BoxRec

Chisora wants this. It don't seem to be about money with him.

Good job, cos he won't be seeing much of it - Even if he wins and goes into the mandated fight with Vitali holding 2 belts, he will get next to nothing.

orbtastic wrote:Please point me in the direction of rankings (in print or internet) other than IBF where Tua was rated above number 5?

I'm sick to death of all this revisionist nonsense spouted on here.

It's usually revisionist the other way i.e. to find the negatives.

Anyway, which sanctioning body ranked him where is pretty irrelevant, as most sets of alphabet rankings are. I asked you to name four heavyweights more deserving of a title shot in late 2000, and you didn't couldn't.

I understand and accept that Holyfield and Tyson may have been considered better by many fans (although the latter was at that time coing off a very poor performance and fortunate win against a Ruiz who was at the time very lowly considered), and so I retract my "universally accepted" line, but I'll revise it to universally accepted highest-ranked available challenger, the evidence for which Macho has already laid out.

Tua was also someone who was being talked about widely in American circles, as someone lewis was avoiding - because he was a devastating puncher.

I can remember arguing with wildly excited yanks on here who were guffawing about what he was going to do to Lewis. They were rather less vocal after Lewis picked Tua's wings off within a couple of rounds before toying with him for the next 10 rounds.

For what it's worth, I think Vitali would have beaten everyone on that list earlier, except for Holyfield and Tyson, the 1990 version of Tyson at least. Holyfield would have found a way to prevail.

People say Riddick was overrated - I don't think he was, just that his peak was very very brief. He had all the tools, except self-discipline. At his best Bowe had the form to be a great heavyweight champ, but he just couldn't look after himself correctly between fights, and eat himself out of his career, by being forced to spend his training camps weight draining, rather than training effectively.

oliverfennell wrote:

orbtastic wrote:Please point me in the direction of rankings (in print or internet) other than IBF where Tua was rated above number 5?

I'm sick to death of all this revisionist nonsense spouted on here.

It's usually revisionist the other way i.e. to find the negatives.

Anyway, which sanctioning body ranked him where is pretty irrelevant, as most sets of alphabet rankings are. I asked you to name four heavyweights more deserving of a title shot in late 2000, and you didn't couldn't.

I understand and accept that Holyfield and Tyson may have been considered better by many fans (although the latter was at that time coing off a very poor performance and fortunate win against a Ruiz who was at the time very lowly considered), and so I retract my "universally accepted" line, but I'll revise it to universally accepted highest-ranked available challenger, the evidence for which Macho has already laid out.

That's a bit of a move of goalposts but I'll accept it.

Who I think was more deserving at the time is irrelevant, I'm saying that in 2000 he wasn't the number one with anyone but the IBF and there were other, more highly regarded fighters (some of who flunked) around.

It's a bit fact vs opinion. Could easily find magazines from US/UK around the time and show who else they rated/regarded above him.

Wladimir has had too many cakewalks recently. He may have forgotten what it's like to be in a fight - and Chisora has the speed, guile and determination to remind him. I like Delboy's right hook round the side of the guard. That could be Klitschko's undoing. Blind patriotism perhaps, but I will stick a few quid on Chisora.

nobby_nobbins wrote:Wladimir has had too many cakewalks recently. He may have forgotten what it's like to be in a fight - and Chisora has the speed, guile and determination to remind him. I like Delboy's right hook round the side of the guard. That could be Klitschko's undoing. Blind patriotism perhaps, but I will stick a few quid on Chisora.

Depends on what odds they are offering.

The trouble is Nobby, everyone's gameplan goes out the window once they take a few of those jabs without landing anything meaningful.

What Wlad does isn't much fun to watch, but the bugger is very hard to get close to, he just takes that half step back and slings out a jab, and a hurtful one at that.

Delboy is quicker than most guys he's faced, this is true, but I won't be sticking money on him, unless they are offering very good odds indeed. The step up in class is as big as I've seen in a heavyweight title fight since I've been watching boxing.

Nightmare Roy wrote:

orbtastic wrote:Surprise surprise, K2 brothers force him to take the shitty end of the purse and tie him up in contractual stuff.

Who the hell dictates that he "rematch" his brother?

I think this nonsense is probably the real reason why Haye hasn't fought them, good luck to Del Boy, some people are saying he's too small, well i saw him the other day and he looks pretty damn big to me, i think he just has to go for it full pelt early.

I thought the whole point of Haye wanting to become undisputed was that he would have had to fight both... if Chisora beats Wlad and fights Vitali as a belt-holder he will make more money from that than almost any other entire set of fights he could make in boxing today... if he did beat Wlad, unless it was by something stupid like kissing him to death at the weigh-in, we'd think he had a great opportunity ahead of him, signed sealed delivered.

J wrote:

crusader wrote:

J wrote:none of the belts mean eff all anymore.

by the way in case you didnt know those nice klts bros have insisted should del boy win he has to fight his elder brother...

http://www.sportinglife.com/boxing/news ... 12902.html


its this bullshit that is fookin up heavyweight boxing.

Actually, heavyweight boxing is fooked up because most of the top heavyweights are fat slobs and miles below the Klitschkos in terms of ability. Most of the fights that have fell through in the HW division are not because someone has to fight Vitali if they win, it is because there are financial details the camps can't agree on. These disagreements are common in every division, and Haye has had his part in them as well.

Even with these contracts that you think are fookin up HW boxing, the Klitschkos still manage to regularly fight top 15 opponents, and in the case of Wlad top five opponents. So you see, they aren't hurting HW boxing as much as you think. It wasn't even the contract that made Povetkin pull out, it was his trainers worries about his chance of winning.

YEAH COURSE ITS ALL DAVID HAYES FAULT THE FIGHTS DIDNT COME OFF AS WELL I SUPPOSE ISNT IT.

back to the current scene with you.

get real .

I didn't say that at all. Maybe next time you can address what I have actually posted. TYPING LIKE THIS DOESN'T STRENGTHEN YOUR POINTS and there is no need to yell through the computer J.

I will continue posting in the current scene, just like you do

MachoMan09 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:People say Riddick was overrated - I don't think he was, just that his peak was very very brief. He had all the tools, except self-discipline. At his best Bowe had the form to be a great heavyweight champ, but he just couldn't look after himself correctly between fights, and eat himself out of his career, by being forced to spend his training camps weight draining, rather than training effectively.

All true. Bowe had the potential to be up there with the very best of all time. Prime Lewis vs. Prime Bowe would've been awesome.

Always thought that the elite 4 heavies of the 90s were as good a set of fighters as any from any other era. Lewis, Tyson, Bowe and Holyfield match up with the famous 4 from the 70s. Only problem is, the 90s mob didn't get it on with each other enough. Lewis-Bowe was an epic trilogy waiting to happen for instance.

yiddo14 wrote:

MachoMan09 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:People say Riddick was overrated - I don't think he was, just that his peak was very very brief. He had all the tools, except self-discipline. At his best Bowe had the form to be a great heavyweight champ, but he just couldn't look after himself correctly between fights, and eat himself out of his career, by being forced to spend his training camps weight draining, rather than training effectively.

All true. Bowe had the potential to be up there with the very best of all time. Prime Lewis vs. Prime Bowe would've been awesome.

Always thought that the elite 4 heavies of the 90s were as good a set of fighters as any from any other era. Lewis, Tyson, Bowe and Holyfield match up with the famous 4 from the 70s. Only problem is, the 90s mob didn't get it on with each other enough. Lewis-Bowe was an epic trilogy waiting to happen for instance.

Completely agree. Very strong time for the division was the 90's with those 4 main players and plenty of depth in the ranks. Certainly puts the current crop to shape.

King Geedorah wrote:There were calls for Lewis-Tua at the time. Tua held an Inter-wotsit belt and a regional US belt and many thought that he would show people what would happen if Lewis faced Tyson. There was a lot of belief in Tua going into the fight. Indeed, Lederman gave Tua the early stanzas simply on the basis that he was rumbling forward, Lewis was doing this thing known in many circles as 'boxing' and it turned Howard right off. Not me, I love that fight and it was seen as a genuine test at the time. Claims to the contrary are pure revisionism.

As for Bowe, he was a special talent. It is hard to make judgements simply based on potential but there is nothing the two Klits can do that a prime Riddick couldn't do, plus he could do it better, faster and with more style. I'd have put my house on the Bowe from Holy I, even the rematch, doing the Lambada on them.

Bowe was also doing very well indeed in the second Holyfield fight, until that eedjit with the fan came in. I always felt for Bowe, he was getting on top in the fight and really rattling Holyfield with some big shots when it happened. When they resumed, Bowe looked very cold, I seem to remember that they didn't have anything adequate to cover him up, and he took a while to get warmed up allowing Holyfield to nick a few rounds.

In fairness, that fight should probably have been refought entirely a few weeks later, but with no previous incidents to refer to, what could the referee do? There was no precedent. A 20 minute lull in a fight in an outdoor ring in the cold is far from ideal.

For what it's worth, I think that Holyfield would have done Wlad and probably Vitali too, he should have gotten the rematch with Lewis, and Lewis was better at pretty much everything than either Klit.

Bowe ranks low as a heavyweight champ due to his brief reign, but at his best he was one of the very best, Eddie Futch believed Bowe to be the most naturally talented heavy he ever worked with, and said it was a crying shame that he couldn't get Riddick to listen and see sense.

FW has confirmed that this fight will be available via a big screen at the Echo arena. Good news!!!!!!

I was reading that tua was offered the fight first but turned it down because his purse was only US$250,000 and he owes atleast 6 times that to the I.R.D (the kiwi taxman) so there was no chance he was fighting for that, they've suspended his last 3 fighting purses aswell. So I wonder how much Chisora purse is? You wouldn't think it would be as much as the Tua offer.

I reckon Delboy getting a 100k!

leforge wrote:I reckon Delboy getting a 100k!

Alright Dave, That's pretty sh1tty for world heavyweight title challenge on away soil ain't it.

yid14 wrote:

leforge wrote:I reckon Delboy getting a 100k!

Alright Dave, That's pretty sh1tty for world heavyweight title challenge on away soil ain't it.

He may get it a bit more but I can't see them paying it. Tua fighting Barrett again in new Zealand will you go?

leforge wrote:

yid14 wrote:

leforge wrote:I reckon Delboy getting a 100k!

Alright Dave, That's pretty sh1tty for world heavyweight title challenge on away soil ain't it.

He may get it a bit more but I can't see them paying it. Tua fighting Barrett again in new Zealand will you go?

I think he's fighting in the U.S first next month and then in N.Z in January, yeah I would go somebodies got to help him pay off his tax-bill.

yid14 wrote:

leforge wrote:

yid14 wrote: Alright Dave, That's pretty sh1tty for world heavyweight title challenge on away soil ain't it.

He may get it a bit more but I can't see them paying it. Tua fighting Barrett again in new Zealand will you go?

I think he's fighting in the U.S first next month and then in N.Z in January, yeah I would go somebodies got to help him pay off his tax-bill.

very charitable of u!

MachoMan09 wrote:Dereck might be on the same rate as that which Tua was offered. I guarantee FW will be a darn sight better negotiator than whoever Tua had on the phone for him. K2 probably had so much set aside for an opponent and will just be happy to have the slot booked and the fight made. 250K/USD is about 156K/GBP (gross). That's not a bad number for eight weeks training and a night's work, even after deductions. Unless you are a PPV superstar, you ain't going to get the million dollar pay days.

I think Cedric Kushner can hold his own and I really think David Tua is a bigger draw than someone who's had two wins over Sam Sexton and a win over a totally gone Danny Williams.