punches is sensational, that's boxing 101! This shite is laughable.

1. Manny Pacquiao Pac KO2
2. Ricky Hatton (England) 45-2 KhanKO5
3. Timothy Bradley (USA) 24-0 (WBC & WBO) Khan UD
4. Paulie Malignaggi (USA) 25-2 Khan KO8
5. Junior Witter (England) 37-2-2 Witter KO6
6. Kendall Holt (USA) 25-3 - Khan UD
7. Andreas Kotelnik (Germany) 31-2-1 (WBA) Khan UD
8. Juan Urango (Colombia) 21-1-1 Khan UD
9. Ricardo Torres (Colombia) 33-2 Torres KO9
10. Marcos Maidana (Argentina Maidana KO3

lirva wrote:1. Manny Pacquiao Pac KO2
2. Ricky Hatton (England) 45-2 KhanKO5
3. Timothy Bradley (USA) 24-0 (WBC & WBO) Khan UD
4. Paulie Malignaggi (USA) 25-2 Khan KO8
5. Junior Witter (England) 37-2-2 Witter KO6
6. Kendall Holt (USA) 25-3 - Khan UD
7. Andreas Kotelnik (Germany) 31-2-1 (WBA) Khan UD
8. Juan Urango (Colombia) 21-1-1 Khan UD
9. Ricardo Torres (Colombia) 33-2 Torres KO9
10. Marcos Maidana (Argentina Maidana KO3

good call except i think he would beat witter

His win for all intenst and purposes wasnt that much better than Gavin Rees for the same bgus title so before we have him beateing the elite at 140lbs let him face a few that would pose him more problems

The consesnus of this fight was that Khan would outwork the much slower Kotelnik but eventually tire and get caught. It ws belived that his chin was so bad that Kotelnik would be made to look like Pacman. The latter did not happen so really and truly he faced the perfect style on saturday. A light puncher who is slow and workshy

Let him face and overcome more stylistic problems before we start hailing a new messiah. And btw he doesnt beat Bradley for my money

Until Khan fights somebody of real class, with speed and spite in his punches - i'm not 100% sold.

I felt he was alway going to beat the slow, straight-forward Kotelnik. Khan has plenty of talent but i'd love to see him go against a 'real' top-end fighter.

Prescott caught him cold however, under Roach I think Khan would not be so daft as he was in that fight. Though the fact remains (in my eyes) that if he's caught by a decent shot, he'll go down and always struggle to get up.

We'll see though, still pleased to have a Brit join Froch with a portion of the World Title.

hitman09 wrote:

doctorboxing wrote:He is certainly world class - he beat a "world champion" with ease. Look at the LWW top 10 (before Sat):

1. Manny Pacquiao (Philippines) 49-3-2
2. Ricky Hatton (England) 45-2
3. Timothy Bradley (USA) 24-0 (WBC & WBO)
4. Paulie Malignaggi (USA) 25-2
5. Junior Witter (England) 37-2-2
6. Kendall Holt (USA) 25-3 -
7. Andreas Kotelnik (Germany) 31-2-1 (WBA)
8. Juan Urango (Colombia) 21-1-1
9. Ricardo Torres (Colombia) 33-2
10. Marcos Maidana (Argentina

I honestly would give him a real shot against anyone apart from Pacman. Bradley, Holt, Torres and Urango would all pose him big problems - but Khan would give them something to think about as well.

I would not favor him vs any of those except Malignaggi. I'm not saying he couldn't beat them, but I'd expect every single one of those besides Malignaggi to knock him out.

Well it does not really matter what you think considering you thought Kotelnik was going to KO "this fraud".

Not that it mattered much before anyway

MecnunK wrote:

hitman09 wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Some World Class Aspects of His Game

Speed (few faster), Workrate/Pace, Movement, Jab, Heart, Height/Reach (big advantages), a style thats now working for him

Some Substandard Aspects of his Game

Power (makes Mayweather look like Arguello), Chin (better now tucked though), Defense (much improved but will still leak)

Kotelnik was a world class operator (ie top6 at 140). Khan has a shot of beating Hatton, he is the better rangier faster boxer but will have to negate the strength, power and pressure of Hatton.

I agree with most of that, except for your claim that he has world class heart. What on earth is that based on? He looked pretty worried whenever Kotelnik landed anything solid.

I think he showed heart against Limond, against Gomez and in coming back to take Fagan, barerra and then Kotelnik after a devestating murderous beating he took from Prescot. Even in Prescot fight he was clearly in cucko land after first knock down but he got up to continue whilst still in cucko land (admittedly ref should never have allowed him to carry on). I do not think his heart can be questioned yet or at least until he does something Ortizesque. Additionally and to your point looking worried doesn't make you a coward or prove that you have no heart.

Thats what I was getting at

hitman09 wrote:

doctorboxing wrote:He is certainly world class - he beat a "world champion" with ease. Look at the LWW top 10 (before Sat):

1. Manny Pacquiao (Philippines) 49-3-2
2. Ricky Hatton (England) 45-2
3. Timothy Bradley (USA) 24-0 (WBC & WBO)
4. Paulie Malignaggi (USA) 25-2
5. Junior Witter (England) 37-2-2
6. Kendall Holt (USA) 25-3 -
7. Andreas Kotelnik (Germany) 31-2-1 (WBA)
8. Juan Urango (Colombia) 21-1-1
9. Ricardo Torres (Colombia) 33-2
10. Marcos Maidana (Argentina

I honestly would give him a real shot against anyone apart from Pacman. Bradley, Holt, Torres and Urango would all pose him big problems - but Khan would give them something to think about as well.

I would not favor him vs any of those except Malignaggi. I'm not saying he couldn't beat them, but I'd expect every single one of those besides Malignaggi to knock him out.

Well he already beat 1 of them that wasnt Mallignaggi D Maidana, Torres and Urango can be easy to outbox and Holt/Witter are lazy and Bradley is a short ass and Hatton on the slide. So I'd say he has decent chances against those. Pacman kills him

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

hitman09 wrote:

doctorboxing wrote:He is certainly world class - he beat a "world champion" with ease. Look at the LWW top 10 (before Sat):

1. Manny Pacquiao (Philippines) 49-3-2
2. Ricky Hatton (England) 45-2
3. Timothy Bradley (USA) 24-0 (WBC & WBO)
4. Paulie Malignaggi (USA) 25-2
5. Junior Witter (England) 37-2-2
6. Kendall Holt (USA) 25-3 -
7. Andreas Kotelnik (Germany) 31-2-1 (WBA)
8. Juan Urango (Colombia) 21-1-1
9. Ricardo Torres (Colombia) 33-2
10. Marcos Maidana (Argentina

I honestly would give him a real shot against anyone apart from Pacman. Bradley, Holt, Torres and Urango would all pose him big problems - but Khan would give them something to think about as well.

I would not favor him vs any of those except Malignaggi. I'm not saying he couldn't beat them, but I'd expect every single one of those besides Malignaggi to knock him out.

Well he already beat 1 of them that wasnt Mallignaggi D Maidana, Torres and Urango can be easy to outbox and Holt/Witter are lazy and Bradley is a short ass and Hatton on the slide. So I'd say he has decent chances against those. Pacman kills him

Exactly - if you can say he can beat 2 of the top ten then he obviously is world class especially when he's ranked 6th now.

Personally i think Hatton is being underated due to the manor of the pacman loss, and that was down to tactics. the mayweather fight would have been alot closer if the ref hadnt been so bias (no im not saying he would have won!!!). I think hattons rightfully ranked 2nd.

We've got to remember khan is by no means the finished article, and his improvemont between fights is immence.

khan isnt the finished article, correct. i like that list above but i also dont think he beats bradley. not yet anyway. one thing is beyond doubt, his career is going to be worth watching.

I think Khan will be champ still, when everyone has long forgotten the names Bradley, Holt & Malignaggi. If he stays with FW, I think FW will keep Khan champ a long time. If all goes well he'll develop, and will land one or two genuine superfights (or lucrative super-events).

Definitely, there will be some worries if he has to take on a puncher, such as Maidana - which due to WBA rankings could be possible - , as well as Ricardo Torres and Juan Urango. Could be one or two moments when Khan's backers are messing their pants in suspense, for sure.

He certainly can grow into his belt, and this needs to be taken into account. Winning the belt has established him as a economic force. So what if he can or can't beat Tim Bradley in the nexy 5 months? If he can't, he won't be put in with Tim Bradley and Bradley continues to get moderate money and moderate exposure on a prospects program called Shoebox. Meanwile Khan wil likely be on much bigger money on a more prestigious stage, with more ppl watching; and he'll be able to land the fights that matter - when he is ready.

deverstater wrote:he can only beat whats in front him, he got the belt so lets c what he can do. give him a chance to prove us wrong, but personally u cant go knowhere with a glass jaw like that. or can he? :??

im not convinced he's even got a glass jaw. manny sparked hatton like prescott sparked khan, we all know hatton hasnt got a glass jaw.

Im not saying its iron but i think his jaw is compariable to hayes.