BoxRec

Bandog wrote: ↑24 Jul 2021, 13:25 I'm curious how Plant became an elite world class boxer like he says, when he only had 20 amateur fights against other very average amateurs, and lost just over half of them, turning pro in 2014? Good trainer?

ffs dude, you really are something

the boxrec am records are highly incomplete, and is included is often just national or international level fights

plant had over 100 amateur fights and won a national golden gloves title, arguably the biggest usa amateur tournament out there

take another fighter, your boi luis ortiz, coming from cuba and being an amateur for years and years, do you really think his full record was 21-14?

https://boxrec.com/en/amateurboxer/528949

Plant has the belt Canelo covets, which gives Plant a shot at them all. I like this fight. Plant deserves his shot. Contrary to his legend, Canelo is beatable.

It won’t likely be by Plant though.

panchito wrote: ↑24 Jul 2021, 20:00

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑24 Jul 2021, 19:56

Bandog wrote: ↑24 Jul 2021, 13:25 I'm curious how Plant became an elite world class boxer like he says, when he only had 20 amateur fights against other very average amateurs, and lost just over half of them, turning pro in 2014? Good trainer?

ffs dude, you really are something

the boxrec am records are highly incomplete, and is included is often just national or international level fights

plant had over 100 amateur fights and won a national golden gloves title, arguably the biggest usa amateur tournament out there

take another fighter, your boi luis ortiz, coming from cuba and being an amateur for years and years, do you real think his full record was 21-14?

https://boxrec.com/en/amateurboxer/528949

Well said indeed old chap.

As an amateur, Caleb Plant took up boxing at the age of 8. He won the 2011 Golden Gloves in the light heavyweight division. Plant was an alternate for the 2012 Summer Olympics. As an amateur Caleb won numerous tournament titles while compiling a record of 97 wins with only 20 defeats.

Caleb Plant was also a nine-time national champion and five-time world champion at kickboxing, which was a sport he initially took up when he was only nine years of age.

Yeah but can he shock the world though? I like ironbeard's response "Plant deserves his shot."

panchito wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 15:10

The Asleep Lamps wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 14:12 I like ironbeard's response "Plant deserves his shot."

The retort from ironbeard was very realistic. Canelo has to be favored in this match but Plant is deserving of a shot and will be as live an underdog as we've seen, IMHO.

I will say, however, that many of the remarks I've read from posters on the board about Plant are absolutely dreadful and undeserving, TBQH.

Yes gents, he's a yank, but he appears to be a solid guy from what I've seen all-around.

I would have preferred the question, is this card worth the PPV price? Now that we know it will be a full PPV not on DAZN.

panchito wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 15:53

The Asleep Lamps wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 15:33 I would have preferred the question, is this card worth the PPV

The answer is obviously subjective but why not see how the full card looks...? Imagine that.

I already imagined it. That's why I stated it the way I did.

panchito wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 16:04

The Asleep Lamps wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 16:01
I already imagined it. That's why I stated it the way I did.

Then you should share it with us

Which other match-ups on the card don't you like...?

It's going to be a doubleheader with Garcia vs Prograis. You heard it here first.

The Asleep Lamps wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 14:12 Yeah but can he shock the world though? I like ironbeard's response "Plant deserves his shot."

Canelos fourth fight in 9(?) months

I don’t think a Plant win would be some monumental historic upset.

Canelo is about 1/7 to win
Klitchko was 1/20 to beat Sanders
Plant is 6/1 to get the win
Ruiz was 30/1 to beat AJ

Wales wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 22:34

The Asleep Lamps wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 14:12 Yeah but can he shock the world though? I like ironbeard's response "Plant deserves his shot."

Canelos fourth fight in 9(?) months

I don’t think a Plant win would be some monumental historic upset.

Canelo is about 1/7 to win
Klitchko was 1/20 to beat Sanders
Plant is 6/1 to get the win
Ruiz was 30/1 to beat AJ

Where the fuk were you getting 30/1 odds on ruiz... more like 10/1.

gregregegg wrote: ↑26 Jul 2021, 01:04

Wales wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 22:34

The Asleep Lamps wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 14:12 Yeah but can he shock the world though? I like ironbeard's response "Plant deserves his shot."

Canelos fourth fight in 9(?) months

I don’t think a Plant win would be some monumental historic upset.

Canelo is about 1/7 to win
Klitchko was 1/20 to beat Sanders
Plant is 6/1 to get the win
Ruiz was 30/1 to beat AJ

Where the fuk were you getting 30/1 odds on ruiz... more like 10/1.

To be fair I agree - it’s one thing seeing reported odds another actually putting a bet on with them odds. Not sure at what point in the betting the odds went that long or for how long - here’s some links

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/b ... /39530465/

https://apnews.com/article/3fb343668b32 ... 43b68860aa

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony ... dy_Ruiz_Jr.

Wales wrote: ↑26 Jul 2021, 01:11

gregregegg wrote: ↑26 Jul 2021, 01:04

Wales wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 22:34

Canelos fourth fight in 9(?) months

I don’t think a Plant win would be some monumental historic upset.

Canelo is about 1/7 to win
Klitchko was 1/20 to beat Sanders
Plant is 6/1 to get the win
Ruiz was 30/1 to beat AJ

Where the fuk were you getting 30/1 odds on ruiz... more like 10/1.

To be fair I agree - it’s one thing seeing reported odds another actually putting a bet on with them odds. Not sure at what point in the betting the odds went that long or for how long - here’s some links

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/b ... /39530465/

https://apnews.com/article/3fb343668b32 ... 43b68860aa

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony ... dy_Ruiz_Jr.

Absolutly never saw that, and dont think it existed. My guess is one poor sports journalist wrote an artical and saw AJ was 1-30 and so just switched em for ruiz to 30-1.... seems like something you can do, absolutely is not.... either that or they just missread and saw a draw paying 30-1 and assumed it was the underdog ruiz.... or it was some crazy promo bet that the bookies will lose money on to sign you up...

I assume its one of the above, otherwise im very very sad i never found that bookies to put the house on...

Cannot disagree with you whatsoever mate

I knew for the purpose of this thread Ruiz would have had longer odds than plant so checked and was guilty myself of seeing those numbers and just thinking “fornicate me that’s longer than I thought” and not questioning it further

Even at 10/1 it’s longer odds than plant .

Guess the difference is (arguing against my own point now) likes of Ruiz have a punchers chance, Plant doesn’t , relatively speaking

I don't think he will win. I'm not buying the fight or advising anyone else to unless it has a co main event that could stand on its own as a main event and I don't think Dillian Whyte vs a journeyman qualifies.

I think Whyte is fighting Jermain Franklin on that card / next

I think Jermaine Franklin might take great exception to being described as a journeyman although many suspect it's just a matter of time before he has not much of an argument.

candyslim wrote: ↑24 Jul 2021, 05:27

Evander wrote: ↑24 Jul 2021, 04:49

candyslim wrote: ↑24 Jul 2021, 04:38 World championship belts or a set of postage stamps. If you're a serious collector you want to complete the set. Of course Canelo would want to fight Plant. That wraps up Super-middleweight nicely. Job done. On to the next project.

What's the next project ?
Who is his biggest threat in a one off ?

I'd say the logical next step is an assault on the light-heavyweight division. People will have differing ideas about who is Canelo's biggest threat at that weight. I'd say probably Beterbiev provided the inevitable march of time hasn't caught up with him.

Would Canelo be criticised if he chooses to permanently remain at 168lbs, rather than making the jump to 175lbs, considering he initially campaigned at 140lbs and then gained success at world level as a 154lb-er?

Without mentioning any names, other fighters have persistently boasted about being capable of beating the very best from 154lbs to 175lbs (while also claiming to dominate world-level cruiserweights in sparring), but constantly refused to compete outside of their 160lbs comfort zone.

It’s rather interesting to see people demanding to see Canelo make the jump to 175lbs.

Fans don’t expect other fighters to change weight classes.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑26 Jul 2021, 05:02

candyslim wrote: ↑24 Jul 2021, 05:27

Evander wrote: ↑24 Jul 2021, 04:49
What's the next project ?
Who is his biggest threat in a one off ?

I'd say the logical next step is an assault on the light-heavyweight division. People will have differing ideas about who is Canelo's biggest threat at that weight. I'd say probably Beterbiev provided the inevitable march of time hasn't caught up with him.

Would Canelo be criticised if he chooses to permanently remain at 168lbs, rather than making the jump to 175lbs, considering he initially campaigned at 140lbs and then gained success at world level as a 154lb-er?

Without mentioning any names, other fighters have persistently boasted about being capable of beating the very best from 154lbs to 175lbs (while also claiming to dominate world-level cruiserweights in sparring), but constantly refused to compete outside of their 160lbs comfort zone.

It’s rather interesting to see people demanding to see Canelo make the jump to 175lbs.

Fans don’t expect other fighters to change weight classes.

If he fights good fights at 168 people wont hate it, but he will run out of them very quick. Canelo is huge now anyway, so its 168 or 175. Canelos Grown through the weight classes too, its not like he is actualy giving away significant weight, its just he started very very young, and did allegedly like mexican beef.

He is a P4P 1, taking mabey the best fights of anyone, but the higher you are the higher standard your held to... 25 million+ a fight so if you want the big bucks you kinda gotta take the big fights. If he was a 1 million dollar fighter he wouldent have the same pressure.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑26 Jul 2021, 05:02

candyslim wrote: ↑24 Jul 2021, 05:27

Evander wrote: ↑24 Jul 2021, 04:49
What's the next project ?
Who is his biggest threat in a one off ?

I'd say the logical next step is an assault on the light-heavyweight division. People will have differing ideas about who is Canelo's biggest threat at that weight. I'd say probably Beterbiev provided the inevitable march of time hasn't caught up with him.

Would Canelo be criticised if he chooses to permanently remain at 168lbs, rather than making the jump to 175lbs, considering he initially campaigned at 140lbs and then gained success at world level as a 154lb-er?

Without mentioning any names, other fighters have persistently boasted about being capable of beating the very best from 154lbs to 175lbs (while also claiming to dominate world-level cruiserweights in sparring), but constantly refused to compete outside of their 160lbs comfort zone.

It’s rather interesting to see people demanding to see Canelo make the jump to 175lbs.

Fans don’t expect other fighters to change weight classes.

I think he would be criticised but that's not to say such criticism would be fair.

With exceptional talent comes exceptional expectation.

candyslim wrote: ↑26 Jul 2021, 06:23

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑26 Jul 2021, 05:02

candyslim wrote: ↑24 Jul 2021, 05:27

I'd say the logical next step is an assault on the light-heavyweight division. People will have differing ideas about who is Canelo's biggest threat at that weight. I'd say probably Beterbiev provided the inevitable march of time hasn't caught up with him.

Would Canelo be criticised if he chooses to permanently remain at 168lbs, rather than making the jump to 175lbs, considering he initially campaigned at 140lbs and then gained success at world level as a 154lb-er?

Without mentioning any names, other fighters have persistently boasted about being capable of beating the very best from 154lbs to 175lbs (while also claiming to dominate world-level cruiserweights in sparring), but constantly refused to compete outside of their 160lbs comfort zone.

It’s rather interesting to see people demanding to see Canelo make the jump to 175lbs.

Fans don’t expect other fighters to change weight classes.

I think he would be criticised but that's not to say such criticism would be fair.

With exceptional talent comes exceptional expectation.

I agree to a certain extent.

The problem I have relates to when expectations are met as opposed to exceeded.

If Canelo beats Bivol and Beterbiev (based on their current form, this is very likely), then what next?

Are people going to start demanding that Canelo makes the jump to cruiserweight in order to face Mairis Briedis? Where do we draw the line?

If Canelo’s big-name 160lbs & 168lbs rivals stopped ducking each other, their reputations would grow. And there’d be no need for Canelo to keep jumping weight classes in order to engage in meaningful bouts.

And that’s the thing that frustrates me most, Canelo is being criticised, but the actual culprits (the Mexican’s risk averse rivals) are constantly being given free passes by fight fans, even though they're blatantly ducking each other! They aren't interested in EARNING the right to fight the Mexican superstar.

And I’m not even sure if Canelo’s status in the sport is responsible for fight fans’ ridiculously unrealistic expectations.

Except for Floyd Mayweather Jr., fight fans haven’t aggressively demanded previously pound-for-pound number one’s to keep making jumps to higher weight classes.

I wouldn't take too much notice of the criticism I don't suppose Canelo is concerned about it. It speaks volumes that no middleweight or super- middleweight is currently regarded as a serious threat to him.

I imagine Canelo feels confident of mixing it with the light-heavyweights and sees that as part of his progression toward boxing immortality. Whether that confidence is well-founded remains to be seen but it's that uncertainty that keeps the fans excited.

I doubt that him sticking to his natural weight class is going to generate the same level of interest. Unfair? Yes maybe so.

candyslim wrote: ↑26 Jul 2021, 05:00 I think Jermaine Franklin might take great exception to being described as a journeyman although many suspect it's just a matter of time before he has not much of an argument.

A handful of guys have been mentioned as possible opponent for Whyte.
Benavidez echoed my thoughts on the fight for which I was mocked. It is on BS.com

Plant is a plant, easy pickings.

The thing about the weight hopping 175lbs situation is it all comes down to money.
How much money do Bertebiev or Bivol bring to the table . Not much. Or to be more precise not a significant amount more than staying at 168 will yield. Don’t forget it’s not Canelo making all the decisions; there’s a financial juggernaut behind him too,

Now, say just for example, Calzaghe , Jones Jnr, Hopkins (or whoever) were there. They’d bring a worthwhile yield for risk v reward .

Why go to 175 to fight Bertebiev for the same (ish) money you’d make at 168. More importantly, if you were the business juggernaut behind Canelo, making money out of him, why would you send him there for a few dollars more

It doesn't matter tbh. Canelo is gonna fight Plant bc Plant has a belt. Anyway, let's see if fight is done deal.

The thing about Garcia vs Prograis is that they wanted to fight on the same date as Canelo. Hearn talked only for an instant about the possibility of it being a doubleheader, but I think that was dependent on it being on DAZN. Therefore it probably won't happen but that would be good wouldn't it?