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Posted: 16 Jun 2005, 08:03
by jamesmcdonnell
search wrote:Hatton vs Tszyu was one of the dirtiest fights of all time. Hatton held and hit numerous times. He was bull rushing head first butting tszyu at ALL times. Throwing the shoulder, elbows, intensional headbutts, intentional low blows. Hatton did everything but take Tszyu down. Is this the only way he can beat Tszyu?

To his credit, Tszyu never CALLED IT but hatton was ridiculous. Hatton did what he had to do but one wonders about his innapriopriate communications with the referee. If you wat in round 3 and round 9 Hatton is seen looking at the ref to break them and nodding.

And tszyu's low blows were hardly low blows. Tszyu fought as cleanly as he could.

You would have to be blind not to see the illegal shit Hatton was doing and getting away with. Disgusting.

When they were BOXING, Tszyu was owning Hatton. On the outside Hatton was getting owned but he was coming in head first fighting illegally most of the time. He wouldn't get away with that shit in the good ol USA.

Hatton should have been deducted for the intentional low blow. he should have been counted for that beltline low blow. Tszyu should have been up on the cards.


Hatton did what he had to do to win, but he did it illegally.

And to your question, what has witter done to "EARN" a shot at Hatton? BRITISH, EURPOEAN AND COMMONWEALTH TITLES
Talk about hyperbole, you are talking out of your arse. It was a rough and tumble fight, but I have seen many dirtier fights.

You make it sound like Tszyu lost because Hatton cheated, he lost because he ran out of steam from Hatton's inside work. Yes there was a lot of holding and wrestling, but Hatton was working on the inside too.

When they were boxing, it was because Tszyu was able to throw enough shots to deter Hatton from steamrollering him, it wasn't because of some incredible tactics from Tszyu, he did was he always does, times his opponents with big shots if they try to rush him. It worked for a few rounds and Tszyu looked on his way to winning the fight. Hatton just kept on coming forward and rushing Tszyu though and eventually Tszyu ran out of gas and couldn't maintain the workrate neccessary to stop Hatton closing the gap.

Tszyu took a big risk in fighting Hatton in Manchester, but he was gambling on the fact he would be able to hurt him, the reason he lost was Hatton took his best shots and kept on coming.

I agree to a degree about the body shots. The first from Tszyu was borderline, and it should perhaps have been a count, depends on whether the ref instructed them if the beltline was ok, which depends on how high the shorts are worn usually. Bear in mind though, it's not easy to tell just how low a shot is in the heat of the action. The ref doesn't have the benefit of slow-mo replay, and if a shot looks suspect and someone goes down wincing, it's generally going to be given as a low-blow.

I guess you've also forgotten that Tszyu hit him twice in the nuts just before Hatton retaliated, and Tszyu also threw Hatton to the canvas at one point. Tszyu is a veteran and knows plenty of tricks of his own, he's a pretty dirty fighter himself, but he wasn't able to play those tricks against Hatton. Tszyu's first fight with Harris was foul filled, as was his fight

It was perfectly acceptable to warn Hatton for the low blow, it's very very unusual to deduct a point for just a single deliberate low blow. Usually a fighter will receive a couple of verbal warnings first.

It's clear from your comments you have little or no respect for Hatton or what he has achieved, I don't know what axe it is you have to grind, but you're clearly a sad bitter individual whose life is a gaping chasm, a lone voice pissing in the wind who cannot even be happy for one of the nice guys of boxing who has brought home the bacon against one of the best fighters in the world.

Personally, I'm proud that Hatton achieved what I thought he couldn't, and I'd be happy to see him face Witter somewhere down the line. However, like it or not mate, boxing is a business, and promoters are businessmen.

With regard to whether Hatton is avoiding Witter, I would say Hatton is now looking beyond Witter, but I think there was a time when he would have been happy to face him. I think it's likely that Warren wasn't too keen on putting that fight together, especially after all the talk from Witter and the acrimonious words between Ingle and Warren regarding Witter.

If Wittter makes a name for himself, which is very much possible given Hennessy's upcoming ITV coverage, and gets nimself into contention, I can see the fight happening, but right now Hatton has so many other options, and fighters are literally beating a path to fight him.

Corralles, Harris, Gatti, Mayweather, all of them are willing to come to Manchester, and you know why, because they see a lot of money. Of course, they aren't the ones with the bargaining chips now, so they may not get what they would have expected, and that's the only stumbling block I can see.

Posted: 16 Jun 2005, 08:05
by jamesmcdonnell
search wrote:
J wrote:boo hoo :lol: :lol: :lol:

r.hatotn ibf linear champ of the world.

division ranked number one! :TU:
Who ranks him number 1? He beat an old Tszyu who had fought 3 rounds in 2 years and he used illegal tactics. Lets see him come to the USA and beat Cotto/Harris/Mayweather.

People who aren't from ENGLAND dont rate him near number 1.
Everyone has Hatton at #1, all the Amercian journalists I speak with rank him as the top dog now, and all gave him credit for winning the fight.

Posted: 16 Jun 2005, 08:34
by MightyWarrior
search wrote: Hatton OUTHEARTED Tszyu, but he did it illegally and did thingsa that would never be allowed in a USA ring. Put it this way, if Jay Nady was ref, Tszyu would still be champion.
Very true - Nady would've probably waved it over in Tszyu's favour before the opening bell.

Anyway, your sad story of the hard done by Kostya has left me with tears in my eyes - much like Kostya in the 9th round.

Just so you don't feel too bad I want you to know - this IS the world's smallest violin, and yes, it's playing just for you.....

Image

Posted: 16 Jun 2005, 08:55
by kevin
Interesting to see the current betting for Sports Personality of the year.

Ellen McArthur 10/11
Ricky Hatton 3/1
Paula Radcliffe 3/1
Steven Gerrard 12/1
Andrew Flintoff 14/1
Tim Henman 16/1
Amir Khan 25/1

I guess if Henman wins Wimbledon :oops: or Flintoff does well in the Ashes their odds will come down, but Radcliffe 3/1 why?

Posted: 16 Jun 2005, 09:27
by knockout
Kevin wrote: but Radcliffe 3/1 why?
did you see her piss at london :TU:

Posted: 16 Jun 2005, 09:28
by J
id like to thank the gentlemen above for being far more eloquent in putitng together responses that my temper is far to short to allow me to compose.

gentlemen i salute you :TU:

Posted: 16 Jun 2005, 09:45
by J
i think you will actually find tou told me to shut the fornicate up first mate. :roll:

actually quoting my post so it must have been directed at me.

hence my retort.

however neough of this childishness.

lets put that aside if you are willing to be sensible and not resort to name calling etc for no good reason ill happily discuss the merits of hatotn and witter with you ok?

Posted: 16 Jun 2005, 09:48
by coneye
First of all credit where its due Hatton won and he did what he had to do to win , he done his homework and stuck to the plan, good on him

But and I say this without trying to take anything away from Hatton if that fight was anywhere else in the world without an English ref , HATTON WOULD OFF LOST , he was holding wrestling and illigally using the head way to much a ref such has Jay or Steele would off done there job and warned him , they would off took a point for the low blow and it was low and deliberate Zoo's were not low they were on the belt offf high trunks

Posted: 16 Jun 2005, 09:53
by J
search wrote:My other point was when the biased little man J said, "Witter hasn't earned the right to fight Hatton".

This is a man who is the British, commonwealth and European champion and Hattons biggest domestic rival and to this is such biased garbage that I had to respond.
i refer you to previous posts on this subject i cant be arsed ogiong over it agian.

needless to say that at this juncture Witter hasnt got a prayer of getting a shit at hatton while he can command big purses agianst p4p-ers such as corralas FM.

why the hell would he want to match himself with witter in a high risk little reward fight?

nothing biased about that, its just a fact.

and if i am biased towards ricky its because yes I am a fan ive been to 5 of his major fights, including Zoo's and ive also sat here listening to people decry and slate the lad for no good reason for the past 18 months.

sometimes most venomously.

but he proved those people wrong and i was there to see it.

if that means im biased fornicate it sue me. :lol:

Posted: 16 Jun 2005, 09:54
by J
search wrote:
J wrote:i think you will actually find tou told me to shut the fornicate up first mate. :roll:

actually quoting my post so it must have been directed at me.

hence my retort.

however neough of this childishness.

lets put that aside if you are willing to be sensible and not resort to name calling etc for no good reason ill happily discuss the merits of hatotn and witter with you ok?
fornicate off
well done., your blatantly a class act.
what a mug.

Posted: 16 Jun 2005, 10:03
by J
my response should be of course fornicate OFF.

but ill refrain, oh i didnt never mind. :lol:

I dont agree that beating lovemore ndou should get get you a crack at the title, i also think ricky was fortunate in getting a crack as Zoo.

But to expect him to take on someone who has been bad mouthing him for the latter part of his career when he has stellar match ups in the pipeline is somehwat far fetched in my view.


its just an opinion dont go pulling a muscle. :lol:

Posted: 16 Jun 2005, 10:38
by KO Artist
J wrote:my response should be of course fornicate OFF.

but ill refrain, oh i didnt never mind. :lol:

I dont agree that beating lovemore ndou should get get you a crack at the title, i also think ricky was fortunate in getting a crack as Zoo.

But to expect him to take on someone who has been bad mouthing him for the latter part of his career when he has stellar match ups in the pipeline is somehwat far fetched in my view.


its just an opinion dont go pulling a muscle. :lol:
Ricky got a crack at Zoo because he has a good manager and promoter in allegedly and has been well marketed

I dont think Witter deserves a crack by beating 15 stiffs then NDou in a close fight.

What does Witter bring to the table?

How Many tickets does he sell? None.

It would make a good domestic fight, but Hatton has better and bigger fish to fry than Witter.

Hatton's beaten the no 1 man. He didnt run like a thief, he outfought the no 1 man.

Hatton has nothing to prove by fighting Witter.

Let Witter pick up one of the other titles, and if the true Champ (Hatton) fancies picking up a title then fight Witter for it.

Otherwise Witter brings NOTHING to the table.

I'm looking forward to Hatton - Mayweather, Hatton - Harris,

not Hatton - Witter, thats going backwards.

Posted: 16 Jun 2005, 10:40
by chief
If beating N’Dou entitled Witter to anything, it would’ve been a shot at Gatti, not Hatton...

Posted: 16 Jun 2005, 10:42
by J
glad im not the only one who is so "biased" :roll: :TU:

Posted: 16 Jun 2005, 10:52
by liamlion
KO Atrist wrote: Otherwise Witter brings NOTHING to the table.
You conveniently didnt mention that Witter is the European Champion and is also the rebuttal to the statement that Hatton is the best in Britain.

Hatton battered Kosta Tszyu, but can Hatton seriously walk around and say he has proved to be the best light-welterweight in Britain?

Hatton doesnt become the best light-welterweight in Britain because his beat Kosta Tszyu. To prove who is the best in your own backyard means having to fight your rivals, to say Witter is small fry and that Hatton has moved on, in my opinion leaves a big shadow hanging over Hatton.

Posted: 16 Jun 2005, 10:54
by J
Thats fair and resonable comment liam

let hope they both get to unify two titles at some point.

that would be 8ce :TU:

Posted: 16 Jun 2005, 11:23
by chief
Don't forget the Commonwealth belt...

Tszyu, Gatti, Harris and Hatton are all eligible for that one...

If they really gave a sh!t. :wink:

Posted: 16 Jun 2005, 11:58
by jamesmcdonnell
liamlion wrote:
KO Atrist wrote: Otherwise Witter brings NOTHING to the table.
You conveniently didnt mention that Witter is the European Champion and is also the rebuttal to the statement that Hatton is the best in Britain.

Hatton battered Kosta Tszyu, but can Hatton seriously walk around and say he has proved to be the best light-welterweight in Britain?

Hatton doesnt become the best light-welterweight in Britain because his beat Kosta Tszyu. To prove who is the best in your own backyard means having to fight your rivals, to say Witter is small fry and that Hatton has moved on, in my opinion leaves a big shadow hanging over Hatton.
If Hatton didn't have a big IBF belt then European and British honours might be more interesting. Conceivably Witter can get a #1 spot with the IBF, though I suspect there may be some contentious voices arguing against his rankings going so high.

If Hatton has beaten Tszyu, I don't see Witter as any kind of a shadow, especially if he goes on to fight Gatti, Harris and Mayweather....I've nothing against Witter, and I hope he gets a title belt one day, but Hatton simply doesn't prove much by beating Witter.

Posted: 16 Jun 2005, 12:02
by liamlion
chief wrote:Don't forget the Commonwealth belt...

Tszyu, Gatti, Harris and Hatton are all eligible for that one...

If they really gave a sh!t. :wink:
You're right why would the likes of Gatti, Harris and Hatton be interested in such titles when they have such powerful promoters that they can either buy a title shot (ie Ricky Hatton) or can be given what is essentially an interim title (ie Gatti and Harris) without having to fight the proper champion.

I cant critise Hatton as he is the only genuine (linear) light-welterweight champion - though he did fight behind the WBU title for a long time, which afforded him little risk. Least the European title will throw up a proper challenge once in a while.

Posted: 16 Jun 2005, 12:03
by jamesmcdonnell
Yes, but the quality of a lot of the operators at European level these days isn't what it once was.

Posted: 16 Jun 2005, 12:11
by liamlion
jamesmcdonnell wrote:...but Hatton simply doesn't prove much by beating Witter.
Isnt it slightly paradoxical that Hatton can lay claim to being the number 1 light-welterweight in the World, yet it is not even proven that he is the best light-welterweight in Britain?

A fight between Witter and Hatton would prove who is Britain's number 1 at light-welterweight. Personally I think the result would mean a lot. Not to mention that I also think the fight would be a great spectacle and a cracking dust-up.
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yes, but the quality of a lot of the operators at European level these days isn't what it once was.
Hence why I said that the European title throws up a proper challenge once in a while.

Posted: 16 Jun 2005, 12:28
by jamesmcdonnell
One of the problems Liam, is that in the current climate, domestic dust-ups just aren't as

Back when Bruno fought Bugner, I think they got 40,000 people, that's inconceivable now, the fight was on Terrestrial TV that's why.

No offence to Junior, but he could walk stark bollock naked down Oxford Street with a peakcock feather stuck up his arse, and nobody would know he was. Even Hatton is far from being a household name.

Hence domestic clashes tend to only happen between fighters that aren't expected to go on to prosper at world level, or who aren't ticket sellers. Imagine if Hatton had lost to Witter, there would have been no guarantee Witter would even have got a title shot, because he isn't a major draw, and Hatton would have been consigned to the also rans category.

If the fight happens when Witter is a title holder, then it would be a great matchup, and I hope that is what happens.

Posted: 17 Jun 2005, 03:57
by bigynzing
Alot of people have slagged off Hatton for fighting past it names, hand picked opponents....but if you compare the last 10 fights of both Hatton and Witter.....No contest....like people have said hatton has bigger fish to try n fry...Witter hasnt earnd his crack at the top dog yet....

Posted: 17 Jun 2005, 03:58
by bigynzing
search wrote:
J wrote:i think you will actually find tou told me to shut the fornicate up first mate. :roll:

actually quoting my post so it must have been directed at me.

hence my retort.

however neough of this childishness.

lets put that aside if you are willing to be sensible and not resort to name calling etc for no good reason ill happily discuss the merits of hatotn and witter with you ok?
fornicate off

Ignorant pudendum.

Posted: 17 Jun 2005, 06:06
by liamlion
bigynzing wrote:Alot of people have slagged off Hatton for fighting past it names, hand picked opponents....but if you compare the last 10 fights of both Hatton and Witter.....No contest....like people have said hatton has bigger fish to try n fry...Witter hasnt earnd his crack at the top dog yet....
What????? Hatton's promoter buy's his fighter a title shot and then you have the cheek to question Witter's legitimacy as a contender.

Its fookin double standards. The reason Hatton hasnt fought Witter isnt because Witter hasnt "earnt" his shot, I think you'll find its a lttle more synical. ie Hatton's promoter thinks Witter has a chance of winning, and whereas if Hatton loses to a foreign name such as Corrales or Gatti (etc) Hatton could still be USED as a money making instrument, selling out the MEN fighting blown up lightweights and fighters past their best with the claim that he is still Britain's finest. A defeat to Witter on the other hand would see Hatton marked "damaged goods", not just state side but also domestically and ultimately to the detriment of his promoter's pocket.