BoxRec

Yes to Ali and Louis

Then there's a big group of real elite boxers

Johnson, Holmes, Holyfield, foreman, Lewis, Dempsey, Marciano, Tyson, Frazier etc

Vitali is a level below them

Mike Tyson was too stupid to be great at anything ...

... let alone boxing ...

... which requires more innate intelligence than any other sport ...

... (without question) ...

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My problem with Tyson's legacy is the Holyfield rematch. I remember thinking at the time that although Tyson had 4 fights since coming out of jail none of them had gone beyond 3 rounds so you could argue that he was still ring-rusty. I thought those blistering 11 rounds with Holyfield would sort that out and a fitter Tyson could win the rematch, great champions like Ali and Louis found a way to do better second time around, but Tyson didn't even try against Holyfield second time around, he was already beat before the fight started.

Neil Gee wrote: Tyson didn't even try against Holyfield second time around, he was already beat before the fight started.

Teddy Atlas: (1 day before the second fight) "Tyson will try to get lucky, naturally," but if he can't land a knockout punch early, "he's going to try to disqualify himself, either by elbowing, or throwing a low blow, butting or biting."

Tyson: (after the second fight) "Holyfield is not a tough warrior. He got a little cut on his ear and he quit. Holyfield didn't want to fight, regardless of what he did"

Neil Gee wrote:My problem with Tyson's legacy is the Holyfield rematch. I remember thinking at the time that although Tyson had 4 fights since coming out of jail none of them had gone beyond 3 rounds so you could argue that he was still ring-rusty. I thought those blistering 11 rounds with Holyfield would sort that out and a fitter Tyson could win the rematch, great champions like Ali and Louis found a way to do better second time around, but Tyson didn't even try against Holyfield second time around, he was already beat before the fight started.

Tyson definitely knew he was beaten before the rematch.

During the staredown for the rematch, Tyson looked as petrified as I have ever seen a fighter during a staredown.

He could barely look Holyfield in the eye & he looked like he wanted to burst into tears.

Tyson is arguably the biggest boxing fan there is & he knows fighters: he knew he could not beat Holyfield after the first fight.

Neil Gee wrote:My problem with Tyson's legacy is the Holyfield rematch. I remember thinking at the time that although Tyson had 4 fights since coming out of jail none of them had gone beyond 3 rounds so you could argue that he was still ring-rusty. I thought those blistering 11 rounds with Holyfield would sort that out and a fitter Tyson could win the rematch, great champions like Ali and Louis found a way to do better second time around, but Tyson didn't even try against Holyfield second time around, he was already beat before the fight started.

In a strange coincidence Tyson's career mirrors Ali's in that both had a sublime first half where they rewrote the handbook of pugilism. Then after an enforced layoff both had to adjust to life as mere mortals. Ali lost his legs and Tyson, his head movement. Ali's circle at least maintained some semblance of normality with Dundee and Brown et al whereas Tyson was soon swimming with all manner of sharks.

Ali's bravery in recovering from this fall from grace deservedly immortalized him. Tyson on the other hand found that top heavyweights were not all as accommodating as Frank Bruno. As just another normal sized easy to hit heavyweight his aura and confidence soon quickly evaporated.

Their legacies were damaged by too many ignominious defeats but they remain the biggest and most famous names in boxing.

Go and ask anyone.