Has anyone seen these fights?

The Keed · Post by **The Keed** » 30 Jun 2003, 13:52

Roberto Duran L-10 Kirkland Laing
Pipino Cuevas L-10 Roger Stafford
Gerrie Coetzee KO-10 Michael Dokes
Riddick Bowe W-10 Tony Tubbs
James Toney W-12 Reggie Johnson

I was curious about seeing some of these fights, and I was wondering if anyone who has seen them can tell me if they're worth shelling out money for?

Thanks in advance.

David Mills · Post by **David Mills** » 30 Jun 2003, 14:57

I've got the Toney vs Johnson fight on tape. I only have it because Toney is my favorite fighter ever so I try to get all of his fights that I can. Unless you are a big Toney fan, there is no real reason to buy it. Nothing special about it.

Broncano · Post by **Broncano** » 30 Jun 2003, 16:59

terap wrote:.

Later another Philly kid, Kevin Howard, beat the hell out of Leonard and dropped Leonard flat on his back

in a fight that is NEVER mentioned.

That one has been airbrushed out of history.

Absolutely right. I haven't seen that fight in years but I also believe that the stoppage was controversial. 10 minutes after the fight was over Howard was still on the ring and refusing to come down.

Broncano · Post by **Broncano** » 30 Jun 2003, 17:08

Roberto Duran L10 Kirkland Laing

Awfully frustrating to watch. Duran was completely out of shape, and Laing's awkward style, yet effective, kept making him miss all night. He never hurt Duran but beat him soundly.
It's one of those fights that you fast forward until the last round.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 30 Jun 2003, 18:06

terap...is that the fight in which don mking stepped over the prone body of Dokes, his former fighter, to shake hands with the winner? If it is, I saw it.....if not...the King story must be about another fight I saw....whatever, it is a glorious moment in the life of Don King...and a defining one.

Broncano · Post by **Broncano** » 01 Jul 2003, 00:53

terap wrote:Pipino Cuevas L-10 Roger Stafford

I didn't see that one, but I asked Stafford and his trainer Georgie Benton about it when I was in Frazier's gym not long afterward.
Benton said Cuevas was not the oriiginal Cuevas.

As a result of that win, Stafford was signed to fight Leonard.
But the fight was called off when Leonard "retired" with a detached retina.

When Roger Stafford finally got his chance a year later, it took Donald Curry about 2 minutes to get rid of him on the 3 knockdown rule.

The Cuevas that Stafford beat was the post-Hearns Cuevas. He was never the same after that brutal KO (with its tragicomic mexican wave before he came down), and lost several fights afterwards, including one KO by Duran on his way to take the title from Davey Moore.

However you want to rate Leonard as a welterweight, I don't think Stafford stood a chance against him had they fought in 1982 as it had been scheduled.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 01 Jul 2003, 11:32

terap..this is not an argument...it is an honest question:

WHY does "the media" do this covering up for Ali and Leonard and others you write about? When you say "the media" whom do you mean? There are many many writers and journalists and tv people who cover boxing. Are they all in agreement to do this selling job. The "media" is...well, I should are....a plural noun, meaning the whole group...not just one person..so they'd all have to be i agreement.

Again...I am not at this point saying your claims are false....I am sincerely asking why they have this agenda.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 01 Jul 2003, 18:13

terap...I'm not an innocent naIve young lady, but I read your message anyway.

Funny...I've been connected with the media in one form or another for about 35 years...actually had my firsrt piece published longer ago than that....have several books published..alas, out of print now, (but that happened to F. Scott Fitzgerald too)...have written and still write fiction and non fiction..including writing on boxing....and have been covered by the press myself...and I'll be darned... I guess the higher powers never noticed because we never encountered each other.

Now that I'm informed I may actually start censoring myself.

oh...by the way.....you still haven't answered the question...WHY???
Why do they protect the specific boxers you mention? Dick Young, for one..(of many)..constantly berated Ali as being a draft dodger...both in his columns and in discussions with me during that era.

The state governments obviously weren't in on this conspiracy, as there was a hard time finding a venue for the first Ali-Quarry fight..and...oh well..I'll stop here...and give you an opportunity to answer ...WHY???

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 01 Jul 2003, 18:36

I think he's saying that most of the major media only accepts stories that sell, and sales pitches for Ali, and Leonard made the readers interested. The Majority of people wanted to hear the "good" things.

All sports is like this. What do you think sells more? The USA today with Barry Bonds record breaking story on the cover, or the STAR magazine with Frank Thomas anal raping a 12 year old?

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 02 Jul 2003, 00:50

once again...why is the media so pro ali and the others you claim get a free ride.

If everything anti ali is barred, how do you explain the existance of that book...can't think of the title....it came out within the past year or so...about the Thrilla in Manilla...which has many highly negative comments about Ali, inlcuding his sister virtually calling him a coward and not one who stood for principal in his refusal to be drafted.

By "politically correct" in this context do you mean this monolithic media about which you are so erudite won't criticize a person whom some consider an African-American icon?

Now for a gentle note...my sympathies to you in youjr bereavement over the death of Strom Thurmond.

Dave1armedTua · Post by **Dave1armedTua** » 02 Jul 2003, 02:56

Again, I ask, when will he be banned

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 02 Jul 2003, 12:44

terap...my politics run well to the left of center and there's no closet about it. They ahve been public for years.

what do my politics have to do with boxing? nothing.

i think it's apparent by now that when I ask you.....

"WHY is there a media sales job in favor of Ali?" you're not going to answer.

If you want to turn this around into an attack on me you are not succeeding because I do not consider being called a left-winger an attack or an insult.

As for my being a "retard" I'll let the readers here decide for themselves.

I don't take lessons from anybody. I give them. Bad examples anyway..as I am well to the left of Barbara Walters and I don't know who the other woman is.

No need to go over the other statments you've made, because I just want to get back to:

WHY?....WHY?...WHY?

...

....also...why don't you respond to the other questions I'vce asked..such as the one about the thrilla oin manilla book?

Editors...please do not ban terap. He's just expressing himself and not violating any rules. Besides, we might find out eventaully where he gets his white sheets laundered.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 02 Jul 2003, 12:58

I already told you why Jaclem, ass kissing stories about famous people sell. And thus the majority of publishers use such material.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 02 Jul 2003, 13:03

Wow, you two are so blinded by your arguement with each other that you failed TWICE to notice I answered your question.

The Keed · Post by **The Keed** » 02 Jul 2003, 17:47

Tantum wrote:Wow, you two are so blinded by your arguement with each other that you failed TWICE to notice I answered your question.

I noticed that not a lot of people have answered my question.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 03 Jul 2003, 00:27

tantum.....first of all I do not HATE terap. My bile does not flow that easily. second, you made a good point about the press and what sells, but I was interested in TERAP'S reasons for his statements that there is an agenda to heap glory on Ali, Leonard, and others, as I felt..and feel....they are extreme.

As for terap's statement that I brought politics into the issue...read his previous post and you'll see he brought up the "left-wing" comment. I merely responded.

AS for the rest of terap's diatribe, I have noting to add. He speaks for himself and readers here can form their own opinion as to his reasoning and where he is coming from.

hawk...now I have to back up and check out your question again. From your writiong here in general I'm assuming it with either be sensible, funny or both.

oops..almost forgot. terap...assuming you are reading this, consolations to you also on the death of Lester Maddox.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 03 Jul 2003, 00:41

Hawk...well bless my hide...your question was actually the name of this thread. Things do go a little astray here sometimes, don't they.

I'm not sure how many of the fights in question I saw, and I don't remember any well enough to suggest your buying them.

If the Goetzee/dokes fight is the one in which Don King steps oveer the prone Dokes to shake hands with Goetzee, it might be worth it just for that...but I'm not certain if it is.

Terap has a good memory of fights, so maybe he can tell you.