Usyk is ATG (is there any doubt anymore?)

[Lenny Cravats]

Valuev and Fury are very different. For starters, Valuev never gets to win any title if he has remotely competent judges for either the Larry Donald or John Ruiz fights. Valuev also managed to make a very old and very shot Evander Holyfield appear young and vibrant again as one of his last acts in the sport. Fury might have struggled with Steve Cunningham, but he won that fight legitimately along with every other win he's had.

I've just heard John McDermott shout 'bollocks!'

[Bard of Boxrec]

Where does Usyk rank in all time heavyweight rankings?

It's all business and randomness. Usyk has a relatively weak chin. He was one good referee decision away to lose the title to Dubois in a great upset + struggles heavily against big punchers that's why we'll never see him fight a guy like wilder.

I'm not trying to be anti Usyk but boxing isn't a sport it's a business exactly like wrestling except more fights are shoot so judging fighters of the resume is stupid and all time rankings conversation are even stupider.

You seem to be unaware what ‘weak chin’ means.

[Bard of Boxrec]

Usyk deserves a place in the top 5 HWs IMO after what he’s done. Incredible engine, great ring smarts, speed, variety, supreme toughness, ability to take away his opponent’s weapons, he’s got everything. Cleaning out the division and having nothing more to prove - after coming up in weight from a stellar CW run too.

No one has talked about Usyk/Lewis which I think Usyk would have won relatively comfortably. I’m a big Lennox fan but he had an almost plodding style later in his career, a little flat footed for an UTG, and Usyk would have outworked and outfoxed him at every stage. I think he would have beaten Bowe too.

Usyk/Holyfield or Usyk/Ibeabuchi would have been amazing, Usyk/prime Mike even better.

He’s also got something people don’t often talk about, a lack of padding on his record, meaning he’s condensed some amazing achievements into relatively few fights.

Some people used to talk about Wlad’s greatness in terms of consistent success on the bum of the month tour, but it doesn’t count for much in my book. By the same token some might ask for more fights from Usyk before they ‘know’ but why? What will that do for his legacy?

Usyk is how greatness is done, and Usyk is basically an inverse Wlad in almost every way.

[Cent0089]

Top 5 heavy of all time and top 10 p4p of ll time for me

[tonyevs]

Usyk hasn't looked looked like losing this far. Yes he can give away early rounds, and whether that is to work an opponent out or tire them out, he always moves up a gear to win.

Ali had quite a few very close fights and losses even in his peak years; same with Lennox.
Usyk hasn't shown that vulnerability.. yet

[joshj909]

I'm tempted to list the consensus top 10-15 heavyweights of all time and list their top wins including whether their opponents were in their prime. I think most will see that Usyk is in a good spot in the top 10 but probably not right at the top of the tree. Will take a long time though

[tonyevs]

The point is Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield and Lennox all lost to opponents or were fortunate to get decisions whilst in their peak years.

For example, you could say Ali struggled against quick heavyweights, or Lennox Lewis was susceptible to big punchers.

Usyk has faced all types at cruiserweight .. and he faced two of the recognised best guys in the heavyweight division as the sizeable underdog and never looked close to losing. So its hard to say any of those before him had a style to beat him because we haven`t yet seen a style that Usyk cannot adapt to and get the win over.

Usyk is pure class inside the ring and out.

[Tony1244]

No doubt. Dude snuck up on me. Probably a top 10, if not top 5 HW GOAT.

[joshj909]

I'm tempted to list the consensus top 10-15 heavyweights of all time and list their top wins including whether their opponents were in their prime. I think most will see that Usyk is in a good spot in the top 10 but probably not right at the top of the tree. Will take a long time though

I guess I can ask, how many top heavyweights in history have more and/or better decisive wins than Usyk's over Joshua, Fury and Dubois?

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Furys standing in history is definitely diminished

These losses and wilder looking like crap took the shine off those 2 wilder wins for sure

Down against an mma fighter
Life and death with wallin

He got cut badly against Wallin, but won the fight handily other than having a bad cut throughout the bout. The performance against Ngannou definitely is a weak showing no question with that.

I might be misremembering wallin fair play

[gilgamesh]

This may be one for the historians, and I know a lot of this is owed to the less hectic schedules, and improvements in Sports Science and all that jazz, but how many P4P greats have gotten their best win after the age of 37 in Boxing history? Surely that's a short list.

Even in the modern era 37 is not anybody's prime. Some are good enough that they haven't lost much by that age, but it's probably not the best they've ever been. Although there are exceptions to that rule, and Usyk may well be one of 'em.

[Cojimar 1946]

Usyk deserves a place in the top 5 HWs IMO after what he’s done. Incredible engine, great ring smarts, speed, variety, supreme toughness, ability to take away his opponent’s weapons, he’s got everything. Cleaning out the division and having nothing more to prove - after coming up in weight from a stellar CW run too.

No one has talked about Usyk/Lewis which I think Usyk would have won relatively comfortably. I’m a big Lennox fan but he had an almost plodding style later in his career, a little flat footed for an UTG, and Usyk would have outworked and outfoxed him at every stage. I think he would have beaten Bowe too.

Usyk/Holyfield or Usyk/Ibeabuchi would have been amazing, Usyk/prime Mike even better.

He’s also got something people don’t often talk about, a lack of padding on his record, meaning he’s condensed some amazing achievements into relatively few fights.

Some people used to talk about Wlad’s greatness in terms of consistent success on the bum of the month tour, but it doesn’t count for much in my book. By the same token some might ask for more fights from Usyk before they ‘know’ but why? What will that do for his legacy?

Usyk is how greatness is done, and Usyk is basically an inverse Wlad in almost every way.

Usyks heavyweight opponents have extremely thin resumes to the point where they can't be considered greats. They haven't proven themselves far beyond Wlad's opposition.

[SeanBrennan]

you can only beat who is there, he has unified fully 2 divisions, ATG for me.

[Bard of Boxrec]

Usyk deserves a place in the top 5 HWs IMO after what he’s done. Incredible engine, great ring smarts, speed, variety, supreme toughness, ability to take away his opponent’s weapons, he’s got everything. Cleaning out the division and having nothing more to prove - after coming up in weight from a stellar CW run too.

No one has talked about Usyk/Lewis which I think Usyk would have won relatively comfortably. I’m a big Lennox fan but he had an almost plodding style later in his career, a little flat footed for an UTG, and Usyk would have outworked and outfoxed him at every stage. I think he would have beaten Bowe too.

Usyk/Holyfield or Usyk/Ibeabuchi would have been amazing, Usyk/prime Mike even better.

He’s also got something people don’t often talk about, a lack of padding on his record, meaning he’s condensed some amazing achievements into relatively few fights.

Some people used to talk about Wlad’s greatness in terms of consistent success on the bum of the month tour, but it doesn’t count for much in my book. By the same token some might ask for more fights from Usyk before they ‘know’ but why? What will that do for his legacy?

Usyk is how greatness is done, and Usyk is basically an inverse Wlad in almost every way.

Usyks heavyweight opponents have extremely thin resumes to the point where they can't be considered greats. They haven't proven themselves far beyond Wlad's opposition.

[gilgamesh]

Usyk deserves a place in the top 5 HWs IMO after what he’s done. Incredible engine, great ring smarts, speed, variety, supreme toughness, ability to take away his opponent’s weapons, he’s got everything. Cleaning out the division and having nothing more to prove - after coming up in weight from a stellar CW run too.

No one has talked about Usyk/Lewis which I think Usyk would have won relatively comfortably. I’m a big Lennox fan but he had an almost plodding style later in his career, a little flat footed for an UTG, and Usyk would have outworked and outfoxed him at every stage. I think he would have beaten Bowe too.

Usyk/Holyfield or Usyk/Ibeabuchi would have been amazing, Usyk/prime Mike even better.

He’s also got something people don’t often talk about, a lack of padding on his record, meaning he’s condensed some amazing achievements into relatively few fights.

Some people used to talk about Wlad’s greatness in terms of consistent success on the bum of the month tour, but it doesn’t count for much in my book. By the same token some might ask for more fights from Usyk before they ‘know’ but why? What will that do for his legacy?

Usyk is how greatness is done, and Usyk is basically an inverse Wlad in almost every way.

Usyks heavyweight opponents have extremely thin resumes to the point where they can't be considered greats. They haven't proven themselves far beyond Wlad's opposition.

2 of the guys Usyk has beaten have defeated Wlad straight up though

[margaret thatcher]

when you have beat at least 2 guys better than anyone another guy has beat, its very hard not to have the superior record. depth of lower tier guys only goes so far. although i know some people, like ambling alp, place more stock in how many '10 round fighters' of D/C grade quality someone beat, hence his reason for ranking james toney over usyk

simple question then

whose cruiser career ranks higher, usyk's or toney?

straight up answer bruh

I rank Toney a little higher. Don't know how much clearer I can be.

and even dan dubois is getting to a point where he outranks most of wlads defences tbh

at least wlad - usyk is more of an argument than usyk-vitali though.

[Cojimar 1946]

Usyk deserves a place in the top 5 HWs IMO after what he’s done. Incredible engine, great ring smarts, speed, variety, supreme toughness, ability to take away his opponent’s weapons, he’s got everything. Cleaning out the division and having nothing more to prove - after coming up in weight from a stellar CW run too.

No one has talked about Usyk/Lewis which I think Usyk would have won relatively comfortably. I’m a big Lennox fan but he had an almost plodding style later in his career, a little flat footed for an UTG, and Usyk would have outworked and outfoxed him at every stage. I think he would have beaten Bowe too.

Usyk/Holyfield or Usyk/Ibeabuchi would have been amazing, Usyk/prime Mike even better.

He’s also got something people don’t often talk about, a lack of padding on his record, meaning he’s condensed some amazing achievements into relatively few fights.

Some people used to talk about Wlad’s greatness in terms of consistent success on the bum of the month tour, but it doesn’t count for much in my book. By the same token some might ask for more fights from Usyk before they ‘know’ but why? What will that do for his legacy?

Usyk is how greatness is done, and Usyk is basically an inverse Wlad in almost every way.

Usyks heavyweight opponents have extremely thin resumes to the point where they can't be considered greats. They haven't proven themselves far beyond Wlad's opposition.

2 of the guys Usyk has beaten have defeated Wlad straight up though

Not a prime Wlad so silly argument. He also lost to Andy Ruiz and Dubois. Fury was lucky not be stopped vs wallin and Wilder. Fury and Joshua ducked too many of their contemporaries to be considered greats.

Fury only beat 3 guys ranked in the top 10 by ring magazine that's pitiful