BoxRec

Boxing Writer wrote: ↑19 Jun 2018, 23:40

x2x wrote: ↑19 Jun 2018, 20:37

bigjack wrote: ↑19 Jun 2018, 05:31

What,you've never mentioned him cheating against Vitali,maybe you've had too many beatings too ?

Not really. The only fights ive ever lost was when i knocked a guy out and the poor guy had to go to the hospital with a concussion, but as he fell he grabbed my legs and tripped me up and landed on top of me and the stupid ref said i hit the ground first or under him or something and lost which was very stupid imho. It was some kind of different rules in ____. The other was when i was a kid and fought two kids at the same time and the big guy wound up sitting on top of me and pushing on my nose so i thought it would break and i gave up. I couldnt quite figure out how to get out from under when when i was a kid and a bigger kid was sitting on top of me. I'm not sure ive ever quite figured that one out.

Watch Lewis vs Vitali in slow motion with the pause button and you'll see what he was doing. A real referee would have dq'd him. It's also odd that some of his oponents were drugged - Golota, Tyson...

Golota was drugged, but he was drugged by himself with that lidocaine injection.

Tyson wasn't drugged, he was just beynd shot.

x2x wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 00:06

Boxing Writer wrote: ↑19 Jun 2018, 23:40

x2x wrote: ↑19 Jun 2018, 20:37


Not really. The only fights ive ever lost was when i knocked a guy out and the poor guy had to go to the hospital with a concussion, but as he fell he grabbed my legs and tripped me up and landed on top of me and the stupid ref said i hit the ground first or under him or something and lost which was very stupid imho. It was some kind of different rules in ____. The other was when i was a kid and fought two kids at the same time and the big guy wound up sitting on top of me and pushing on my nose so i thought it would break and i gave up. I couldnt quite figure out how to get out from under when when i was a kid and a bigger kid was sitting on top of me. I'm not sure ive ever quite figured that one out.

Watch Lewis vs Vitali in slow motion with the pause button and you'll see what he was doing. A real referee would have dq'd him. It's also odd that some of his oponents were drugged - Golota, Tyson...

Golota was drugged, but he was drugged by himself with that lidocaine injection.

Tyson wasn't drugged, he was just beynd shot.

The incredibly bizarre behavior of Golota in the Lewis fight have never been explained. First thing i said when i saw Golota's glassy eyed face when he finally (!) entered the ring, was, "He's doped up". I know the look. Tyson too sounded like he was on cloud nine after the Lewis fight.

paddy chavez wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 02:35 I'm a fan of both but you can't really compare their resume Wlad beat maybe 3 good fighters in povetkin , Haye ( who might of been more hype than substance at heavyweight) and maybe chegav/ Peter's where as Lewis fought and beat ruddock, Mercer,holyfield,vitali, Morrison ,Tua ,Grant ,Golotta . it's just a completely different quality of fighters

Luis Fernando12 wrote: ↑19 Jun 2018, 16:54

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑19 Jun 2018, 11:00

Luis Fernando12 wrote: ↑19 Jun 2018, 04:32 Let's do the math:

Wladimir Klitschko = dominated the heavyweight division by remaining the number 1 heavyweight in the world for 10 years and had over 20 title defences.

Lennox Lewis = dominated the heavyweight division by remaining the number 1 heavyweight in the world for less than 10 years and had less than 20 title defences.

It's pretty simple! Wladimir Klitschko had the far superior boxing career. His heavyweight record is mathematically superior without any doubt.

As for Vitali Klitschko being better than Wladimir Klitschko. Lol. Vitali wasn't even better than Kubrat Pulev skill wise. And Vitali doesn't even have a better heavyweight record / resume than Wlad's leftover in Alexander Povetkin. That's just a fact! Vitali doesn't even compare to Wladimir Klitschko in terms of boxing accomplishments

A 38 year old Wladimir Klitschko cleanly KO'ed a prime Kubrat Pulev without needing any nonsensical referee stoppage. Whilst at the same age, Lewis needed the referee to gift him the victory against Vitali Klitschko because he was unable to win, purely on his own and retired like a coward by not giving Vitali the well deserved rematch that he earned. Wlad had the courage to continue fighting and proving himself, at a far older age.

There isn't any comparison! Lewis has no standout wins either. He beat no opponent that someone else also didn't beat, or didn't beat more convincingly / as convincingly. Whilst Wladimir Klitschko beat many opponents that only he beat, or beat most convincingly. E.G. Alexander Povetkin, Kubrat Pulev, Sultan Ibragimov and Eddie Chambers.

There's no logical way one could infer that Lewis was better. Not only was Wlad better, but he was better by a significant margin. Just a far superior athlete and technician overall.

He also fought in a much weaker era than Lewis did. The same old Tyson, the way he came out in the first round against Lewis likely would've caught Wladmir.

That's literally just your opinion and not a fact! What's not an opinion but a fact, is that Wladimir Klitschko dominated and remained THE number 1 heavyweight in the world for a decade during a time when there were over 4 billion people in the world. Therefore, Wladimir Klitschko > Lennox Lewis for dominating for a longer amount of time.

HeavyHitters wrote: ↑19 Jun 2018, 16:23 Ok, lets go to the stats here:

June 21st, 2003, Staples Center, Los Angeles, California

Vitali Klitschko ( 32-1-0 / 31 KO's )6' 7", 248 lbs, ( Age: 31, about one month shy of 32 )

Lennox Lewis ( 40-2-1 / 31 KO's )6' 5", 256.5 lbs, ( Age: 37, 6 days shy of 38 )

Vitali cut, and doctor stops fight for a TKO victory for Lewis.

Before the stoppage, Vitali was ahead on all score cards by 2 points, 58-56.

Judges ringside:

James Jen Kin 58-56 Vitali
Tom Kaczmarek 58-56 Vitali
Pat Russell 58-56 Vitali

Plus: Vitali was coming on stronger as the fight progressed.
Last fight for Lewis, announcing his retirement after his fight with Vitali.
Vitali went on to fight for another 9 plus years, going 13-0-0 with 9 KO's in the process.

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 10:06

Luis Fernando12 wrote: ↑19 Jun 2018, 16:54

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑19 Jun 2018, 11:00

He also fought in a much weaker era than Lewis did. The same old Tyson, the way he came out in the first round against Lewis likely would've caught Wladmir.

That's literally just your opinion and not a fact! What's not an opinion but a fact, is that Wladimir Klitschko dominated and remained THE number 1 heavyweight in the world for a decade during a time when there were over 4 billion people in the world. Therefore, Wladimir Klitschko > Lennox Lewis for dominating for a longer amount of time.

Lewis defeated every man he stepped in the ring even if lost to them at one point which is very dominant. Wlad hasn't. That is a FACT.

Luis Fernando12 wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 10:29

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 10:06

Luis Fernando12 wrote: ↑19 Jun 2018, 16:54

That's literally just your opinion and not a fact! What's not an opinion but a fact, is that Wladimir Klitschko dominated and remained THE number 1 heavyweight in the world for a decade during a time when there were over 4 billion people in the world. Therefore, Wladimir Klitschko > Lennox Lewis for dominating for a longer amount of time.

Lewis defeated every man he stepped in the ring even if lost to them at one point which is very dominant. Wlad hasn't. That is a FACT.

Lewis also had less fights than Wladimir Klitschko. Lewis also beat less opponents than Wladimir Klitschko. Lewis also had less wins than Wladimir Klitschko.

Having more wins and beating more opponents > having less wins and beating less opponents. Ergo, Wladimir Klitschko > Lennox Lewis!

Remaining the number 1 heavyweight in the world for a longer period of time > remaining the number 1 heavyweight in the world for a shorter period of time. Ergo, Wladimir Klitschko > Lennox Lewis again!

So what if Lennox Lewis beat every opponent he's ever faced? So has Deontay Wilder, and he's never lost, unlike Lennox Lewis. Does that mean Wilder is greater than Lewis? I don't think so!

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 10:34

Luis Fernando12 wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 10:29

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 10:06

Lewis defeated every man he stepped in the ring even if lost to them at one point which is very dominant. Wlad hasn't. That is a FACT.

Lewis also had less fights than Wladimir Klitschko. Lewis also beat less opponents than Wladimir Klitschko. Lewis also had less wins than Wladimir Klitschko.

Having more wins and beating more opponents > having less wins and beating less opponents. Ergo, Wladimir Klitschko > Lennox Lewis!

Remaining the number 1 heavyweight in the world for a longer period of time > remaining the number 1 heavyweight in the world for a shorter period of time. Ergo, Wladimir Klitschko > Lennox Lewis again!

So what if Lennox Lewis beat every opponent he's ever faced? So has Deontay Wilder, and he's never lost, unlike Lennox Lewis. Does that mean Wilder is greater than Lewis? I don't think so!

Less opponents doesn't mean anything when the opponent selection was weaker. SRL had less fights than James Toney but having wins over Duran, Hearns, Benetiz, and Hagler makes him better.

Lennox Lewis has beaten legends. Name one legend that Wladmir has beaten?

Luis Fernando12 wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 10:40

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 10:34

Luis Fernando12 wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 10:29

Lewis also had less fights than Wladimir Klitschko. Lewis also beat less opponents than Wladimir Klitschko. Lewis also had less wins than Wladimir Klitschko.

Having more wins and beating more opponents > having less wins and beating less opponents. Ergo, Wladimir Klitschko > Lennox Lewis!

Remaining the number 1 heavyweight in the world for a longer period of time > remaining the number 1 heavyweight in the world for a shorter period of time. Ergo, Wladimir Klitschko > Lennox Lewis again!

So what if Lennox Lewis beat every opponent he's ever faced? So has Deontay Wilder, and he's never lost, unlike Lennox Lewis. Does that mean Wilder is greater than Lewis? I don't think so!

Less opponents doesn't mean anything when the opponent selection was weaker. SRL had less fights than James Toney but having wins over Duran, Hearns, Benetiz, and Hagler makes him better.

Lennox Lewis has beaten legends. Name one legend that Wladmir has beaten?

Who you consider a 'legend' is literally your opinion, and not a fact. What 'legends' did Lennox Lewis beat exactly? Washed up Mike Tyson? Who was beaten more convincingly by Kevin McBride and Danny Williams. The same Kevin McBride who was knocked out cold by Wlad's leftover in Mariusz Wach. And the same Wach who was beaten from pillar to post by Wladimir Klitschko.

So Wladimir Klitschko > Mariusz Wach > Kevin McBride > Mike Tyson.

What other legends did Lewis beat? Oh, that's right! A washed up Evander Holyfield who Wlad's leftovers in Chris Byrd and Sultan Ibragimov beat more convincingly.

So again, Wladimir Klitschko > Chris Byrd & Sultan Ibragimov > Evander Holyfield.

What other 'legends' did Lewis beat? Go ahead and I'll expose Lewis's entire resume!

Prime Alexander Povetkin > any opponent Lennox lewis ever beat. Kubrat Pulev is arguably a better win than any Lennox Lewis win too.

I don't care what you 'SUBJECTIVELY' think of Wlad's level of opposition. Until you can CONCLUSIVELY prove Lewis's opponents were better, all that matters to me is that Wlad dominated the heavyweight division for longer and that's an objective fact, not an opinion.

Boxing Writer wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 03:15

paddy chavez wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 02:35 I'm a fan of both but you can't really compare their resume Wlad beat maybe 3 good fighters in povetkin , Haye ( who might of been more hype than substance at heavyweight) and maybe chegav/ Peter's where as Lewis fought and beat ruddock, Mercer,holyfield,vitali, Morrison ,Tua ,Grant ,Golotta . it's just a completely different quality of fighters

If you consider Grant as a good fighter, then you should consider McCline as a good fighter even more so since McCline dropped Grant with a first punch he threw and stopped him in 43 seconds.

If you consider Tua a good fighter, then you should definitely consider Chris Byrd as a better one since Byrd outboxed and outclassed Tua.

If you consider Golota as a good fighter, then you shoud definitely consider Brewster as a good one too since Brewster annihilated Golota in 52 seconds.

How one can disagree with this logic?

x2x wrote: ↑19 Jun 2018, 20:37

bigjack wrote: ↑19 Jun 2018, 05:31

x2x wrote: ↑19 Jun 2018, 05:28


I don't recall talking about Lewis on here before, but if did it just shows that you are slow to learn. From now on when you see me writing anything here i want you to take notes and then go home and memorize it.

What,you've never mentioned him cheating against Vitali,maybe you've had too many beatings too ?

Not really. The only fights ive ever lost was when i knocked a guy out and the poor guy had to go to the hospital with a concussion, but as he fell he grabbed my legs and tripped me up and landed on top of me and the stupid ref said i hit the ground first or under him or something and lost which was very stupid imho. It was some kind of different rules in ____. The other was when i was a kid and fought two kids at the same time and the big guy wound up sitting on top of me and pushing on my nose so i thought it would break and i gave up. I couldnt quite figure out how to get out from under when when i was a kid and a bigger kid was sitting on top of me. I'm not sure ive ever quite figured that one out.

Watch Lewis vs Vitali in slow motion with the pause button and you'll see what he was doing. A real referee would have dq'd him. It's also odd that some of his oponents were drugged - Golota, Tyson...

paddy chavez wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 13:23

Boxing Writer wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 03:15

paddy chavez wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 02:35 I'm a fan of both but you can't really compare their resume Wlad beat maybe 3 good fighters in povetkin , Haye ( who might of been more hype than substance at heavyweight) and maybe chegav/ Peter's where as Lewis fought and beat ruddock, Mercer,holyfield,vitali, Morrison ,Tua ,Grant ,Golotta . it's just a completely different quality of fighters

If you consider Grant as a good fighter, then you should consider McCline as a good fighter even more so since McCline dropped Grant with a first punch he threw and stopped him in 43 seconds.

If you consider Tua a good fighter, then you should definitely consider Chris Byrd as a better one since Byrd outboxed and outclassed Tua.

If you consider Golota as a good fighter, then you shoud definitely consider Brewster as a good one too since Brewster annihilated Golota in 52 seconds.

How one can disagree with this logic?

Byrd the former middle weight was much to small to trouble wlad Brewster KOd wlad so not sure what you're trying to say with that one Golotta was past it by the time he fought Brewster . Even if you take out Grant, Tua and Golotta Lewis still has a far better resume and your argument makes little sense

HeavyHitters wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 13:33

x2x wrote: ↑19 Jun 2018, 20:37

bigjack wrote: ↑19 Jun 2018, 05:31

What,you've never mentioned him cheating against Vitali,maybe you've had too many beatings too ?

Not really. The only fights ive ever lost was when i knocked a guy out and the poor guy had to go to the hospital with a concussion, but as he fell he grabbed my legs and tripped me up and landed on top of me and the stupid ref said i hit the ground first or under him or something and lost which was very stupid imho. It was some kind of different rules in ____. The other was when i was a kid and fought two kids at the same time and the big guy wound up sitting on top of me and pushing on my nose so i thought it would break and i gave up. I couldnt quite figure out how to get out from under when when i was a kid and a bigger kid was sitting on top of me. I'm not sure ive ever quite figured that one out.

Watch Lewis vs Vitali in slow motion with the pause button and you'll see what he was doing. A real referee would have dq'd him. It's also odd that some of his oponents were drugged - Golota, Tyson...

I just watched Vitali vs. Lewis last night on Youtube, and in the 3rd round, it WAS actually an illegal punch that Lewis landed to the left side of Vitali's face that opened up the cut. If you watch carefully, you can see that Lewis has his right arm wrapped around behind Vitali's head, holding him while he throws the illegal blow to open up the cut.

This should have been replayed in between the 3rd and 4th rounds to determine that Lewis did not throw a legal punch to open up the cut. Therefore, when the fight doctor halted the fight after 6 rounds, it should have been declared a DQ victory in favor of Vitali Klitschko.

And yes, Vitali was coming on at the end of the 6th round. Vitali won rounds 1, 2, 4, and 5, while Lewis was credited for winning rounds 3 and 6, from all 3 judges. But "giving" round 6 to Lewis was more "charity" than anything, given the fact that he only landed a few good punches in that round, that really didn't have much of an effect on Vitali.

If you was listening to and "buying" all the biased rhetoric the British commentators were spewing, then yes, I can see how you was influenced into thinking Lewis was coming on strong, when in reality, he wasn't.

Remember, this fight basically FORCED Lennox Lewis into retirement. He had the option to either fight Vitali in a rematch, in which he wanted no part of again. Or face Roy Jones, who, if he loses to, might ruin his legacy. So, Lewis chose to retire.

And you can hear it in Lewis' "scatter-brained" interview after the fight, how relieved he was that he survived this fight with Vitali, on a "cut" technicality. I think he actually says something like "The ref never hurt me." ha ha

Boxing Writer wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 14:18

paddy chavez wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 13:23

Boxing Writer wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 03:15
If you consider Grant as a good fighter, then you should consider McCline as a good fighter even more so since McCline dropped Grant with a first punch he threw and stopped him in 43 seconds.

If you consider Tua a good fighter, then you should definitely consider Chris Byrd as a better one since Byrd outboxed and outclassed Tua.

If you consider Golota as a good fighter, then you shoud definitely consider Brewster as a good one too since Brewster annihilated Golota in 52 seconds.

How one can disagree with this logic?

Byrd the former middle weight was much to small to trouble wlad Brewster KOd wlad so not sure what you're trying to say with that one Golotta was past it by the time he fought Brewster . Even if you take out Grant, Tua and Golotta Lewis still has a far better resume and your argument makes little sense

No, my argument is very valid because I'm not saying Wlad has better or ecqual resume. And Wlad is 1-1 against Brewster by the way. As for Byrd, yes he was too small to trouble Wlad, but wasn't 5'9" Tua too short to trouble Lewis? Some lightweights are taller.

paddy chavez wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 14:37

Boxing Writer wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 14:18

paddy chavez wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 13:23

Byrd the former middle weight was much to small to trouble wlad Brewster KOd wlad so not sure what you're trying to say with that one Golotta was past it by the time he fought Brewster . Even if you take out Grant, Tua and Golotta Lewis still has a far better resume and your argument makes little sense

No, my argument is very valid because I'm not saying Wlad has better or ecqual resume. And Wlad is 1-1 against Brewster by the way. As for Byrd, yes he was too small to trouble Wlad, but wasn't 5'9" Tua too short to trouble Lewis? Some lightweights are taller.

Tua could punch and had a chance to win Byrd was never going to outbox wlad or ko wlad ...and your argument holds no water it's bordering on childish with your reasoning Jimmy thunder was better than Ali as thunder beat berbick who beat Ali ......
I don't for one second believe you think Wlad thought fighters as good as Lewis did rather you're trolling which is ok if you're funny but just rather sad in your case .

snake33 wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 14:40 Lewis, much better. Better movement, better chin, better right hand, better jab.
Lewis fell victom to two punches but usually sucked it up and found a way to win.
Maybe the best ever.

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 12:19

Luis Fernando12 wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 10:40

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 10:34

Less opponents doesn't mean anything when the opponent selection was weaker. SRL had less fights than James Toney but having wins over Duran, Hearns, Benetiz, and Hagler makes him better.

Lennox Lewis has beaten legends. Name one legend that Wladmir has beaten?

Who you consider a 'legend' is literally your opinion, and not a fact. What 'legends' did Lennox Lewis beat exactly? Washed up Mike Tyson? Who was beaten more convincingly by Kevin McBride and Danny Williams. The same Kevin McBride who was knocked out cold by Wlad's leftover in Mariusz Wach. And the same Wach who was beaten from pillar to post by Wladimir Klitschko.

So Wladimir Klitschko > Mariusz Wach > Kevin McBride > Mike Tyson.

What other legends did Lewis beat? Oh, that's right! A washed up Evander Holyfield who Wlad's leftovers in Chris Byrd and Sultan Ibragimov beat more convincingly.

So again, Wladimir Klitschko > Chris Byrd & Sultan Ibragimov > Evander Holyfield.

What other 'legends' did Lewis beat? Go ahead and I'll expose Lewis's entire resume!

Prime Alexander Povetkin > any opponent Lennox lewis ever beat. Kubrat Pulev is arguably a better win than any Lennox Lewis win too.

I don't care what you 'SUBJECTIVELY' think of Wlad's level of opposition. Until you can CONCLUSIVELY prove Lewis's opponents were better, all that matters to me is that Wlad dominated the heavyweight division for longer and that's an objective fact, not an opinion.

Evander Holyfield is a legend. Lewis beat him. This wasn't the old Holyfield who Ibragimov beat and James Toney stopped. Holyfield is better than EVERYONE Wlad has faced including Wlad himself, there's no comparison. Morrison and Bruno are better than most of the names on Wlad's resume. What's Wlad's best win?

And let's not forget, he DID win against Vitali, something I doubt Wlad could do.

Luis Fernando12 wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 19:44

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 12:19

Luis Fernando12 wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 10:40

Who you consider a 'legend' is literally your opinion, and not a fact. What 'legends' did Lennox Lewis beat exactly? Washed up Mike Tyson? Who was beaten more convincingly by Kevin McBride and Danny Williams. The same Kevin McBride who was knocked out cold by Wlad's leftover in Mariusz Wach. And the same Wach who was beaten from pillar to post by Wladimir Klitschko.

So Wladimir Klitschko > Mariusz Wach > Kevin McBride > Mike Tyson.

What other legends did Lewis beat? Oh, that's right! A washed up Evander Holyfield who Wlad's leftovers in Chris Byrd and Sultan Ibragimov beat more convincingly.

So again, Wladimir Klitschko > Chris Byrd & Sultan Ibragimov > Evander Holyfield.

What other 'legends' did Lewis beat? Go ahead and I'll expose Lewis's entire resume!

Prime Alexander Povetkin > any opponent Lennox lewis ever beat. Kubrat Pulev is arguably a better win than any Lennox Lewis win too.

I don't care what you 'SUBJECTIVELY' think of Wlad's level of opposition. Until you can CONCLUSIVELY prove Lewis's opponents were better, all that matters to me is that Wlad dominated the heavyweight division for longer and that's an objective fact, not an opinion.

Evander Holyfield is a legend. Lewis beat him. This wasn't the old Holyfield who Ibragimov beat and James Toney stopped. Holyfield is better than EVERYONE Wlad has faced including Wlad himself, there's no comparison. Morrison and Bruno are better than most of the names on Wlad's resume. What's Wlad's best win?

And let's not forget, he DID win against Vitali, something I doubt Wlad could do.

Yes, it was the same old Holyfield that also lost to Chris Byrd. Lennox Lewis needed 2 fights to beat an old Evander Holyfield whilst losing many rounds and whilst arguably not winning one of those fights. Whilst Chris Byrd beat old Holyfield needing only 1 fight and didn't lose a single round whilst at it.

If Holyfield is a legend, then Chris Byrd is an even greater legend. Since he totally outclassed, dominated and beat Holyfield easily. Chris Byrd is arguably better than any version of Evander Holyfield. So again, Wladimir Klitschko > Chris Byrd > Evander Holyfield.

Alexander Povetkin (and Kubrat Pulev) are better than all of those guys, including Holyfield. An old Povetkin still hasn't lost against anybody other than Wlad. Whilst Holyfield lost to guys like Larry Donald. Tommy Morrison lost to a bunch of nobodies before he lost to Lennox Lewis. Something that has never happened to Povetkin or Kubrat Pulev. Same with Frank Bruno, who isn't on Pulev's level.

Kubrat Pulev and Alexander Povetkin >>> Lennox Lewis's resume!

And no, Holyfield isn't better than Wlad. Simply because he wasn't the dominant number 1 heavyweight in the world for as long, or longer than Wlad was. Length of time as the number 1 heavyweight in the world = level of greatness!

Povetkin and Pulev have 0 losses to anybody not named Wladimir Klitschko. Evander Holyfield has multiples losses to guys not named Lennox Lewis. Ergo, Holyfield is overrated and not as great as you claim, and certainly not as great as Povetkin.