Did Frank W.arren make a mistake?

[Spud]

I want to discuss how long this thread lasts!!!

[tonyevs]

Khan is becoming less and less of a crowd puller. But in all fairness to Khan - who exactly out of Fwanks new guys are actually big ticket sellers? DeGale is almost a forgotten man

[Adamj1987]

Khan is becoming less and less of a crowd puller. But in all fairness to Khan - who exactly out of Fwanks new guys are actually big ticket sellers? DeGale is almost a forgotten man

indeed he has no-one the british public has taken a shine to

hes no calzaghe or hatton

[Spud]

I want to discuss how long this thread lasts!!!

seeing that its had over 40 hits and one reply i would say it will be off the bottom of the page tomorrow morning. I guess my threads aint interesting but this is something i thought the minute Khan re-signed and went PPV. What you think spud, this is going to be locked? if so why its hardly slagging the man off

BigMark,

First of all - your initial post to start off this thread yet again shows you are a tadge naive concerning boxing - I say this because you are eluding Mr W arren made a mistake concerning Khan. Mr W arren made a FANTASTIC move in resigning Amir Khan it filled the gap when a gap needed filling!!! and if you dont think he has made money you are mistaken albeit the rumours are flying around that the well is now drying up - I would love to know the truth in those rumours.

Dont blame you one bit for trying to start off threads - more people should do it - But unfortunately it seems any threads to do with Mr W arren eventually become controversial and either get deleted or locked - I don't see the problem with controversy but there are some who are quite sensitive to it and like to get lawyers involved.

With regards to Khan and Mr W arren and their ongoing relationship - next couple of months are going to be most interesting.

With regards to PPV - more and more of boxing will be going that way - the thing is people albeit slowly are becoming wise to it and will not pay the money unless it is a quality show not just the one off fight - if promoters want to make themselves and their fighters any money they are simply going to have to get their fingers out.

Concerning W arren and Khan - has this new contract etc etc been confirmed!!

[Asterix]

Mark, I enjoy your posts (and your spelling and grammar is fine, as well as your intellect), but paragraphs can be your friend! :P

I think Warren needs Khan at the moment. He's his only marquee boxer. Warren needs to keep hold of Khan until he's built up the next one (or two). Warren's obviously pushing DeGale to be the next big name.

I do wonder why Warren didn't sign Tyson Fury. Did he try to?

[Webbo911]

I think only time will tell if Khan is going to be a good investment or not.

If he were to do a job on a big name in the next year or so, the boxing world would take notice and that would filter through to the mainstream. A bit like after Calzaghe beat Lacy.

Saying that, Calzaghe/Lacy was on ITV wasn't it?

Either way, i'm not paying 15 quid to watch Khan vs. Salita unless the undercard is amazing, and i consider myself a hardcore boxing fan.

[pnejon]

i think it depends on how long Frank has signed him for? remember the lad is only 22 years old and could have an amazing career ahead of him. More like keep him sweet for future investment i reckon.

with regards to Khan's last fight(which i thought he was awesome) i dont know anyone else who paid for it and dont know how much interest there was across the UK. HBO always announce their PPV figures etc, dont think SKY ever have?

[dondada]

Good thread Mark and keep it up mate.

Most 'boxing people' - certainly journalists - will NOT do anything negative about Mr W arren because it's just too much ballache for them and their editors.

He's done a brilliant job for Khan but whether it's brilliant for him has yet to be seen. I can't see how the money is being made when not many people are paying for PPV and not many are rolling up to the gate. But that's now. The future might be different and the promoter is making an investment.

The Olympians (and Gavin - not sure why he's lumped in with them) should be on very little money at the moment. The rewards will come later.

[Goz]

If W@rren has a half a fornicating brain he would be running regular shows with the Olympians on the BBC or ITV even if it means making no money now. The $$$ will come later when they are household names.

Even in the man in the street knows who Audley Harrison despite him being shite.

Frank, you're a fool if you don't attempt to build them up on terrestrial tv, and Sky you are fools too.

Build them up for 2/3 years then take them across to Sky and then onto PPV if they ever progress to big enough fights (although our opinion of what constitutes a big fight clearly varies).

[Counter-puncher]

did the money Khan got, both in terms of signing fees and purses, set the bar artificially high?

i mean we all know now that the only way Khan's exorbitant wage demands can be met, is allegedly by way of ppv?

did he set the 'market price' too high, in a pre credit crunch time, a price which is now not feasible?

[Bomber 1]

Hatton was built on sky and is the biggest draw this countrys ever seen.

Calzaghe couldn't draw flies until he beat Lacy and even then was still struggling!! Look at the Bika & Manfredo match attendances.He got a huge draw in Wales for the Kessler match but the show was still at a loss to FW, To the tune of £500'000 if I remember him printing right ...

FW would not be backing Amir if it wasn't in his best intrests, The place was sold out when he fought Barrera, Yes it was far from full when he boxed Kotelnik BUT the show was moved from the 02 in London and thousands had already paid good money for tickets,travel & accomodation etc,2 weeks is not nearly long enough to sell out a show. I think you'll see Amir built up and in the end he'll be able to rival almost anyone with attendance figures, In the end I can see him filling the Reebok stadium in a unification match that will make tens of millions of pounds in revenue TV,Attendance,Sponsors etc etc..

I can't remember FW ever backing someone as much as he's backed Amir and it not workin out..

[hitman_hatton1]

In the end I can see him filling the Reebok stadium in a unification match that will make tens of millions of pounds in revenue TV,Attendance,Sponsors etc etc..

bit surprised he didn't go for the reebok stadium sell for this summer.

obviously didn't see a return on it yet.

[Counter-puncher]

by the way mark nice thread and ignore spud's usual attempts to play the in-the-know ear-to-the-ground oh-you're-so-naive tw@

[Goz]

If W@rren has a half a effing brain he would be running regular shows with the Olympians on the BBC or ITV even if it means making no money now. The $$$ will come later when they are household names.

Even in the man in the street knows who Audley Harrison despite him being shite.

Frank, you're a fool if you don't attempt to build them up on terrestrial tv, and Sky you are fools too.

Build them up for 2/3 years then take them across to Sky and then onto PPV if they ever progress to big enough fights (although our opinion of what constitutes a big fight clearly varies).

but is this the fault of W.arren? When fighters want money as they become more successful and the BBC or ITV wont put up that cash what choice does he have? To get the services of the Olympians and to retain Khan he would of folk out a fair bit and that money doesnt grow on trees. As i said before all promoter would want their fighters fighting prime time ITV or BBC on a saturday night but if the maths dont add up as the finacial demands of the fighters is now higher he has to go to Sky

I'm just talking about building their profile. Speculating to accumulate and all that. I thought boxing promoters above all would take a few risks but as usual Fwank plays it nice and steady to the detriment of the sport as a whole.

Don't give the Olympians enormous signing on fees - where else are they going to go?

They need to be told that you might be a gold medallist but that doesn't mean you've made it financially - yet.

[Goz]

Hatton was built on sky and is the biggest draw this countrys ever seen.

Calzaghe couldn't draw flies until he beat Lacy and even then was still struggling!! Look at the Bika & Manfredo match attendances.He got a huge draw in Wales for the Kessler match but the show was still at a loss to FW, To the tune of £500'000 if I remember him printing right ...

FW would not be backing Amir if it wasn't in his best intrests, The place was sold out when he fought Barrera, Yes it was far from full when he boxed Kotelnik BUT the show was moved from the 02 in London and thousands had already paid good money for tickets,travel & accomodation etc,2 weeks is not nearly long enough to sell out a show. I think you'll see Amir built up and in the end he'll be able to rival almost anyone with attendance figures, In the end I can see him filling the Reebok stadium in a unification match that will make tens of millions of pounds in revenue TV,Attendance,Sponsors etc etc..

I can't remember FW ever backing someone as much as he's backed Amir and it not workin out..

Hatton was built on Sky but more importantly he was built at the MEN and on the back of the boozed up Manc football supporting type crowd.

I still firmly believe the Brunos, Benns, Eubanks etc were all so popular because they were so easily identifiable by the man on the street.

[the patriot]

If W@rren has a half a effing brain he would be running regular shows with the Olympians on the BBC or ITV even if it means making no money now. The $$$ will come later when they are household names.

Even in the man in the street knows who Audley Harrison despite him being shite.

Frank, you're a fool if you don't attempt to build them up on terrestrial tv, and Sky you are fools too.

Build them up for 2/3 years then take them across to Sky and then onto PPV if they ever progress to big enough fights (although our opinion of what constitutes a big fight clearly varies).

Sounds good in theory, but I bet ITV/BBC would be happy to see their investment go up in smoke just as they're about to make money when the fighters hit the big time. Just like Khan I suppose, spent his formative years fighting on ITV then hops on the Sky buss when he starts fighting for titles.

[Goz]

I just reckon they (Sky and terrestrial) could work together.

Look at the Match of the Day (twice weekly on BBC) and Live Premiership games (On Sky and soon to be ESPN) model.

Match of the Day feeds the public interest and has it's place and I feel serves as something of an appetizer to get people wanting to watch the live games by either 1 - Subscribing to Sky or 2 - Getting down the pub to watch them.

[chinny]

Good question Mark. Unfortunately I think there are a few unknowns which make it hard to say without access to the financials

Firstly, W arren is on record as saying that when khan lost to Prescott, the TV money nosedived. I guess if the promotional contract with Khan included clauses which correspondingly reduced Khan’s purses, then W arren is covered

Second, we don’t know what the official PPV numbers are because unlike HBO, Sky don’t release them. What is in the public domain is that the first PPV needed c250k buys. IT is rumoured to have done 40k. K2 came up with a figure of 30k for the Kotelnik but W arren says it was in excess of 100k.

Third, we don’t know what the structure of the new promotional company is and we don’t know what it’s assets are. We do know that Sports Network are in administration, but I was underwhelmed by how little the administrators seem to have got their hands on (from the ad in BN)

It just depends on how much Khan is getting! We know with some certainty that Khan is the jewel in the crown and that he must be the major leverage to the Sky deal

[teddy007]

Hatton was built on sky and is the biggest draw this countrys ever seen.

Calzaghe couldn't draw flies until he beat Lacy and even then was still struggling!! Look at the Bika & Manfredo match attendances.He got a huge draw in Wales for the Kessler match but the show was still at a loss to FW, To the tune of £500'000 if I remember him printing right ...

FW would not be backing Amir if it wasn't in his best intrests, The place was sold out when he fought Barrera, Yes it was far from full when he boxed Kotelnik BUT the show was moved from the 02 in London and thousands had already paid good money for tickets,travel & accomodation etc,2 weeks is not nearly long enough to sell out a show. I think you'll see Amir built up and in the end he'll be able to rival almost anyone with attendance figures, In the end I can see him filling the Reebok stadium in a unification match that will make tens of millions of pounds in revenue TV,Attendance,Sponsors etc etc..

I can't remember FW ever backing someone as much as he's backed Amir and it not workin out..

Where is your backing and investment? You surely aint earning enough bunce to pay the bills at the moment.

[jamesmcdonnell]

If W@rren has a half a effing brain he would be running regular shows with the Olympians on the BBC or ITV even if it means making no money now. The $$$ will come later when they are household names.

Even in the man in the street knows who Audley Harrison despite him being shite.

Frank, you're a fool if you don't attempt to build them up on terrestrial tv, and Sky you are fools too.

Build them up for 2/3 years then take them across to Sky and then onto PPV if they ever progress to big enough fights (although our opinion of what constitutes a big fight clearly varies).

Yes, but terrestrial TV is not interested. They have recoiled from boxing almost totally, so it's not really an option. Unless you count ITV4 as 'mainstream TV.'

[banjo]

Could the fact that the likes of the BBC aren't interested in boxing be down to the promoters over-pricing their fighters?

[Counter-puncher]

Could the fact that the likes of the BBC aren't interested in boxing be down to the promoters over-pricing their fighters?

or indeed their own stupidity in giving audley a mill?

[banjo]

Could the fact that the likes of the BBC aren't interested in boxing be down to the promoters over-pricing their fighters?

or indeed their own stupidity in giving audley a mill?

Well maybe that is also a factor in it, they got their fingers burnt with Audley and don't want to get stung again, they'd probably buy some boxing if the promoters lowered their demands.

[Counter-puncher]

Could the fact that the likes of the BBC aren't interested in boxing be down to the promoters over-pricing their fighters?

or indeed their own stupidity in giving audley a mill?

Well maybe that is also a factor in it, they got their fingers burnt with Audley and don't want to get stung again, they'd probably buy some boxing if the promoters lowered their demands.

i think its systemic mate, for promoters to lower their demands they would need the olympians/ khan etc to lower their demands.

[alexpaterson]

I think Warren has done wonders for Khan 3 fights after his 1st round defeat he's a world champ that is some shrewd matchmaking imo I think BJ Saunders will bring big crowds with his all action style