BoxRec

Goz wrote:

stujones wrote: However, I really cannot believe boxing fans are so chuffed to see such a servant who has, single handily almost, kept boxing alive in the 90's and 00's get a pasting.

They aren't really boxing 'fans' are they? Deep down I think these people aren't really boxing fans per se, they invest too much in hating over something nondescript.

Goz, people have favourite fighters and that's part of Boxing.


I am sure City fans LOVE IT when United lose - thay are still fans.

DG. wrote:What's up ,Carbo?

Time of the month?

Ya bastard!

Yeah, must be. I woke up late for the British part of the card after being in bed with some kind of man-flu/possible early stages of pneumonic plague or ebola (depending whether you believe Mrs Carbo's diagnosis or mine) and felt grumpy ever since.

However, generally, I get tired of the brain wet-farts that end up pebbledashing this forum. I'm all for debate and differences of opinions, but take this post:

DG. wrote:
Servant? Servant?

He has served himself in all honesty.

At last the cheesy grin and bullshit stops. No more DLH and I am glad!

That's not an opinion; it’s just mini rant: forum posting as a facsimile of masturbation for the sexually deprived – a release of tension and pressure. Now, I'm all for ranting, but it needs to be ranting based on something.

If you think DLH has been well marketed, you'd be right. If you thought he'd lined his own pockets, you'd be right.

If you thought he was bad for boxing, or protected, or nothing but a media creation, or not good at boxing, or not a fully justifiably nailed on first ballot hall of famer based on his ring achievements only, you'd be wrong.

Not "entitled to your opinion". Not "just your take". Not "your view". Just plain wrong.

The guy fought a peak Trinidad, a peak Mosley, a peak Quartay, a nearish peak Hopkins, and a peak Pacquiao. He won alphabet belts at six weight divisions. He raised the profile of boxing. He fought in huge, often exciting events. He had a good chin, and only once didn't get up when he was knocked down. He was far from a perfect fighter, and could never quite find himself. But he was still very, very good.

You don't like him, and that's fine. You've come up with an utterly hilarious moniker for him – well done! You take pleasure in seeing him beaten up at the end of his career. That's fine. I’m sure loads of people from places like Jacksonville, Florida, and Birmingham, Alabama enjoyed seeing Ali beaten up by Holmes.

But your 'opinions' need to be opinions. Saying that the earth is flat is not an opinion. Arguing that the LA Galaxy are a better football team than Liverpool is not an opinion.

Sorry, I should have said all this to start with instead of resorting to grouchy, pissy, snide garbage. Apologies for that, but I hope you see my point.

Carbo wrote:
The guy fought a peak Trinidad, a peak Mosley, a peak Quartay, a nearish peak Hopkins, and a peak Pacquiao.

Go ahead and praise Oscar all you like, but don't try to spin it that he met a peak Quartey - he clearly didn't.
Ike was no longer the fearsome figure of a few years back when Oscar finaly signed to fight him: He'd been out over a year and had nearly died from malaria, and in his last fight had been floored twice and nearly stopped by JL Lopez.
He was clearly past his best and had shown vunerability for the first time. A very good time to take him on.

MightyWarrior wrote:

Carbo wrote:
The guy fought a peak Trinidad, a peak Mosley, a peak Quartay, a nearish peak Hopkins, and a peak Pacquiao.

Go ahead and praise Oscar all you like, but don't try to spin it that he met a peak Quartey - he clearly didn't.
Ike was no longer the fearsome figure of a few years back when Oscar finaly signed to fight him: He'd been out over a year and had nearly died from malaria, and in his last fight had been floored twice and nearly stopped by JL Lopez.
He was clearly past his best and had shown vunerability for the first time. A very good time to take him on.

OK. Take it out. The argument doesn't change.

MightyWarrior wrote:

Carbo wrote:
The guy fought a peak Trinidad, a peak Mosley, a peak Quartay, a nearish peak Hopkins, and a peak Pacquiao.

Go ahead and praise Oscar all you like, but don't try to spin it that he met a peak Quartey - he clearly didn't.
Ike was no longer the fearsome figure of a few years back when Oscar finaly signed to fight him: He'd been out over a year and had nearly died from malaria, and in his last fight had been floored twice and nearly stopped by JL Lopez.
He was clearly past his best and had shown vunerability for the first time. A very good time to take him on.

He floored DLH, fought well and lasted the distance - and many thought he won.

What lost him the fight was his lack of devil, he spent most of the 12 rounds with his right arm cocked and ready to throw a punch.

Why is he being taken off the list? Because he'd been inactive and ill? I disagree

So, Pac beats Hatton and then faces PBF in a 'super' fight?

Seems logical to me? Or even heaven forbid, Hatton beats Pac and has a rematch with PBF?

DG. wrote:

Goz wrote:

stujones wrote: However, I really cannot believe boxing fans are so chuffed to see such a servant who has, single handily almost, kept boxing alive in the 90's and 00's get a pasting.

They aren't really boxing 'fans' are they? Deep down I think these people aren't really boxing fans per se, they invest too much in hating over something nondescript.

Goz, people have favourite fighters and that's part of Boxing.


I am sure City fans LOVE IT when United lose - thay are still fans.

That is a good point DG, the nature of sport I guess!

I guess the thing with football is it's pretty tough for a City fan to build a case that 'Man.Utd aren't all that'

Captain Hook wrote:

MightyWarrior wrote:

Carbo wrote:
The guy fought a peak Trinidad, a peak Mosley, a peak Quartay, a nearish peak Hopkins, and a peak Pacquiao.

Go ahead and praise Oscar all you like, but don't try to spin it that he met a peak Quartey - he clearly didn't.
Ike was no longer the fearsome figure of a few years back when Oscar finaly signed to fight him: He'd been out over a year and had nearly died from malaria, and in his last fight had been floored twice and nearly stopped by JL Lopez.
He was clearly past his best and had shown vunerability for the first time. A very good time to take him on.

He floored DLH, fought well and lasted the distance - and many thought he won.

What lost him the fight was his lack of devil, he spent most of the 12 rounds with his right arm cocked and ready to throw a punch.

Why is he being taken off the list? Because he'd been inactive and ill? I disagree

Yes, and off course he was so shot that some 6/7 years after this fight - at a weight that didn't suit him he got shafted against Vernon Forrest. A guy who people often list as one Oscar "avoided" - even though Oscar had said good bye to the Welterweight devision when he got on the radar.

Oscar made his Welterweight debut in 1997, Quartey began his injuries/illness issues in 1997. So would you rather have seen Oscar take on a massive Welterweight as a bulked up Lightweight? Or would you rather have seen Oscar fight Lopez?

Goz wrote: That is a good point DG, the nature of sport I guess!

I guess the thing with football is it's pretty tough for a City fan to build a case that 'Man.Utd aren't all that'

No more difficult than it is for DG to build a similar case against DLH.

jeej wrote:So, Pac beats Hatton and then faces PBF in a 'super' fight?

Seems logical to me? Or even heaven forbid, Hatton beats Pac and has a rematch with PBF?

Hatton beats Pac Man - he deserves his crack at Floyd. Hatton beating Pac Man would be a better win and need to be a better performance than ANYTHING Ricky has done before now... and therefore we could give the "new" Ricky an outside chance at toppling Floyd.

Yes, and off course he was so shot that some 6/7 years after this fight - at a weight that didn't suit him he got shafted against Vernon Forrest. A guy who people often list as one Oscar "avoided" - even though Oscar had said good bye to the Welterweight devision when he got on the radar.

Oscar made his Welterweight debut in 1997, Quartey began his injuries/illness issues in 1997. So would you rather have seen Oscar take on a massive Welterweight as a bulked up Lightweight? Or would you rather have seen Oscar fight Lopez?[/quote]

If Quartey had a flare-up of Malaria, then that argument doesn't hold water. Nelson had Malaria when he first fought Fenech - and looked pretty poor, in the rematch he won with ease.

That's not to say he was shot, which is something entirely different. Oscar had a couple of decisions which went his way, and a couple which didn't. There were a lot of fighters on his record who were diminished by the time they fought Oscar, but they were still very good wins.

The best fight of his career I would say was agaisnt Mosley, Oscar lost the fight, but it was so close that it may as well have been a draw, and Mosley was deadly back then, he had been destroying everyone in the run up to that fight.

Yes James, I agree - but Quartey was over his health issues when he fought DLH. If he fought DLH in 1998 - then yes, he would have been in his illness. For me, DLH couldn't have fought Quartey any earlier - unless you wanted to see him fighting as a bulked up Lightweight.

Incidently, according to Wikipedia - Quartey was scheduled to fight in December, 2008.

Carbo wrote:

DG. wrote:What's up ,Carbo?

Time of the month?

Ya bastard!

Yeah, must be. I woke up late for the British part of the card after being in bed with some kind of man-flu/possible early stages of pneumonic plague or ebola (depending whether you believe Mrs Carbo's diagnosis or mine) and felt grumpy ever since.

However, generally, I get tired of the brain wet-farts that end up pebbledashing this forum. I'm all for debate and differences of opinions, but take this post:

DG. wrote:
Servant? Servant?

He has served himself in all honesty.

At last the cheesy grin and bullshit stops. No more DLH and I am glad!

That's not an opinion; it’s just mini rant: forum posting as a facsimile of masturbation for the sexually deprived – a release of tension and pressure. Now, I'm all for ranting, but it needs to be ranting based on something.

If you think DLH has been well marketed, you'd be right. If you thought he'd lined his own pockets, you'd be right.

If you thought he was bad for boxing, or protected, or nothing but a media creation, or not good at boxing, or not a fully justifiably nailed on first ballot hall of famer based on his ring achievements only, you'd be wrong.

Not "entitled to your opinion". Not "just your take". Not "your view". Just plain wrong.

The guy fought a peak Trinidad, a peak Mosley, a peak Quartay, a nearish peak Hopkins, and a peak Pacquiao. He won alphabet belts at six weight divisions. He raised the profile of boxing. He fought in huge, often exciting events. He had a good chin, and only once didn't get up when he was knocked down. He was far from a perfect fighter, and could never quite find himself. But he was still very, very good.

You don't like him, and that's fine. You've come up with an utterly hilarious moniker for him – well done! You take pleasure in seeing him beaten up at the end of his career. That's fine. I’m sure loads of people from places like Jacksonville, Florida, and Birmingham, Alabama enjoyed seeing Ali beaten up by Holmes.

But your 'opinions' need to be opinions. Saying that the earth is flat is not an opinion. Arguing that the LA Galaxy are a better football team than Liverpool is not an opinion.

Sorry, I should have said all this to start with instead of resorting to grouchy, pissy, snide garbage. Apologies for that, but I hope you see my point.

DLH was a very good fighter - but he is the best example of the media creating something.

I liken him to Leonardo De Crapio and the other supposed A list actors - they are not the 'best' actors, they are just marketed very well.

Check out some of the skilled lower weight fighters and tell me Oscar De La Chicken Tikka Anna Kournikova Hoya is better than they are!


De La Hoya is De Capiro

Hagler is De Niro!

Goz wrote:

DG. wrote:

Goz, people have favourite fighters and that's part of Boxing.


I am sure City fans LOVE IT when United lose - thay are still fans.

That is a good point DG, the nature of sport I guess!

I guess the thing with football is it's pretty tough for a City fan to build a case that 'Man.Utd aren't all that'

Actually was thinking about this a bit more and perhaps my point does stand up.

Those City fans that will tell you United aren't all that etc etc, they are CITY fans, not football fans in the true sense.

Lennox Lewis is probably one of my favourite fighters but he wasn't beyond criticism from me because I'm a boxing fan, not a Lennox Lewis fan.

Going back the football analogy, I'm a Spurs fan and therefore I detest Arsenal but that doesn't stop me calling it when they've played well etc, I'll say it as I see it. And so I say those that deride De La Hoya almost for a hobby are too hung up on 'hating' and not really general boxing fans.

Whatever lifts your frock (Froch ha ha ha) really, obviously it takes all sorts to follow a sport but for me a good fighter is a good fighter regardless of my dislike for their personality or whatever.

Just on the malaria thing, while it sounds horrific to us,the indigineous population of malaerial areas often get Maleria, they treat it as we would if we had a common cold.
However if they get our common flu that is far more serious to them as getting maleria is to us.

Its years of living with different types of disease and what through generations your body has built up anttibodies effective against different diseases.

maleria may kill us and the flu may kill an indigienous african for example.

(of course there are cases of fatlitities in both indiginous poplulations for both flu and maleria but its less of % )

Just so you understand when saying (he had just re-covered from maleria) may not be quite as serious as it sounds.

I had malaria 3 times as a child. I remember shivering like mad even though I was neither hot nor cold. It was tough. Fighting shortly after, or while, going through that is amazing.

I wonder if there was any problem with Dela Hoya's weight. On ESPN.com, Dan Rafael said that HBO had the weights on the night of the fight at 148.5 for Pacquaio and 147 for Dela Hoya. This is really strange. Dela Hoya was the far, far bigger man, and came in two pounds under a limit he hasn't made for many years, and then only gained 2 pounds?

What on earth was happening there?

Maybe somebody like Phenomenal Nutrition who knows more about this stuff than me can explain? Is this normal? Dela Hoya did say that he was down to the weight for two or three weeks, so perhaps he was eating normally for that time, and so there really wouldn't be much to add on. Perhaps this is the explanation? Is this indicative of over training? What is over training anyway?

Either way, it seems that the weight might have had something to do with the lack of energy.

J wrote:Just on the malaria thing, while it sounds horrific to us,the indigineous population of malaerial areas often get Maleria, they treat it as we would if we had a common cold.
However if they get our common flu that is far more serious to them as getting maleria is to us.

Its years of living with different types of disease and what through generations your body has built up anttibodies effective against different diseases.

maleria may kill us and the flu may kill an indigienous african for example.

(of course there are cases of fatlitities in both indiginous poplulations for both flu and maleria but its less of % )

Just so you understand when saying (he had just re-covered from maleria) may not be quite as serious as it sounds.

Goto call BS on this, I had a Nigerian girlfriend who grew up in Nigeria got Malaria while growing up there as a teenager and was rushed to hospital, nearly died. And yes she was thoroughbred

I also don't think flu affects african's worse than it does us otherwise African immigrants would be dropping dead left right and centre. But the real Flu can hospitalise anyone, what people call 'flu' is usually just a cold

Carbo wrote:I wonder if there was any problem with Dela Hoya's weight. On ESPN.com, fat Dan Rafael said that HBO had the weights on the night of the fight at 148.5 for Pacquaio and 147 for Dela Hoya. This is really strange. Dela Hoya was the far, far bigger man, and came in two pounds under a limit he hasn't made for many years, and then only gained 2 pounds?

What on earth was happening there?

Maybe somebody like Phenomenal Nutrition who knows more about this stuff than me can explain? Is this normal? Dela Hoya did say that he was down to the weight for two or three weeks, so perhaps he was eating normally for that time, and so there really wouldn't be much to add on. Perhaps this is the explanation? Is this indicative of over training? What is over training anyway?

Either way, it seems that the weight might have had something to do with the lack of energy.

I don't believe Delahoya could come in at 147 Carbo, Oscar has never been the sort of fighter to weigh the weight he fought at, like Mayweather for instance. You can also see imo Oscar looked fleshier in the ring than he did on the scales, which would indicate he added 10lbs or more of water. I'm guessing he didn't get weighed pre-bout and they incorrectly guestemated or didn't want the size difference to seem HUGE

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

Carbo wrote:I wonder if there was any problem with Dela Hoya's weight. On ESPN.com, fat fat Dan Rafael said that HBO had the weights on the night of the fight at 148.5 for Pacquaio and 147 for Dela Hoya. This is really strange. Dela Hoya was the far, far bigger man, and came in two pounds under a limit he hasn't made for many years, and then only gained 2 pounds?

What on earth was happening there?

Maybe somebody like Phenomenal Nutrition who knows more about this stuff than me can explain? Is this normal? Dela Hoya did say that he was down to the weight for two or three weeks, so perhaps he was eating normally for that time, and so there really wouldn't be much to add on. Perhaps this is the explanation? Is this indicative of over training? What is over training anyway?

Either way, it seems that the weight might have had something to do with the lack of energy.

I don't believe Delahoya could come in at 147 Carbo, Oscar has never been the sort of fighter to weigh the weight he fought at, like Mayweather for instance. You can also see imo Oscar looked fleshier in the ring than he did on the scales, which would indicate he added 10lbs or more of water. I'm guessing he didn't get weighed pre-bout and they incorrectly guestemated or didn't want the size difference to seem HUGE

I don't know. Usually when somebody won't step on the scales, they say so. I didn't have the HBO commentary, so i couldn't tell, but according to Rafael, they said it was 147.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

J wrote:Just on the malaria thing, while it sounds horrific to us,the indigineous population of malaerial areas often get Maleria, they treat it as we would if we had a common cold.
However if they get our common flu that is far more serious to them as getting maleria is to us.

Its years of living with different types of disease and what through generations your body has built up anttibodies effective against different diseases.

maleria may kill us and the flu may kill an indigienous african for example.

(of course there are cases of fatlitities in both indiginous poplulations for both flu and maleria but its less of % )

Just so you understand when saying (he had just re-covered from maleria) may not be quite as serious as it sounds.

Goto call BS on this, I had a Nigerian girlfriend who grew up in Nigeria got Malaria while growing up there as a teenager and was rushed to hospital, nearly died. And yes she was thoroughbred

I also don't think flu affects african's worse than it does us otherwise African immigrants would be dropping dead left right and centre. But the real Flu can hospitalise anyone, what people call 'flu' is usually just a cold

I can assure you its true the oil company I work for a has done studies on potential risks to expat population.

And yes some locals will get more severe cases, and if you didnt know flu kills alot of people brits per year as well !! As said its a generlism but i can assureyo maleria isnt the killer in africa vs when non indigenious population get it, some of whom suffer with it on a yearly basis. Though like our flu it is of course very dangerous dfor the young old or those of weakened postion.

As for the pther way round had a nigerian guy I worked with came to the office (funny enough he had just recovered from maleria, he got flu here and thought he was gonna die.)

his words not mine.

This may explain your girlfriends symptoms

quote
Expatriates do not develop significant immunity to malaria even after a prolonged stay.

Locals who acquire immunity over many years lose this very rapidly when they go overseas and can become seriously infected upon their return.

unquote


Also if travelers got to malerial contures they take tablets right?
Do you think Nigerians take maleria tablets all the time? No cos over thousands of years the indigineous population has built up more of a resistance to the diseases they are exposed to.

ergo same with flu / cold symptoms.

this isnt rocket science its plain common sense and BS it sure aint.

stujones wrote:

jeej wrote:So, Pac beats Hatton and then faces PBF in a 'super' fight?

Seems logical to me? Or even heaven forbid, Hatton beats Pac and has a rematch with PBF?

Hatton beats Pac Man - he deserves his crack at Floyd. Hatton beating Pac Man would be a better win and need to be a better performance than ANYTHING Ricky has done before now... and therefore we could give the "new" Ricky an outside chance at toppling Floyd.

But... you'll still get a lot of people saying; Pacman is much smaller than Ricky and Pacman only beat a washed up DLH etc...

J wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

J wrote:Just on the malaria thing, while it sounds horrific to us,the indigineous population of malaerial areas often get Maleria, they treat it as we would if we had a common cold.
However if they get our common flu that is far more serious to them as getting maleria is to us.

Its years of living with different types of disease and what through generations your body has built up anttibodies effective against different diseases.

maleria may kill us and the flu may kill an indigienous african for example.

(of course there are cases of fatlitities in both indiginous poplulations for both flu and maleria but its less of % )

Just so you understand when saying (he had just re-covered from maleria) may not be quite as serious as it sounds.

Goto call BS on this, I had a Nigerian girlfriend who grew up in Nigeria got Malaria while growing up there as a teenager and was rushed to hospital, nearly died. And yes she was thoroughbred

I also don't think flu affects african's worse than it does us otherwise African immigrants would be dropping dead left right and centre. But the real Flu can hospitalise anyone, what people call 'flu' is usually just a cold

I can assure you its true the oil company I work for a has done studies on potential risks to expat population.

And yes some locals will get more severe cases, and if you didnt know flu kills alot of people brits per year as well !! As said its a generlism but i can assureyo maleria isnt the killer in africa vs when non indigenious population get it, some of whom suffer with it on a yearly basis. Though like our flu it is of course very dangerous dfor the young old or those of weakened postion.

As for the pther way round had a nigerian guy I worked with came to the office (funny enough he had just recovered from maleria, he got flu here and thought he was gonna die.)

his words not mine.

This may explain your girlfriends symptoms

quote
Expatriates do not develop significant immunity to malaria even after a prolonged stay.

Locals who acquire immunity over many years lose this very rapidly when they go overseas and can become seriously infected upon their return.

unquote

Also if travelers got to malerial contures they take tablets right?
Do you think Nigerians take maleria tablets all the time? No cos over thousands of years the indigineous population has built up more of a resistance to the diseases they are exposed to.

ergo same with flu / cold symptoms.

this isnt rocket science its plain common sense and BS it sure aint.

Well a quick Google search reveals Malaria kills 1million per year, mainly African kids, so I'd say it hits them pretty hard and it is a huge killer. I'd say its possible African's have a higher immunity to the disease. But if you get it and your African your buggered and its allot harder to get over than a common cold. Some say once you've had malaria you're never the same again.

As for my Nigerian ex who got malaria, her, her mother/father grew up in Nigeria and didnt come to Britain until after she recovered from it

You are right Flu can kill, but most people never get the real flu otherwise they'd be hospitalised.

Malaria, like many diseases tends to kill the weakened, the very young and the very elderly.

The reason it affects Africans the most, is because Africa has the highest concentration of population in a Malarial Zone. It stands to reason they are going to be most affected.

You may have a high immunity to something, but if it is rife, and you keep getting reinfected, you're going to succumb.

There are also many different strains of Malaria, as the parasite is constantly evolving.

Anti Malarial medicines are also a lot easier to get over here, than over there if you live in some shitty little village 500 miles from the nearest makeshift hospital.

http://www.malariahotspots.co.uk/mapInteractive.asp

Africa
Malaria is widespread throughout the majority of Africa. The most deadly form of malaria, falciprium, is also the most common and certain antimalarial medications may not be very effective. Always get up to date, expert advice from a health care professional before travelling to any potential malaria destination. For more information on malaria risk in specific countries go to www.fitfortravel.scot.nhs.uk

South East Asia
Malaria is present in a number of countries throughout South East Asia, though in some countries it is restricted to specific areas / regions. Always get up to date, expert advice from a health care professional before travelling to any potential malaria destination. For more information on malaria risk in specific countries go to www.fitfortravel.scot.nhs.uk

Far East Asia
There is malaria risk in China, though not normally in densely populated urban centres. There is also some risk in the northern rural parts of South Korea. Always get up to date, expert advice from a health care professional before travelling to any potential malaria destination. For more information on malaria risk in specific countries go to www.fitfortravel.scot.nhs.uk

North America, Western Europe, Eastern Europe and Australasia
Malaria does not generally occur in North America, Western Europe, Eastern Europe or Australasia. For more information on malaria risk in specific countries and general travel health go to www.fitfortravel.scot.nhs.uk

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Malaria, like many diseases tends to kill the weakened, the very young and the very elderly.

...and those who don't have access to the cure.