BoxRec

Kessler showed Joe way more than Mitchell and Reid. I can't believe there is any debate here. Kessler brought more, and Joe responded with way more.

Fair play Pundit. I would tend to agree

For me Hopkins, Woods (think Clinton deserves the payday and he's a Brit) and being greedy a farewell KO against Roy Jones

Pundit - as a matter of interest do you think anyone at 168/175 can beat Calzaghe right now??

Taki... wrote:

stujones wrote:The ONLY reason why Reid was so competitive vs Joe was cause of Joe's lack of preperation. Had Woodhall, Brewer, Kessler, Lacy fought that version of Joe - then Joe would have lost definately.

Kessler gave the most prepaed version of Calzaghe his closest fight.

That is beside the point. Calzaghe has looked like losing twice in his career and neither time was against Kessler. It's specualtion, pure and simple, to say this fighter or that fighter would have been Calzaghe that night. The fact remains that Reid pushed him harder than Kessler did and Mitchell hurt him more than Kessler did. As I said, Kessler might be the best opponent he ever fought, but on their nights Reid and Mitchell were more dangerous.

To me, the Mitchell knockdown doesn't mean much and is blown way out of proportion. It didn't really hurt Calzaghe, and it happened only because Calzaghe got careless for a moment against a fighter he otherwise totally dominated. The bottom line is that Mitchell was far too slow and stiff to be competitive with JC.

Against Kessler, Calzaghe couldn't and didn't afford a similar slip in focus. Still, Kessler hit him with many more hard shots than any other opponent in Calzaghe's career. Had Calzaghe gotten careless as he did against Mitchell, he would have waved bye-bye to his belts.

Wrists wrote:Fair play Pundit. I would tend to agree

For me Hopkins, Woods (think Clinton deserves the payday and he's a Brit) and being greedy a farewell KO against Roy Jones

RJJ would be too much of milking for me. Beating up corpses is tasteless.

Pundit - as a matter of interest do you think anyone at 168/175 can beat Calzaghe right now??

At 168, the best chance has Kessler in a refight in Copenhagen (maybe 40-60). Mundine when he is fit could also be dangerous -- his style is similar to Reid's and he is very fast -- but who knows whether Mundine can ever return to his former strength. Currenlty this is a no-topic.

At 175, a fast defensive boxer like Chad Dawson may have the best chance. Still I'd favor JC, mostly on experience.

pundit wrote:

Taki... wrote:

stujones wrote:The ONLY reason why Reid was so competitive vs Joe was cause of Joe's lack of preperation. Had Woodhall, Brewer, Kessler, Lacy fought that version of Joe - then Joe would have lost definately.

Kessler gave the most prepaed version of Calzaghe his closest fight.

That is beside the point. Calzaghe has looked like losing twice in his career and neither time was against Kessler. It's specualtion, pure and simple, to say this fighter or that fighter would have been Calzaghe that night. The fact remains that Reid pushed him harder than Kessler did and Mitchell hurt him more than Kessler did. As I said, Kessler might be the best opponent he ever fought, but on their nights Reid and Mitchell were more dangerous.

To me, the Mitchell knockdown doesn't mean much and is blown way out of proportion. It didn't really hurt Calzaghe, and it happened only because Calzaghe got careless for a moment against a fighter he otherwise totally dominated. The bottom line is that Mitchell was far too slow and stiff to be competitive with JC.

Against Kessler, Calzaghe couldn't and didn't afford a similar slip in focus. Still, Kessler hit him with many more hard shots than any other opponent in Calzaghe's career. Had Calzaghe gotten careless as he did against Mitchell, he would have waved bye-bye to his belts.

Calzaghe was badly hurt against Mitchell, just watch the fight again if you don't think so. It wasn't a flash KD or anything to do with balance, Calzaghe was seriously shaken. If Mitchell had of taken a more studied approach to trying to finish Calzaghe off rather than rushing in all guns blazing he might well have won the fight.
In the Kessler fight Calzaghe was caught with two flush uppercuts, that was a 'similar slip in concentration'! You seem to be trying to make a point that isn't there. Kessler hit Calzaghe with flush power punches and didn't score a KD, or come close to scoring one. Mitchell on the other hand did. Calzaghe has always been 'careless' with his defence, especially on the inside.

Autobarn wrote:Kessler showed Joe way more than Mitchell and Reid. I can't believe there is any debate here. Kessler brought more, and Joe responded with way more.

Damn, that sounds like someone trying to do a "tasteful arty gay porn" reading. "Mikkel took Joe to previously undreamt-of heights, and Joe responded like the quivering hunk of lustful Italo-Welsh manhood which he is...In his youthful exuberance, Mikkel was already limp and completely spent when the Italian-Welsh stallion finally turned on the full spigot and unloaded gout after gout of molten fistic fury on him..."

Wrists wrote:For me Hopkins, Woods (think Clinton deserves the payday and he's a Brit) and being greedy a farewell KO against Roy Jones

So now not only is JC a Sugar-Ray-Robinson-esque ATG, but an impresario of the spectacular KO of high-level opposition? Let's see ... one KO in his last 5 fights, over a "B"-level fighter ... OK, whatever you say ...

Eubank would have beaten Kessler easier than Calzaghe did, see Watson 1 (first 6 rounds atleast) and Rocchigiani

The Kessler love is never ending. This is like the BS about Judah after he lost to Mayweather 'Judah would have beaten any other welterweight that night'... he promptly loses to Cotto...
Kessler's a good fighter, but making out that Cazlaghe was somehow less of a fighter when he fought Reid or Mitchell seems a touch convenient. People should face the fact, and fact it is, that Calzaghe was much closer to losing his 0 against those two men that against Kessler. And despite what anyone says Calzaghe isn't better at 35 than he was at 32, or 30, or 28.

Taki... wrote:The Kessler love is never ending. This is like the BS about Judah after he lost to Mayweather 'Judah would have beaten any other welterweight that night'... he promptly loses to Cotto...
Kessler's a good fighter, but making out that Cazlaghe was somehow less of a fighter when he fought Reid or Mitchell seems a touch convenient. People should face the fact, and fact it is, that Calzaghe was much closer to losing his 0 against those two men that against Kessler. And despite what anyone says Calzaghe isn't better at 35 than he was at 32, or 30, or 28.

Its a toughie to call, I don't think anyone can really say Calzaghe was a better fighter now than he was vs Reid - However, his preperation problems were well documented before and after the fight. THe man suffered food poisioning, couldn't spar - no mention of these problems for Kessler. Plus, on my card - admitedly in the minority - the difference between the two performances was one level round.

Mitchell - essentially all he did was land one peach of a punch - but yes, he did look in a bad way in a way he was never looked before or since. How close he was too losing though is a tough call. Yes though, Calzaghe appeared to be fully prepared and was everybit as good as the Calzaghe who beat Kessler.

Kessler would bet any version of Reid or Mitchell.

It's blatantly obvious that Joe raised his game vs Kessler, easily his best ever opponent, like he raised it vs Lacy, possibly his most dangerous. Joe was on bigger stages, drew on all his experience from fights like Reid and Mitchell, and took things to another level.

His stamina is still impressive, his punching more accurate, his ring smarts way better. Joe fights to the occasion.

I think Joe was always very good. He stepped up these past 2 years and proved he was great. Hre never quite took that step before, his career stagnated a bit, now he's come through as a p4p player (something he never quite was before) and a modern day great.

During the Lacy fight, Joe never showed in his previous fights that he had THAT level of ability. Let's face it, we were all blown away. He is a better fighter now, because he was allowed to find out.

Taki... wrote: Calzaghe was badly hurt against Mitchell, just watch the fight again if you don't think so. It wasn't a flash KD or anything to do with balance, Calzaghe was seriously shaken. If Mitchell had of taken a more studied approach to trying to finish Calzaghe off rather than rushing in all guns blazing he might well have won the fight.
In the Kessler fight Calzaghe was caught with two flush uppercuts, that was a 'similar slip in concentration'! You seem to be trying to make a point that isn't there. Kessler hit Calzaghe with flush power punches and didn't score a KD, or come close to scoring one. Mitchell on the other hand did. Calzaghe has always been 'careless' with his defence, especially on the inside.

Not sure what point you think you are making. Calzaghe beat Mitchell up in both round 1 and in round 2 after the KD in a way that would be plain unthinkable with Kessler, where Calzaghe just nicked most rounds on higher workrate. As for Reid, see stujones latest post.

pundit wrote:

Taki... wrote: Calzaghe was badly hurt against Mitchell, just watch the fight again if you don't think so. It wasn't a flash KD or anything to do with balance, Calzaghe was seriously shaken. If Mitchell had of taken a more studied approach to trying to finish Calzaghe off rather than rushing in all guns blazing he might well have won the fight.
In the Kessler fight Calzaghe was caught with two flush uppercuts, that was a 'similar slip in concentration'! You seem to be trying to make a point that isn't there. Kessler hit Calzaghe with flush power punches and didn't score a KD, or come close to scoring one. Mitchell on the other hand did. Calzaghe has always been 'careless' with his defence, especially on the inside.

Not sure what point you think you are making. Calzaghe beat Mitchell up in both round 1 and in round 2 after the KD in a way that would be plain unthinkable with Kessler, where Calzaghe just nicked most rounds on higher workrate. As for Reid, see stujones latest post.

he's trying to say that Kessler isn't as good as Reid, because he didn't win on at least 1 card, and not as good as Mitchell because he didn't knock Joe down.

I don't like the Kessler/Judah comparisons. Judah was always one to bottle it or get outclassed in top company.

Autobarn wrote:

pundit wrote:

Taki... wrote: Calzaghe was badly hurt against Mitchell, just watch the fight again if you don't think so. It wasn't a flash KD or anything to do with balance, Calzaghe was seriously shaken. If Mitchell had of taken a more studied approach to trying to finish Calzaghe off rather than rushing in all guns blazing he might well have won the fight.
In the Kessler fight Calzaghe was caught with two flush uppercuts, that was a 'similar slip in concentration'! You seem to be trying to make a point that isn't there. Kessler hit Calzaghe with flush power punches and didn't score a KD, or come close to scoring one. Mitchell on the other hand did. Calzaghe has always been 'careless' with his defence, especially on the inside.

Not sure what point you think you are making. Calzaghe beat Mitchell up in both round 1 and in round 2 after the KD in a way that would be plain unthinkable with Kessler, where Calzaghe just nicked most rounds on higher workrate. As for Reid, see stujones latest post.

he's trying to say that Kessler isn't as good as Reid, because he didn't win on at least 1 card, and not as good as Mitchell because he didn't knock Joe down.

In this case Sven Ottke remains the one and only true superstar at 168. He beat Reid on all three cards, and Mitchell never came even close to knocking the phantom down....

Autobarn wrote:Kessler would bet any version of Reid or Mitchell.

It's blatantly obvious that Joe raised his game vs Kessler, easily his best ever opponent, like he raised it vs Lacy, possibly his most dangerous. Joe was on bigger stages, drew on all his experience from fights like Reid and Mitchell, and took things to another level.

His stamina is still impressive, his punching more accurate, his ring smarts way better. Joe fights to the occasion.

I think Joe was always very good. He stepped up these past 2 years and proved he was great. Hre never quite took that step before, his career stagnated a bit, now he's come through as a p4p player (something he never quite was before) and a modern day great.

During the Lacy fight, Joe never showed in his previous fights that he had THAT level of ability. Let's face it, we were all blown away. He is a better fighter now, because he was allowed to find out.

Good post - Joe actually said pre fight there was more chance of him losing to Bika or Manfredo than Kessler because he raises his game for the best.