BoxRec

lillywhite14 wrote:Brook v Cleverly? Looking at both their records, they have beat guys of a similar standard.

Clev was only ever a paper titlist. Fingers crossed Brook takes the kind of step up that Clev did with Kovalev though.

Pound for pound if they were the same size? I think Brook would knock him out

Would you say Brook is a bigger puncher, pound for pound, than Boomer? Brook seems to land a lot of flush punches without any real highlight reel knockouts. Even when he is fighting well over the Welter limit.

Two things I noticed at the end of the fight - The first is that Calzaghe seemed to be right next to FW and his son, have they kissed and made up or was it just a proximity thing? The second is that even FW seemed surprised when he ate that first combination that knocked him down, the look on his face was one of shock.

Did they all just overstate/think Clev's genuine worth a world level or did they seriously underestimate Kovalev?

He's hardly going to be the next Mike Tyson but it'll be interesting to see where his career goes.

The fight itself (and the lead-up to it) reminded me of Eamon Loughran against Jose Luis Lopez, just a huge gulf in class immediately apparent and all the previous world title defences didn't help one bit.

mickey1975 wrote:

lillywhite14 wrote:Brook v Cleverly? Looking at both their records, they have beat guys of a similar standard.

Clev was only ever a paper titlist. Fingers crossed Brook takes the kind of step up that Clev did with Kovalev though.

Pound for pound if they were the same size? I think Brook would knock him out

Would you say Brook is a bigger puncher, pound for pound, than Boomer? Brook seems to land a lot of flush punches without any real highlight reel knockouts. Even when he is fighting well over the Welter limit.

like a bad penny he returns.....let's forget him knocking someone out with a jab in a final eliminator.....you're right brook can't punch like ferocious frankie...... ..... and who is boomer.....i bet they fight to get out of your cab first.....

los2 wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:

lillywhite14 wrote:Brook v Cleverly? Looking at both their records, they have beat guys of a similar standard.

Clev was only ever a paper titlist. Fingers crossed Brook takes the kind of step up that Clev did with Kovalev though.

Pound for pound if they were the same size? I think Brook would knock him out

Would you say Brook is a bigger puncher, pound for pound, than Boomer? Brook seems to land a lot of flush punches without any real highlight reel knockouts. Even when he is fighting well over the Welter limit.

like a bad penny he returns.....let's forget him knocking someone out with a jab in a final eliminator.....you're right brook can't punch like ferocious frankie...... ..... and who is boomer.....i bet they fight to get out of your cab first.....

You mean Saldivia, a man who was stopped inside 2 minutes by Said Ouali, falling over when hit with a stiff jab and appearing to be pretty steady on his feet seconds after wobbling around. And I don't remember Frankie Gavin being mentioned at any stage.

los2 wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:

lillywhite14 wrote:Brook v Cleverly? Looking at both their records, they have beat guys of a similar standard.

Clev was only ever a paper titlist. Fingers crossed Brook takes the kind of step up that Clev did with Kovalev though.

Pound for pound if they were the same size? I think Brook would knock him out

Would you say Brook is a bigger puncher, pound for pound, than Boomer? Brook seems to land a lot of flush punches without any real highlight reel knockouts. Even when he is fighting well over the Welter limit.

like a bad penny he returns.....let's forget him knocking someone out with a jab in a final eliminator.....you're right brook can't punch like ferocious frankie...... ..... and who is boomer.....i bet they fight to get out of your cab first.....

Nobody has mentioned Frankie! You are clearly a troll.. I am a real life boxing fan and get out and actually go to shows and gyms etc... Parsons Cross, Hagler2002, Donanda, Shirow and Forcefraser can back me up on that plus my personal friends on here, active boxer Tijuana1 and bbbc manager/trainer Glennbanks. I will be at shows in Barnsley, Leeds and Manchester if you want to say hello. If your old enough to be allowed out on your own.

since gavin beat vassell all youve done is slag brook off... ......this thread is about cleverly......get a grip....

los2 wrote:since gavin beat vassell all youve done is slag brook off... ......this thread is about cleverly......get a grip....

You were the one who brought Gavin into this and it wasn't Mickey that brought Brook up, so I don't really get your point.

My OP was a sarcastic dig at Clev Warren and Vince.
Using the facts as I see them I have admiration for Clev achievements.
The crying squad sieze the chance to say its the same as them slagging Brook. It isnt as Brook has been unlucky and ill managed.
Cleverly a maths scholar made a catastrophic error of judgement and lost his title and very nearly consciousness.
His team allowed it and now all stand back and say well its his fault.
No I in team it was written because I believed his and his teams folly was not being acknowledged on the forum.
I should have worded it better or posted it after a bigger period of time had passed.
But I have no real ill feeling for Nathan I have never enjoyed watching him though and do feel that all concerned were at fault.
If Brook stumbles or falls look out for the posters lambasting me for this.
They most probably have much the same saved as drafts at the ready.
If your a Nathan Cleverly fan and I sympathize and really didn't mean to be as harsh on him he is a brave man too brave it would seem.

TJ77 wrote:My OP was a sarcastic dig at Clev Warren and Vince.
Using the facts as I see them I have admiration for Clev achievements.
The crying squad sieze the chance to say its the same as them slagging Brook. It isnt as Brook has been unlucky and ill managed.
Cleverly a maths scholar made a catastrophic error of judgement and lost his title and very nearly consciousness.
His team allowed it and now all stand back and say well its his fault.
No I in team it was written because I believed his and his teams folly was not being acknowledged on the forum.
I should have worded it better or posted it after a bigger period of time had passed.
But I have no real ill feeling for Nathan I have never enjoyed watching him though and do feel that all concerned were at fault.
If Brook stumbles or falls look out for the posters lambasting me for this.
They most probably have much the same saved as drafts at the ready.
If your a Nathan Cleverly fan and I sympathize and really didn't mean to be as harsh on him he is a brave man too brave it would seem.

There may be no I in team, but boxing isn't a team sport, Cleverly wanted Kovalev and he got him and was beaten by the better man on the night, there's no shame in that, if he won he'd taken out the big punching favourite live on HBO and it would have lined up some big fights. It was high risk, high reward and it didn't come off.

expe wrote:

TJ77 wrote:My OP was a sarcastic dig at Clev Warren and Vince.
Using the facts as I see them I have admiration for Clev achievements.
The crying squad sieze the chance to say its the same as them slagging Brook. It isnt as Brook has been unlucky and ill managed.
Cleverly a maths scholar made a catastrophic error of judgement and lost his title and very nearly consciousness.
His team allowed it and now all stand back and say well its his fault.
No I in team it was written because I believed his and his teams folly was not being acknowledged on the forum.
I should have worded it better or posted it after a bigger period of time had passed.
But I have no real ill feeling for Nathan I have never enjoyed watching him though and do feel that all concerned were at fault.
If Brook stumbles or falls look out for the posters lambasting me for this.
They most probably have much the same saved as drafts at the ready.
If your a Nathan Cleverly fan and I sympathize and really didn't mean to be as harsh on him he is a brave man too brave it would seem.

There may be no I in team, but boxing isn't a team sport, Cleverly wanted Kovalev and he got him and was beaten by the better man on the night, there's no shame in that, if he won he'd taken out the big punching favourite live on HBO and it would have lined up some big fights. It was high risk, high reward and it didn't come off.

Exactly. A big part of it was if he beat Kovalev there would of been a good chance of him getting a deal with HBO and making big money which was the appeal and also would make the likes of Hopkins and co be interested in fighting him.

It's not like he got stitched up, he was the defending champ! He probably got a lot more in his pay packet because HBO were taking it and this was reflected in the quality of the opponent. People are going on like it was a Walker-Karmazin situation. It wasn't(at least not on paper!).

mickey1975 wrote:It's not like he got stitched up, he was the defending champ! He probably got a lot more in his pay packet because HBO were taking it and this was reflected in the quality of the opponent. People are going on like it was a Walker-Karmazin situation. It wasn't(at least not on paper!).

He has made a fraction of what he could have.
I believe he was ill advised and should have been saved from himself.
Our opinions differ greatly it would be a wank forum if they didn't.
Gentlemen apologise when wrong im not wrong so you lot can get fucked DD

TJ77 wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:It's not like he got stitched up, he was the defending champ! He probably got a lot more in his pay packet because HBO were taking it and this was reflected in the quality of the opponent. People are going on like it was a Walker-Karmazin situation. It wasn't(at least not on paper!).

He has made a fraction of what he could have.
I believe he was ill advised and should have been saved from himself.
Our opinions differ greatly it would be a wank forum if they didn't.
Gentlemen apologise when wrong im not wrong so you lot can get fucked DD

But he obviously couldn't earn a lot more as he wasn't good enough. If he would have won, he would have got HBO onboard and been involved in some serious match ups. He got exposed, and I speak as a Clev fan.

mickey1975 wrote:

TJ77 wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:It's not like he got stitched up, he was the defending champ! He probably got a lot more in his pay packet because HBO were taking it and this was reflected in the quality of the opponent. People are going on like it was a Walker-Karmazin situation. It wasn't(at least not on paper!).

He has made a fraction of what he could have.
I believe he was ill advised and should have been saved from himself.
Our opinions differ greatly it would be a wank forum if they didn't.
Gentlemen apologise when wrong im not wrong so you lot can get fucked DD

But he obviously couldn't earn a lot more as he wasn't good enough. If he would have won, he would have got HBO onboard and been involved in some serious match ups. He got exposed, and I speak as a Clev fan.

For big money which was a major part of him fighting Kovalev. That and the fact that he would of had a chance to make those unification fights happen with the likes of Hopkins, etc, which he was having a lot of trouble making happening because he hasnt had a lot of exposure stateside.

mickey1975 wrote:

Parson Cross wrote:Only on here could a thread about Clev turn into a pop about Brook.
Mickey -I thought you'd learnt your lesson ?!?

I will never learn! I didn't start it this time either. Clev got beaten up by a banger, it happens, no need for him to write "an open letter" about it. It could easily happen to Kell. It happened to Herol and Ricky, two much better fighters than Kell will ever be.

mickey it will happen to brook real soon,there is only world class fighters for him now,he has banged on abour alexander for the past 11 months ish then pulls out for the 2nd or 3rd time,lets face it he isnt a real ingle fighter they all had more balls than this pretender.

He has made a fraction of what he could have.
I believe he was ill advised and should have been saved from himself.
Our opinions differ greatly it would be a wank forum if they didn't.
Gentlemen apologise when wrong im not wrong so you lot can get fucked DD[/quote]
But he obviously couldn't earn a lot more as he wasn't good enough. If he would have won, he would have got HBO onboard and been involved in some serious match ups. He got exposed, and I speak as a Clev fan.[/quote]
For big money which was a major part of him fighting Kovalev. That and the fact that he would of had a chance to make those unification fights happen with the likes of Hopkins, etc, which he was having a lot of trouble making happening because he hasnt had a lot of exposure stateside.[/quote]
Thats as maybe but the only reason HBO were there is because the have got Kovalev nice and early . Another Fw smoke screen the carrot was as out of reach as the win. Sorry but Frank served up his only WC to the fatcat Americans why you would need to see the contract bet theres some interesting T+Cs the favour allegedly even in loss.

expe wrote:

los2 wrote:since gavin beat vassell all youve done is slag brook off... ......this thread is about cleverly......get a grip....

You were the one who brought Gavin into this and it wasn't Mickey that brought Brook up, so I don't really get your point.

mickey wasnt the first to being brook up but he was the first to start abusing him.... he goes to all these shows and gyms so he must have said hello to brook and told him he abuses him on t'internet...."fighting in pub toilets...eating crap and getting pissed...never fight for the world title......gavin would beat him.....never beat anyone.....gavins got more fans....doesnt live the life....never make welterweight again....now he cant even punch"...etc....etc....and thats just from the last few days

fasteddie wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:

Parson Cross wrote:Only on here could a thread about Clev turn into a pop about Brook.
Mickey -I thought you'd learnt your lesson ?!?

I will never learn! I didn't start it this time either. Clev got beaten up by a banger, it happens, no need for him to write "an open letter" about it. It could easily happen to Kell. It happened to Herol and Ricky, two much better fighters than Kell will ever be.

mickey it will happen to brook real soon,there is only world class fighters for him now,he has banged on abour alexander for the past 11 months ish then pulls out for the 2nd or 3rd time,lets face it he isnt a real ingle fighter they all had more balls than this pretender.

3rd time?....if your going to lie why not say 5 or 6?

los2 wrote:

expe wrote:

los2 wrote:since gavin beat vassell all youve done is slag brook off... ......this thread is about cleverly......get a grip....

You were the one who brought Gavin into this and it wasn't Mickey that brought Brook up, so I don't really get your point.

mickey wasnt the first to being brook up but he was the first to start abusing him.... he goes to all these shows and gyms so he must have said hello to brook and told him he abuses him on t'internet...."fighting in pub toilets...eating crap and getting pissed...never fight for the world title......gavin would beat him.....never beat anyone.....gavins got more fans....doesnt live the life....never make welterweight again....now he cant even punch"...etc....etc....and thats just from the last few days

Well, he was fighting in pub toilets, by his own admission he doesn't live the life, he hasn't beaten anyone above domestic level and it's questionable whether he will make welterweight again.

Never met Brook but a friend of mine is quite friendly with him and got him to sign a poster for the gym my sons attend and a glove for auction at a charity boxing do I was at so I'm sure he is not a bad bloke. All this boils down to is I think Frankie would beat him. That is the sum total of it, and both haven't been saints in the past.

expe wrote: Well, he was fighting in pub toilets, by his own admission he doesn't live the life, he hasn't beaten anyone above domestic level and it's questionable whether he will make welterweight again.

Barton, Ndou, Jackiewicz - there is 3 boxers at European Level. He has definitely boxed above domestic level, just not elite.

I don't think its questionable, I think he makes it.

mickey1965 wrote:All this boils down to is I think Frankie would beat him. That is the sum total of it, and both haven't been saints in the past.

Only took 3/4 of a thread for you to say it. I would love them to fight. I really would. I'd even buy you the consolatory beer.

expe wrote:Well, he was fighting in pub toilets, by his own admission he doesn't live the life, he hasn't beaten anyone above domestic level and it's questionable whether he will make welterweight again.

Clev lost, people should deal with it and accept it. Just because someone created a thread (tongue in cheek), why does this need to escalate into 4 pages about what Brook does, should do, has done? To get back at the OP? Jeeeez.

Cleverly lost because he has not improved, for about 4-5 years, which is criminal and the blame lays with his promoter, his Dad and himself. Credit for stepping up to the plate (belatedly) but hoping to crash the World scene was a gamble and a gamble they obviously were not ready for. Since he was given his belt all I kept reading was how he was 'still learning', erm no you hold a World title, fighting the likes of Kuziemski, Karpency, Hawk, Krasniqi as a World Champion is just shocking. W@rren just played it safe, safe and then winged it, in the hope Cleverly could turn out like JC. Disgraceful.

And before someone replies with something daft, I am discussing the topic of the thread and couldn't give a s*** about whatever about Brook, Gavin and who would win that...

expe wrote: Well, he was fighting in pub toilets, by his own admission he doesn't live the life, he hasn't beaten anyone above domestic level and it's questionable whether he will make welterweight again.

it was a nightclub not a pub .....hatton was an unbeaten european champ.....he's said he will make welter.....i dont remember him saying he doesnt live the life......its not that long ago people were saying his body had been photoshopped because he was in amazing nick.....http://www.livefight.com/news.php?news_ ... ......then he got injured which never ever happens to any other sportsman....then came abuse from the haters

bengulnaci1 wrote:

expe wrote:Well, he was fighting in pub toilets, by his own admission he doesn't live the life, he hasn't beaten anyone above domestic level and it's questionable whether he will make welterweight again.

Clev lost, people should deal with it and accept it. Just because someone created a thread (tongue in cheek), why does this need to escalate into 4 pages about what Brook does, should do, has done? To get back at the OP? Jeeeez.

Cleverly lost because he has not improved, for about 4-5 years, which is criminal and the blame lays with his promoter, his Dad and himself. Credit for stepping up to the plate (belatedly) but hoping to crash the World scene was a gamble and a gamble they obviously were not ready for. Since he was given his belt all I kept reading was how he was 'still learning', erm no you hold a World title, fighting the likes of Kuziemski, Karpency, Hawk, Krasniqi as a World Champion is just shocking. W@rren just played it safe, safe and then winged it, in the hope Cleverly could turn out like JC. Disgraceful.

And before someone replies with something daft, I am discussing the topic of the thread and couldn't give a s*** about whatever about Brook, Gavin and who would win that...

It's not about getting back at the op. He cries every time there is any criticism of Brook and then creates a thread like this when Cleverly lost. If you don't see the hypocrisy there fine, but some of us do.

So (in the past) reacting badly to criticisms of Brook, now apparently results in creating a Cleverly thread, which results in some reacting badly to criticisms of Cleverly, which results in more criticisms of Brook and some bigging up of Frankie Gavin, thrown in there, too......four pages of it.

Confusing & ironic but whatever