Cazaghe should be a superstar!

[Rocky Balboa]

For all his achievements in boxing, his longevity in the sport, Calzaghe shoul be a superstar on the same scale of someone like David Beckham.

I'm not criticising guys like Beckham - good luck to him, but Joe's accomplishmets in boxing far outweigh anything Beckham has ever achieved in his football career.

We all know the statistis by now, but being champ for ten years in this era in boxing, that's amazing really. I doubt there will ever be a fighter who remains champion in the same weight category for five, let alone ten years, ever again in boxing!

What I'm saying is, there are other sportsman/women out there who get far more recognition, preaise, plaudits & status than Joe Calzaghe, & they haven't even achieved half of what Joe has.

I'm sure you have all heard the saying: "You never know what you've got until it's gone!" Maybe this applies to Calzaghe?

[Crew2]

DID YOU NOT SEE THE 'NO AVERAGE JOE' PROG ON ITV4?

BENN AND EUBANK MADE THAT PROGRAMME !

JOE BARELY BROKE A SMILE, NEARLY PUT ME TO SLEEP WHENEVER HE WAS ON. HIS DAD HAS TONNES MORE CHARISMA THAN HIM

[pundit]

For all his achievements in boxing, his longevity in the sport, Calzaghe shoul be a superstar on the same scale of someone like David Beckham.

I'm not criticising guys like Beckham - good luck to him, but Joe's accomplishmets in boxing far outweigh anything Beckham has ever achieved in his football career.

We all know the statistis by now, but being champ for ten years in this era in boxing, that's amazing really. I doubt there will ever be a fighter who remains champion in the same weight category for five, let alone ten years, ever again in boxing!

What I'm saying is, there are other sportsman/women out there who get far more recognition, preaise, plaudits & status than Joe Calzaghe, & they haven't even achieved half of what Joe has.

I'm sure you have all heard the saying: "You never know what you've got until it's gone!" Maybe this applies to Calzaghe?

Don't go overboard. Calzaghe has had ONE CAREER DEFINING FIGHT now. It's good that he's had it and I give him full credit for it -- with the Kessler win Calzaghe has shown that he is a real deal, and noone can take that away from him. But then, it's only one career defining fight, the rest of his boxing CV is still so-so. Some boxing legends have had 5 or 6 career defining fights. Had Calzaghe not wasted so much of his early career, his status could be even a lot higher.

Cheers,
P

[dr_devious]

Joes had 2 career defining fights - Jeff Lacy was a legitimate dangerman and a contestant to best SM in the world before he fought Calzaghe. However, his style was made to measure and he got trounced.
Kessler is technically a lot better than Lacy for sure. Credit to Joe for fighting these two at the end of his career - hes proved hes an all-time great now, pity we had to wait so long for him to fight the top men.
Thinking about it, Roy Jones never fought in the SM division when Calzaghe was champ, nor did James Toney, nor did Bernard Hopkins. So maybe it wasnt Joes fault he never fought these guys - the only thing he could have done was to move up to fight Jones. Was this fight ever really on the cards? Also, Calzaghe beat an old Eubank but the big domestic 3 of the 90s - Benn, Eubank and Collins - were done by the time Calzaghe was in his prime. Maybe not Joes fault he hasnt had more career defining fights then?

[J]

Joes had 2 career defining fights - Jeff Lacy was a legitimate dangerman and a contestant to best SM in the world before he fought Calzaghe. However, his style was made to measure and he got trounced.
Kessler is technically a lot better than Lacy for sure. Credit to Joe for fighting these two at the end of his career - hes proved hes an all-time great now, pity we had to wait so long for him to fight the top men.
Thinking about it, Roy Jones never fought in the SM division when Calzaghe was champ, nor did James Toney, nor did Bernard Hopkins. So maybe it wasnt Joes fault he never fought these guys - the only thing he could have done was to move up to fight Jones. Was this fight ever really on the cards? Also, Calzaghe beat an old Eubank but the big domestic 3 of the 90s - Benn, Eubank and Collins - were done by the time Calzaghe was in his prime. Maybe not Joes fault he hasnt had more career defining fights then?

ottke larsson glen johnson....kinda dispel that myth.

[pundit]

Joes had 2 career defining fights - Jeff Lacy was a legitimate dangerman and a contestant to best SM in the world before he fought Calzaghe. However, his style was made to measure and he got trounced.

I disagree with you on Lacy. Lacy was the perfect opponent for a pseudo-superfight: impressive KO record, the right passport, but limited skills and easy to defeat.

Kessler, by contrast, was a real challenge -- as Saturday's fight showed.

[hitman_hatton1]

Joes had 2 career defining fights - Jeff Lacy was a legitimate dangerman and a contestant to best SM in the world before he fought Calzaghe. However, his style was made to measure and he got trounced.
Kessler is technically a lot better than Lacy for sure. Credit to Joe for fighting these two at the end of his career - hes proved hes an all-time great now, pity we had to wait so long for him to fight the top men.
Thinking about it, Roy Jones never fought in the SM division when Calzaghe was champ, nor did James Toney, nor did Bernard Hopkins. So maybe it wasnt Joes fault he never fought these guys - the only thing he could have done was to move up to fight Jones. Was this fight ever really on the cards? Also, Calzaghe beat an old Eubank but the big domestic 3 of the 90s - Benn, Eubank and Collins - were done by the time Calzaghe was in his prime. Maybe not Joes fault he hasnt had more career defining fights then?

ottke larsson glen johnson....kinda dispel that myth.

2 of em play football don't they.

those 3 are hardly in the jones or hopkins league.

[J]

dude read the post i was replying to.

(err didnt johnson hand RJJ his ass not so long ago?)

[pundit]

Maybe not Joes fault he hasnt had more career defining fights then?

Maeybe not Joe's fault. But surely allegedly's fault.

[J]

No one's yet to point out that Joe may not be as popular as other sports personalities because he's a bit of a twat.
That was the first thing that struck me.

correct only met him once but can concur he struck me as a total arrogant and disinterested nobjockey.

[Matt W]

I always thought Calzaghe was very arrogant at the start of his career and didn't like him at all - I remember when he was a studio guest for Reid fights and all he would say would be 'I'd beat him'.

I now think this could have been more due to the fact that he was trying to find a way to best promote himself without being too conscious of how he came across. I've since thought he seems a decent, down-to-earth bloke away from the ring.

If I'm wrong here please enlighten me as to how he is a dickhead...?

[mrkh]

Joes had 2 career defining fights - Jeff Lacy was a legitimate dangerman and a contestant to best SM in the world before he fought Calzaghe. However, his style was made to measure and he got trounced.
Kessler is technically a lot better than Lacy for sure. Credit to Joe for fighting these two at the end of his career - hes proved hes an all-time great now, pity we had to wait so long for him to fight the top men.
Thinking about it, Roy Jones never fought in the SM division when Calzaghe was champ, nor did James Toney, nor did Bernard Hopkins. So maybe it wasnt Joes fault he never fought these guys - the only thing he could have done was to move up to fight Jones. Was this fight ever really on the cards? Also, Calzaghe beat an old Eubank but the big domestic 3 of the 90s - Benn, Eubank and Collins - were done by the time Calzaghe was in his prime. Maybe not Joes fault he hasnt had more career defining fights then?

i seem to remember our top 3 international boxers of the 80s and 90s were Benn,Watson,Eubank

forget Collins,he was beginning to make a name for himself when Calzaghe turned up

[jamesmcdonnell]

There is no doubt in my mind that there were some names Joe wanted to face that he couldn't get in the ring, but also that there are others he didn't make enough effort to make happen. There were a lot of challengers, people like say Larsen, who were not superstars, but had credentials far superior to the bottom feeders of the WBO. There was also the likes of Beyer, Lucas, genuine champions which Calzaghe didn't face, and also Mundine, Green etc.

Now, I am confident Calzaghe would have beaten any of these men, but he never faced them, which is a bit of a shame.

I have almost forgiven this after witnessing him dismantle Lacy, and dominate Kessler, but it's still a case of what might have been.

If Calzaghe had fought and beaten those men, in addition to Lacy and Kessler, I think he would probably be thought of as P4P top dog by now, or very very close to it at number 2.

[Autobarn]

Joes had 2 career defining fights - Jeff Lacy was a legitimate dangerman and a contestant to best SM in the world before he fought Calzaghe. However, his style was made to measure and he got trounced.

I disagree with you on Lacy. Lacy was the perfect opponent for a pseudo-superfight: impressive KO record, the right passport, but limited skills and easy to defeat.

Kessler, by contrast, was a real challenge -- as Saturday's fight showed.

he beat the puncher in Lacy and the boxer in Kessler. He beat these guys when they both had got America interested in them, so despite the immense frustration over the years, I suppose he proved himself at least when ppl were interested worldwide.

I'm not so bothered about Ottke (inferior to Kessler -Ottke would barely beat the guys that Kessler has dominated...though "Condomi" did KO Mundine) or Glen Johnson (Sheika beat him, then Joe stopped Sheika).

Joe's beaten current champs (both unbeaten), ex champs (still serviceable), Euro level & fringe level. Surely the only thing missing is an exciting young contender. Some young(ish) guy who'll put it all on the line to try and rip Joe's belts away...Inkin and Froch fit the bill, IMO.

I know JC's way too fast for Inkin, but a few of those body shots may slow Joe down a little...

[pundit]

There is no doubt in my mind that there were some names Joe wanted to face that he couldn't get in the ring, but also that there are others he didn't make enough effort to make happen. There were a lot of challengers, people like say Larsen, who were not superstars, but had credentials far superior to the bottom feeders of the WBO. There was also the likes of Beyer, Lucas, genuine champions which Calzaghe didn't face, and also Mundine, Green etc.

Now, I am confident Calzaghe would have beaten any of these men, but he never faced them, which is a bit of a shame.

I have almost forgiven this after witnessing him dismantle Lacy, and dominate Kessler, but it's still a case of what might have been.

Now hold it before we create myths. Calzaghe didn't "dominate" Kessler. For that he got hit too often and lost too many rounds. He did what he needed to win, controlled the secdon half of the fight and secured a safe victory, fine, but that's as much as one can say. And given how good Kessler is, this is quite an achievement.

[pundit]

Btw, am I the only one who found Calzaghe's performance in the fight's second half quite "Ottke"-esque? Boxing from the distance, jumping in and out with blistering speed, sidestepping and working the angles, and spoiling his opponent's offensive attempts. Never out to hurt his opponent, but carving out a safe points victory.

In my book there is nothing negative with this, btw. Quite in contrast: it shows the versatility and fighting intelligence of a boxer if he can adapt his style and strategy during a fight and taylor it to his opponent. Calzaghe tried to draw Kessler into a brawl early in the fight, this didn't work, hence he switched to hitting and running.

[Autobarn]

I always thought Calzaghe was very arrogant at the start of his career and didn't like him at all - I remember when he was a studio guest for Reid fights and all he would say would be 'I'd beat him'.

I now think this could have been more due to the fact that he was trying to find a way to best promote himself without being too conscious of how he came across. I've since thought he seems a decent, down-to-earth bloke away from the ring.

If I'm wrong here please enlighten me as to how he is a dickhead...?

he seems a lot more sure of himself these days. he had tremendous presence leading to, during and after the kessler fight.

he's definitely not done himself that many PR favors in the past, saying he wanted england to lose a football match, taking drab assignments, and not showing that much personality. but his arrogance is one that you have to have fighting at this level, i suppose. but it definitely it hard for me to warm to him for a long time.

[Matt W]

Well he probably has a tougher job convincing us otherwise because of his accent, but seriously it's that arrogance of his. He also doesn't seem to have much going on upstairs, he doesn't really have a personality he's just an arrogant speaking git and I just don't like him.
Hatton on ther other hand is very famous, he's not a dickhead you see.

To paraphrase Richard Pryor, it's a little harsh to knock a boxer out for not having a great deal upstairs - after all, they knock mofos out for a living

[Autobarn]

There is no doubt in my mind that there were some names Joe wanted to face that he couldn't get in the ring, but also that there are others he didn't make enough effort to make happen. There were a lot of challengers, people like say Larsen, who were not superstars, but had credentials far superior to the bottom feeders of the WBO. There was also the likes of Beyer, Lucas, genuine champions which Calzaghe didn't face, and also Mundine, Green etc.

Now, I am confident Calzaghe would have beaten any of these men, but he never faced them, which is a bit of a shame.

I have almost forgiven this after witnessing him dismantle Lacy, and dominate Kessler, but it's still a case of what might have been.

If Calzaghe had fought and beaten those men, in addition to Lacy and Kessler, I think he would probably be thought of as P4P top dog by now, or very very close to it at number 2.

many, many fights that didn't happen. I think these would all have been really good - but there was always some reason. Luckily Lacy and Kessler saw Joe as The Man enough to feel the need to travel to prove a point. Or I'd still be whinign and so would many others.

Here's the ones I wish had happened:

Hopkins 2002 (asked for double $$), Dean Francis (excruciating injury, prison sentence), Collins (pulled out, retired), Ottke (neither side showed any inclination to risk their belts), Woods (IBF decided not to sanction; Joe decided not to fight; then Woods teels Joe to get in line once he wins belt; then Hobson and Warren can't agree terms)), Glenn "Coffee" (personal problems, Joe pulls out twice), Harry Simon (killed ppl n 2 car crashes but went well off the boil when he left promoter Warren and trainer Brian Mitchell), Eastman (failed to put in the work to beat Joppy to be a world title holder). McCracken (didn't quite make it as world class, like Eastman), Echols (weird last min pullout), Catley (lost his title).

So definitely, a lot of bad luck that prevented Calzaghe getting more high profile names. He could, should have taken a gamble & achieved more but I can't argue with battering Lacy and solving Kessler.

[tonyevs]

What hasn`t helped Calzaghe is that he has been hidden away on Sky for the best part of his career.

What makes a superstar is hype and bullshit .. if that isn`t true then Ricardo Lopez would also be on everybodies lips in a discussion of modern greats.

Lacy had all the hype and Joe beat him ... and Joe fought him on ITV which probably got him the highest number of viewers of his long career.

Thats why I think Fwank will keep Khan on mainstream tv for as long as he can before taking him to the highest bidder when the hype and bullshit is at a peak.

[jamesmcdonnell]

There is no doubt in my mind that there were some names Joe wanted to face that he couldn't get in the ring, but also that there are others he didn't make enough effort to make happen. There were a lot of challengers, people like say Larsen, who were not superstars, but had credentials far superior to the bottom feeders of the WBO. There was also the likes of Beyer, Lucas, genuine champions which Calzaghe didn't face, and also Mundine, Green etc.

Now, I am confident Calzaghe would have beaten any of these men, but he never faced them, which is a bit of a shame.

I have almost forgiven this after witnessing him dismantle Lacy, and dominate Kessler, but it's still a case of what might have been.

Now hold it before we create myths. Calzaghe didn't "dominate" Kessler. For that he got hit too often and lost too many rounds. He did what he needed to win, controlled the secdon half of the fight and secured a safe victory, fine, but that's as much as one can say. And given how good Kessler is, this is quite an achievement.

Depends how many rounds you thought he lost. I preferred Calzaghe's work throughout the fight, and had it 117-111, I thought far too much was made of Kessler landing the occasional hard blow, aside from the fourth, eighth and twelfth, Kessler didn't run any of the roundns for me.

For me he did dominate Kessler, but that's merely my personal opinion. I was confident from the 7th on that Calzaghe had it in the bag, and barring a disaster was going to win easily.

[jjfc]

Btw, am I the only one who found Calzaghe's performance in the fight's second half quite "Ottke"-esque? Boxing from the distance, jumping in and out with blistering speed, sidestepping and working the angles, and spoiling his opponent's offensive attempts. Never out to hurt his opponent, but carving out a safe points victory.

No. Because Calzaghe came forward, pressed the action of the fight, and kept it entertaining.

Also, he didn't need to rely on dodgy judging or reffing.

But probably the biggest difference between Calzaghe and Ottke was that this fight happened at all. Calzaghe was willing to fight his major opponents, while Ottke, in retrospect, has to be viewed as a cheating coward.

[nickd]

Btw, am I the only one who found Calzaghe's performance in the fight's second half quite "Ottke"-esque? Boxing from the distance, jumping in and out with blistering speed, sidestepping and working the angles, and spoiling his opponent's offensive attempts. Never out to hurt his opponent, but carving out a safe points victory.

No. Because Calzaghe came forward, pressed the action of the fight, and kept it entertaining.

Also, he didn't need to rely on dodgy judging or reffing.

But probably the biggest difference between Calzaghe and Ottke was that this fight happened at all. Calzaghe was willing to fight his major opponents, while Ottke, in retrospect, has to be viewed as a cheating coward.

Calzaghe has been as guilty of that as Ottke. The Lacy and Kessler fights should have been the standard during his reign not the pinnacle. Then we'd be talking about an all time great and a superstar. Sorry but all this talk of him being an all time great is going way overboard. Modern great is still debatable - but alltime? As of now no way in my book.

[pundit]

Btw, am I the only one who found Calzaghe's performance in the fight's second half quite "Ottke"-esque? Boxing from the distance, jumping in and out with blistering speed, sidestepping and working the angles, and spoiling his opponent's offensive attempts. Never out to hurt his opponent, but carving out a safe points victory.

No. Because Calzaghe came forward, pressed the action of the fight, and kept it entertaining.

Also, he didn't need to rely on dodgy judging or reffing.

But probably the biggest difference between Calzaghe and Ottke was that this fight happened at all. Calzaghe was willing to fight his major opponents, while Ottke, in retrospect, has to be viewed as a cheating coward.

I made a comment about fighting style, mate. Seems this aspect has eluded you.

[jjfc]

I used to believe that. But fighting Lacy and Kessler (and the deal with Showtime to fight Hopkins) makes that proposition seem unreasonable.

Are we really supposed to believe that Calzaghe just woke up one day, and had some miraculous change of heart, deciding to reinvent his entire career?

I made a comment about fighting style, mate. Seems this aspect has eluded you.

Reread the first part of my post.