BoxRec

Grilling Machine wrote: ↑28 Sep 2018, 20:42 Yeah, but Joe Louis was 137 years old.

That’s true. I bumped into Frank Sinatra last week who confirmed it.

ewenhay wrote: ↑01 Oct 2018, 16:52

tobyh5 wrote: ↑01 Oct 2018, 16:20

astradamus wrote: ↑01 Oct 2018, 12:56
No, AJ has beaten 3 Olympic super heavyweight champions, Tyson just one, Holmes 0, Ali never even faced one at all.

Oh, maybe they have beaten lighter olympic champions, I'm not a 100% sure about that.

Now I understand why people said to ignore you. What a complete fcking idiot you really are.

AJ is better than Ali, partly because Ali never beat an Olympic Superheavyweight champion? Are you a troll, stupid or a child?

"Never argue with a fool. Onlookers may not be able to tell the difference." Mark Twain

The super Heavy division was only called that for the first time in 1984 you crackhead. It was just called Heavyweight before then (same division)

Ali beat Frazier and Foreman, both Gold medalists and Leon Spinks, Light Heavy God Medalist... you crackhead

astradamus wrote: ↑03 Oct 2018, 08:30

nitro5912 wrote: ↑02 Oct 2018, 13:02

astradamus wrote: ↑02 Oct 2018, 12:39
These are your words, I just named the fact that he already beated 3 super heavyweight olympic champions of the world this early in his carreer, something nobody ever achieved in history. Ali has also done things that are amazing, especially at the time. Athletes allways improve, what can I change about the fact that AJ is taller, stronger, and got better competition around him?

How the eff could Ali win an Olympic super heavyweight gold when it didn't become a weight class until 1984 when he was 42 & had already been in 61 professional fights?

I don't mind, Ali fought 3 olympic champions, some light heavyweights, some heavyweights, and he won against some, he lost against some, AJ won them all and if heavyweight Usyk receives a chance against AJ and AJ wins that as well, he simply surpassed Ali in beating olympic champions. I can't make much else of it then saying AJ is simply the better men if you look at it this way. It's not like I disrespect Ali his performances, I just compare them to AJ his and can't make much else of it that AJ is statistically the better men, especially at this age. People don't realise how impressive AJ his performances are right now, what more can he do to proof himself? What more can you ask from him? He might not have the advertisements the Americans had and it's more easy to know all facts or contradict what the media spreads, but purely looking at the facts, AJ is writing history like an absolute legend.

*prove

astradamus wrote: ↑03 Oct 2018, 08:33

candyslim wrote: ↑02 Oct 2018, 14:10 I think you've just nailed the main flaw in his argument.

Flaw? All I did is stating facts, if you think it's not impressive to KO olympic champion after olympic champion, or even beat more experienced ones while beïng an amateur, you can't blame me from that. All I did was stating facts.

I was referring to the fact that the Super-Heavyweight division was not in existence at that time, making it rather difficult for Ali to get wins over Super-Heavyweight Gold Medalists, no?

This has already been pointed out and I'm sure you understood perfectly. There are quite enough posters on here making unkind comments about your powers of reasoning. I'd rather not join the chorus if it's all the same to you.

I am a big fan of Anthony Joshua and you won't find me belittling his considerable achievements.

astradamus wrote: ↑02 Oct 2018, 12:39

tobyh5 wrote: ↑01 Oct 2018, 16:20

astradamus wrote: ↑01 Oct 2018, 12:56
No, AJ has beaten 3 Olympic super heavyweight champions, Tyson just one, Holmes 0, Ali never even faced one at all.

Oh, maybe they have beaten lighter olympic champions, I'm not a 100% sure about that.

Now I understand why people said to ignore you. What a complete fcking idiot you really are.

AJ is better than Ali, partly because Ali never beat an Olympic Superheavyweight champion? Are you a troll, stupid or a child?

These are your words, I just named the fact that he already beated 3 super heavyweight olympic champions of the world this early in his carreer, something nobody ever achieved in history. Ali has also done things that are amazing, especially at the time. Athletes allways improve, what can I change about the fact that AJ is taller, stronger, and got better competition around him?

It's quite spurious reasoning. Saying things like, for instance, 'No one has ever won X amount of titles,' when the titles didn't exist to win until the current day; or 'no one beat so many fighters of X Olympian class'--when that class didn't exist until the current day, is obviously absurd. It's like people who now try to downgrade Lennox or any other 90s heavyweight for not truly being an undisputed champ, because they weren't WBO champ, ignoring/being unaware of the fact the WBO belt was a second-division title in the 90s. Anyone with an iota of common sense can see the issue with your arguments; if you can too then you're a troll, if you can't then you're an idiot. What else is there to say?

Oh I realise from further reason he's obviously a troll

astradamus wrote: ↑03 Oct 2018, 10:08

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑03 Oct 2018, 09:52

astradamus wrote: ↑02 Oct 2018, 12:39
These are your words, I just named the fact that he already beated 3 super heavyweight olympic champions of the world this early in his carreer, something nobody ever achieved in history. Ali has also done things that are amazing, especially at the time. Athletes allways improve, what can I change about the fact that AJ is taller, stronger, and got better competition around him?

It's quite spurious reasoning. Saying things like, for instance, 'No one has ever won X amount of titles,' when the titles didn't exist to win until the current day; or 'no one beat so many fighters of X Olympian class'--when that class didn't exist until the current day, is obviously absurd. It's like people who now try to downgrade Lennox or any other 90s heavyweight for not truly being an undisputed champ, because they weren't WBO champ, ignoring/being unaware of the fact the WBO belt was a second-division title in the 90s. Anyone with an iota of common sense can see the issue with your arguments; if you can too then you're a troll, if you can't then you're an idiot. What else is there to say?

Oké, go ahead, name anything remotely close and compare that, I think I can still claim nobody in history has ever proved this much in 22 fights as AJ has. If you're a fan of boxing, you would only dream of the numbers AJ is showing. If you compare AJ to Fury or Wilder, then I rate AJ far, far above both of them. AJ already got more points on boxrec then Wilder and Fury combined have and he's probably barely halfway his carreer. That's very very impressive to say at least. Even in historical perspective, I don't think I can name anyone with similar achievements. Even Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano and so forth can at most be compareble, yes they won everything, but not with such a high KO rating and things like that.

Now don't think that I call either of them a bum or something, they did the best they could in their era, Joe Louis was the lineal champion for well over 13 years without beïng inactive (like Fury is). All I say is that AJ seems to show even better numbers at this moment then they did at the time. I think AJ genuinly seems to become the best boxer in history. Not only because of the olympics and all his fights around that, it's the whole story around it as well.

Leon Spinks beat Ali for the title in his 9th fight... not Charles Martin... Ali

I think "the best boxer in history" could at least outbox Wladimir Klitschko--particularly a 41 year old version with severe ring rust.

That being said, the starry eyed tone of your reply tells me what you're up to; good luck.

astradamus wrote: ↑03 Oct 2018, 10:08

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑03 Oct 2018, 09:52

astradamus wrote: ↑02 Oct 2018, 12:39
These are your words, I just named the fact that he already beated 3 super heavyweight olympic champions of the world this early in his carreer, something nobody ever achieved in history. Ali has also done things that are amazing, especially at the time. Athletes allways improve, what can I change about the fact that AJ is taller, stronger, and got better competition around him?

It's quite spurious reasoning. Saying things like, for instance, 'No one has ever won X amount of titles,' when the titles didn't exist to win until the current day; or 'no one beat so many fighters of X Olympian class'--when that class didn't exist until the current day, is obviously absurd. It's like people who now try to downgrade Lennox or any other 90s heavyweight for not truly being an undisputed champ, because they weren't WBO champ, ignoring/being unaware of the fact the WBO belt was a second-division title in the 90s. Anyone with an iota of common sense can see the issue with your arguments; if you can too then you're a troll, if you can't then you're an idiot. What else is there to say?

Oké, go ahead, name anything remotely close and compare that, I think I can still claim nobody in history has ever proved this much in 22 fights as AJ has. If you're a fan of boxing, you would only dream of the numbers AJ is showing. If you compare AJ to Fury or Wilder, then I rate AJ far, far above both of them. AJ already got more points on boxrec then Wilder and Fury combined have and he's probably barely halfway his carreer. That's very very impressive to say at least. Even in historical perspective, I don't think I can name anyone with similar achievements. Even Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano and so forth can at most be compareble, yes they won everything, but not with such a high KO rating and things like that.

Now don't think that I call either of them a bum or something, they did the best they could in their era, Joe Louis was the lineal champion for well over 13 years without beïng inactive (like Fury is). All I say is that AJ seems to show even better numbers at this moment then they did at the time. I think AJ genuinly seems to become the best boxer in history. Not only because of the olympics and all his fights around that, it's the whole story around it as well.

WOW!!!!!
Whatever you are smoking it must be some good stuff

PredatorHayds wrote: ↑03 Oct 2018, 04:56

Grilling Machine wrote: ↑28 Sep 2018, 20:42Yeah, but Joe Louis was 137 years old.

That’s true. I bumped into Frank Sinatra last week who confirmed it.

Joshua's done well, but what about Rocky Marciano?

Grilling Machine wrote: ↑03 Oct 2018, 17:39

PredatorHayds wrote: ↑03 Oct 2018, 04:56

Grilling Machine wrote: ↑28 Sep 2018, 20:42Yeah, but Joe Louis was 137 years old.

That’s true. I bumped into Frank Sinatra last week who confirmed it.

Fury's done well, but what about Rocky Marciano?

How come every time I talk about boxing a White man got to talk about
Rocky Marciano, Rocky Marciano.
That’s their one.

PredatorHayds wrote: ↑03 Oct 2018, 17:42

Grilling Machine wrote: ↑03 Oct 2018, 17:39

PredatorHayds wrote: ↑03 Oct 2018, 04:56That’s true. I bumped into Frank Sinatra last week who confirmed it.

Fury's done well, but what about Rocky Marciano?

How come every time I talk about boxing a White man got to talk about
Rocky Marciano, Rocky Marciano.
That’s their one.

That scene was an instant classic. Never get's old

Grilling Machine wrote: ↑28 Sep 2018, 20:42 Yeah, but Joe Louis was 137 years old.

I've only just watched that 'Coming to America' clip. Now I get your comment

That was pretty funny and not without an element of truth. Marciano was quite a fighter but his undefeated record is flattering and I very much doubt he beats Louis prime for prime.

tiny_acres wrote: ↑03 Oct 2018, 17:37

astradamus wrote: ↑03 Oct 2018, 10:08

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑03 Oct 2018, 09:52
It's quite spurious reasoning. Saying things like, for instance, 'No one has ever won X amount of titles,' when the titles didn't exist to win until the current day; or 'no one beat so many fighters of X Olympian class'--when that class didn't exist until the current day, is obviously absurd. It's like people who now try to downgrade Lennox or any other 90s heavyweight for not truly being an undisputed champ, because they weren't WBO champ, ignoring/being unaware of the fact the WBO belt was a second-division title in the 90s. Anyone with an iota of common sense can see the issue with your arguments; if you can too then you're a troll, if you can't then you're an idiot. What else is there to say?

Oké, go ahead, name anything remotely close and compare that, I think I can still claim nobody in history has ever proved this much in 22 fights as AJ has. If you're a fan of boxing, you would only dream of the numbers AJ is showing. If you compare AJ to Fury or Wilder, then I rate AJ far, far above both of them. AJ already got more points on boxrec then Wilder and Fury combined have and he's probably barely halfway his carreer. That's very very impressive to say at least. Even in historical perspective, I don't think I can name anyone with similar achievements. Even Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano and so forth can at most be compareble, yes they won everything, but not with such a high KO rating and things like that.

Now don't think that I call either of them a bum or something, they did the best they could in their era, Joe Louis was the lineal champion for well over 13 years without beïng inactive (like Fury is). All I say is that AJ seems to show even better numbers at this moment then they did at the time. I think AJ genuinly seems to become the best boxer in history. Not only because of the olympics and all his fights around that, it's the whole story around it as well.

WOW!!!!!
Whatever you are smoking it must be some good stuff

How many times must I say it? Crack.. he loves crack

Lewis didn't win the WBO but he did beat the champion Akinwande.

candyslim wrote: ↑04 Oct 2018, 03:43

Grilling Machine wrote: ↑28 Sep 2018, 20:42 Yeah, but Joe Louis was 137 years old.

I've only just watched that 'Coming to America' clip. Now I get your comment

That was pretty funny and not without an element of truth. Marciano was quite a fighter but his undefeated record is flattering and I very much doubt he beats Louis prime for prime.

You must be quite young. Not an insult by the way.
That was such a classic scene. I still laugh every time I see it

Yes Tiny I'm a callow youth of 61. When I say I've only just seen the clip, I do mean the clip not the film which I saw back in the eighties. Maybe if I were youger I'd have remembered that scene, eh?

I don't think I've seen it shown previously outside of the whole film. Maybe I need to get out more

candyslim wrote: ↑04 Oct 2018, 08:53 Yes Tiny I'm a callow youth of 61. When I say I've only just seen the clip, I do mean the clip not the film which I saw back in the eighties. Maybe if I were youger I'd have remembered that scene, eh?

I don't think I've seen it shown previously outside of the whole film. Maybe I need to get out more

Lol.. And I thought I was the only old bastard on here
Sorry for the assumption my friend

tiny_acres wrote: ↑04 Oct 2018, 09:04

candyslim wrote: ↑04 Oct 2018, 08:53 Yes Tiny I'm a callow youth of 61. When I say I've only just seen the clip, I do mean the clip not the film which I saw back in the eighties. Maybe if I were youger I'd have remembered that scene, eh?

I don't think I've seen it shown previously outside of the whole film. Maybe I need to get out more

Lol.. And I thought I was the only old bastard on here
Sorry for the assumption my friend

Don't worry. I've no problem with being thought younger but these days it sadly tends to be sight unseen

candyslim wrote: ↑04 Oct 2018, 13:37

tiny_acres wrote: ↑04 Oct 2018, 09:04

candyslim wrote: ↑04 Oct 2018, 08:53 Yes Tiny I'm a callow youth of 61. When I say I've only just seen the clip, I do mean the clip not the film which I saw back in the eighties. Maybe if I were youger I'd have remembered that scene, eh?

I don't think I've seen it shown previously outside of the whole film. Maybe I need to get out more

Lol.. And I thought I was the only old bastard on here
Sorry for the assumption my friend

Don't worry. I've no problem with being thought younger but these days it sadly tends to be sight unseen

I fully understand

Controversial wrote: ↑25 Sep 2018, 13:29 For arguments sakes Fury outpoints Wilder then AJ before retiring with a 29-0 (19KO) record. With wins over Klitschko, Wilder and AJ how would he rank amongst the likes of Ali, Louis, Holmes etc?

Considering how high people hold AJ (ie, "Ali vs AJ who wins?") and considering everyone seems to be writing Fury (yet again) completely off against Wilder..... IF he beats both men, he would be the best big man since Lennox Lewis without question.... The irony for me is how people dismiss Fury's win over Klitschko, claiming Vladimir was old, and yet they'll say an older, more inactive Klitschko was the greatest heavyweight fight they've ever seen for Anthony Joshua.

There's no logical consistency with such people. For me, personally, Wilder is better than AJ. Forget all the arguments of pedigree (ie, bronze medal vs gold medal), he's simply too reckless and powerful and fast for the robotic AJ who fights in a straight line. AJ got a title shot when he didn't necessarily deserve it, and fought an old man (nearly losing in the process) for the crown and his best wins have been against old men who are undersized (Povetkin) or straight out small men with limited capabilities.

But if Fury achieves all these things, he'll never get the credit he deserves. Even if he unified the titles against the two men and then defended (successfully) against Miller and others out there he'd be scoffed at as nothing more than a byproduct of an incredibly weak era--- when the truth is the heavyweights are finally hitting a major upswing in overall talent. People are just bitching because they don't like him personally (for various reasons, racial and personal) and don't find his style of boxing to be exciting.

If he beats Wilder and AJ, he'll be just outside the top ten in heavyweight history. After all, how many 5'10"-6'1" heavyweights weighing 185-200 pounds beating a 6'9" 250 pound switch hitter with good speed and ring generalship? I can't see it being done. I have a hard time imagining Ali beating the Klitschko's let alone someone like Fury based on size differentials and overall athleticism.

lol too funny for anyone to single out aj for fighting old guys

fury and wilders best wins by miles are both over guys almost 40. aj actually has better record then either vs non old guys....whyte, parker, breazeale...

also hilarious how wilders sloppiness is now dressed up and treated like some big strength, rather then something that got him hurt by molina and losing rounds to artur szpilka,despite being longer, harder hitting, and faster then both. if someone with his excellent natural gifts (maybe the best of all 3) had this supposed style advantage then he would be breezing past everyone hes fought

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑04 Oct 2018, 18:56
The irony for me is how people dismiss Fury's win over Klitschko, claiming Vladimir was old

I don't dismiss it because Klitschko was old, he was still very good against AJ, it just wasn't a great fight because neither man threw any punches. Fury certainly surprised me by winning but it wasn't like he won it in style. One of the worst title fights I've ever seen.

Bottom line is however sh*t people think the fight was and how low the punch out out was most people thought fury was going to get sparked within 4

And he never

It is funny how many people still don't know what happened in the Wlad vs Fury fight.

Wlad had spent the last ten years beating boxers from outside using speed, reach advantage and superior boxing skills. He eliminated all infighting by clinching if the opponent got close.

Suddenly he was in a ring with guy who had even bigger reach and speed than him. He was being outboxed in hes own game. He was not able to make adjustments on the fly and lost the match.

I never would have thought that Fury was capable of boxing full 12 rounds with that game plan. But he did. The win was great and deserves much more respect than AJ's win over Wlad few years later.

I still think that Wlad would have won the rematch if that ever happened.