BoxRec

He was always stronger than mike physically and mentally.

elmersalsa wrote:I respect the Real Deal. But on his best night, he doesn't beat Iron Mike, circa 1985-88.

it is difficult to assess tyson in his early going
because the bully is always different in everything
before he is really challenged. i think the version
that hoyfield faced had definitely deteriorated into
a very one dimensional puncher with limited arsenal
and no lateral head and body movement.

but still, his power was in tact and evander could
handle it, which makes me believe that he would
have been able to absorb young mike's force too.
could a young tyson handle the frustration better?
i do not know. i tend to think it would be more
competitive but evander would still make it prime
for prime. when they fought one could see that they
had actually very similar styles. relying on power,
not jabbing much, rather turn things into a brawl
than a boxing match. with one difference: iron will
on evander's part.

early mike gets a lot of credit for the fear he spread.
take that away and he is a strong heavy weight, yet
not a monster.

elmersalsa wrote:

man wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:Iron Mike before 1988 had exceptional defense.

no. he had an extremely fast offense
with a lot of upper body movement.
that might look like good defense, but
in my view it isn't.

He had exceptional defense. Maybe we see different Iron Mikes

fine with me. the whole section here is
mostly guessing anyways.

man wrote:

Judah Ben Fur wrote:Holyfield still had to headbutt like a billy goat

i always felt mike tyson exaggerated this
big time and some people fell for it.

Spot on.

Tyson definitely exaggarated it as a way to force a DQ & get out of a beating.

The thing with Tyson, when it comes to boxing, he hugely knowledgable & intelligent & he knows fighters; he knew he couldn't beat Holyfield, that's why he tried to get out of the first fight & that's why he erupted so violently during the rematch.

Tyson was just as dirty as Holyfield, if not more so.

- Witherspoon out with his best ever interview that guts poor Lar with the faintest of praise.

I get that modern meows love to prop up their heroes well past their expiration dates, but let's be clear that the Ks would clear out Ali/Lar competition much easier save for a prime Tyson. Foreman would be problematic but for him being jerked around in Africa and set up by Sadler with no rematch in normal conditions.

That's fine since with Big Dummy HOF induction, that opens up for Byrd, Ruiz, Haye, Briggs, Fury, Povetkin, and such to get in.

man wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:I respect the Real Deal. But on his best night, he doesn't beat Iron Mike, circa 1985-88.

it is difficult to assess tyson in his early going
because the bully is always different in everything
before he is really challenged. i think the version
that hoyfield faced had definitely deteriorated into
a very one dimensional puncher with limited arsenal
and no lateral head and body movement.

but still, his power was in tact and evander could
handle it, which makes me believe that he would
have been able to absorb young mike's force too.
could a young tyson handle the frustration better?
i do not know. i tend to think it would be more
competitive but evander would still make it prime
for prime. when they fought one could see that they
had actually very similar styles. relying on power,
not jabbing much, rather turn things into a brawl
than a boxing match. with one difference: iron will
on evander's part.

early mike gets a lot of credit for the fear he spread.
take that away and he is a strong heavy weight, yet
not a monster.

Posts like this are inaccurate.how was mike at 5ft 10 a small hw,on his own since the age of 12 ....a bully? Because he trained with greater discipline in his teenage years to become better than other fighters? Hes a bully cos he beat others easily?

Holmes was the big mouthed bully .Before the fight he hurled personal insult after insult while mike kept his dignity.the bully got whacked by mike.

Than mike has four years out of the ring and has the pressure of the world on him .mike knew he had lost his skills,his chin,his speed and even his power to some extent....the most important thing his fighting guts and hunger were long gone...lets be clear about this holyfield beat a shell...and the headbutts swung the first fight and evander reverted to cheating again when he saw he had a better mike in front of him in the rematch

Judah Ben Fur wrote:

man wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:I respect the Real Deal. But on his best night, he doesn't beat Iron Mike, circa 1985-88.

it is difficult to assess tyson in his early going
because the bully is always different in everything
before he is really challenged. i think the version
that hoyfield faced had definitely deteriorated into
a very one dimensional puncher with limited arsenal
and no lateral head and body movement.

but still, his power was in tact and evander could
handle it, which makes me believe that he would
have been able to absorb young mike's force too.
could a young tyson handle the frustration better?
i do not know. i tend to think it would be more
competitive but evander would still make it prime
for prime. when they fought one could see that they
had actually very similar styles. relying on power,
not jabbing much, rather turn things into a brawl
than a boxing match. with one difference: iron will
on evander's part.

early mike gets a lot of credit for the fear he spread.
take that away and he is a strong heavy weight, yet
not a monster.

Posts like this are inaccurate.how was mike at 5ft 10 a small hw,on his own since the age of 12 ....a bully? Because he trained with greater discipline in his teenage years to become better than other fighters? Hes a bully cos he beat others easily?

Holmes was the big mouthed bully .Before the fight he hurled personal insult after insult while mike kept his dignity.the bully got whacked by mike.

Than mike has four years out of the ring and has the pressure of the world on him .mike knew he had lost his skills,his chin,his speed and even his power to some extent....the most important thing his fighting guts and hunger were long gone...lets be clear about this holyfield beat a shell...and the headbutts swung the first fight and evander reverted to cheating again when he saw he had a better mike in front of him in the rematch

You're right about Holmes, he was very unpleasant about Tyson before & after the fight.

I remember saying something along the lines that Tyson will be in prison in a few years & even though that actually turned out to be correct, it wasn't a nice thing to say.

I can't agree about Holyfield's headbutts though: Evander did headbutt Tyson, but I can't feel any sympathy towards Tyson for that, as he did far worse things to opponents before he fought Holyfield, after he fought Holyfield & whilst he was fighting Holyfield.

The most egregious headbutt was delivered by Tyson. It's just another excuse for the Tyson fans in denial. They are among the most dedicated in sports history. Robin givens and headbutts. Lol

And I've never heard one of them mention that he hit Ruddock on the balls 100 times in 2 fights.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:The most egregious headbutt was delivered by Tyson. It's just another excuse for the Tyson fans in denial. They are among the most dedicated in sports history. Robin givens and headbutts. Lol

Spot on; he did commit the worst headbutt of the bout & used it an excuse to try & get out of the fight.

Judah Ben Fur wrote:Posts like this are inaccurate.how was mike at 5ft 10 a small hw,on his own since the age of 12 ....a bully?

tyson entered fights pretending he was literally
invincible. some opponents were totally thrown
off their game by that. this is what i was referring
to.

Judah Ben Fur wrote:..lets be clear about this holyfield beat a shell...and the headbutts swung the first fight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPLrP50g5l0
go to minute 40. this is the kind of head "butt"
we are talking about.

man wrote:

Judah Ben Fur wrote:Holyfield still had to headbutt like a billy goat

i always felt mike tyson exaggerated this
big time and some people fell for it.

Tyson was worse throughout his career than Holy IMO. I've watched both fights again and it seemed like aw ended had effective defence against Mikes head butting and this frustrated Tyson. In the first fight when mikes hurt by a headbut it's because he jumped in with his head and Holy simply ducked. Because Tyson was staggered it became a 'Holyfield head but'

Syntax Error wrote:I remember Mike Tyson saying during the post fight interview that he couldn't have beaten a prime Larry Holmes.

Whether he really meant it is a another thing though.

That was Tyson being clearly lucid, and not a hint of ludicrisp.

man wrote:

Judah Ben Fur wrote:Posts like this are inaccurate.how was mike at 5ft 10 a small hw,on his own since the age of 12 ....a bully?

tyson entered fights pretending he was literally
invincible. some opponents were totally thrown
off their game by that. this is what i was referring
to.
.

Isnt that a major part of boxing/fighting ....to reflect confidence rather than fear. All boxers have fear .By your own admission ,with the "pretending he was literally invincible" comment, you suggest Tyson was better at it than other boxers....your logic than says "Tysons a bully"!....i find that illogical....tysons far bigger opponents were trying to do the same to mike.....mike was just better than them at it...to tame fear in that way takes a,man of exceptional courage and that was tyson in his 85-91 prime....

frank bruno said before the fight he would punch tysons gold teeth out and ruth roper would be scrambling on the floor to pocket them.

Larry holmes said " im the one going down in history.he going down in history as a s.o.b"

Berbick,williams, gang leader green,etc etc they all threatened mike with humiliation and beating before the fight by your reasoning they were bullies too....every boxer is a bully

Tyson was a man of tremendous fortitude and mental toughness during 1985-91.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:The most egregious headbutt was delivered by Tyson. It's just another excuse for the Tyson fans in denial. They are among the most dedicated in sports history. Robin givens and headbutts. Lol

I agree you see them everywhere on youtube.

Like myself ,you lived through tysons late 80s peak, the excitement and total domination he showed.hell ,noted historian Jerry izenberg had him at no 2 on the all time heavyweight list.....

How would losing the love of his life givens in the most public humiliating fashion,having don king lead him astray,losing jacobs and his sister in a short time,and than being inactive for 4 years due to a rape conviction he vehemently disputes..... not affect him before facing a holyfield in 96 who although also over the hill still had all his stomach for the battle?

Fir the record i am no fan of tyson out of the ring, and have no interest in his career post 1991. Im willing to concede post 1991 holyfield beats him most times.

But i cant accept eh would have won against a 86-88 version or even the refocused 1991 vintage.but thats just my opinion.

Holyfield displayed many illegal antics in many of his fights during 96-2002.his wrestling,mauling and grabbing and headbutts in the ruiz trilogy and lewis fights,the rahman headbutt, and cyzyz allegation.you cite tysons crimes while being blind to holyfields

Im a huge evander fan and it hurts me to this day he was robbed v valuev and ruiz. I think evander is the greatest warrior the sport has seen since Ali in terms of determination and fearlesness.

Evander was very rough, unlike Tyson he could take what he dished out. I remember the time well, I told everyone that evander would beat Mike before he moved to heavy. Never wavered through the cancellation, the Douglas defeat, prison, etc.. Won money that night. Never had a single doubt, and certainly saw nothing in the ring to change my mind.I do think Mike would have been competitive earlier and it would have been a great fight instead of a one sided mugging that was an historic event. In the end, he always loses.

My guess is that Larry would find the path to victory the majority of the time in this battle of primes.

Larry had a pretty darn good uppercut and that might come in quite handy in this battle. Along with the jab.

And mental toughness.

But prime Tyson could be one ferocious dude early. Personally, I might have messed my trunks at the thought of going out there with him.

Judah Ben Fur wrote:Isnt that a major part of boxing/fighting ....to reflect confidence rather than fear. All boxers have fear .By your own admission ,with the "pretending he was literally invincible" comment, you suggest Tyson was better at it than other boxers....your logic than says "Tysons a bully"!....i find that illogical...

i absolutely agree. it is a perfectly legit
part of the game to psyche the other
guy out. why i refer to this in the context
with tyson as bullying is that he seemed
drastically less dangerous when the other
guy could withstand the initial onslaught.

watch tyson holy I. you fear for evander's
life for two thirds of the first round before
it turns into a pretty equal matchup.

on a sidenote. i do not want to come across
as a critic of mike tyson. i think he was a
tremendous boxer and possibly the fastest
heavy weight puncher in history.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I told everyone that evander would beat Mike before he moved to heavy.

that's a call to be proud of.

agree with u man

Saad thats one hell of a pick to make . I had very slight suspicions in the mcneeley fight that mike wasnt the same but totally attributed it to inactivity. By the time he had put away seldon it seemed all was well. The series of four quick kayoes seemed v impressive .he had me sold and most others

Obviously now we know the truth.

The irony is it was only around 2000- 2001 with a new trainer that finally we saw mikes defence ,body punching and slick combinations return....the prior botha fight had showed he still had a little will to win when the other guy fought back..but the total capitulation to lennox started a trend where tyson would just give up when he couldnt put his man away. I really beleive after 2000 mike lost a lot of power in his shots as his weight rose

I had money on Botha. Lol, I also bet everyone on the room on Williams after the first round.