WHAT THE HELL is wrong with us boxing fans?

[damianhucker1]

I have been watching boxing for over 25 years so nothing really shocks me anymore. I think i've seen almost everything that's right and wrong with the sport. I love talking boxing but "what the hell" we really are bunch of moaning spoilt brats who feel we own the sport.

News flash kids, Boxing has been a flawed sport since the very first bouts were staged. I cant believe fans are now moaning about the super six as this is a breath of fresh air for the sport and i would love to see the same thing through all the divisions. Yes life is far from perfect with bad decisions, ref mistakes, early stoppages and PPV but that is just sign of the times but nothing new.

Boxing is a sport of opinions but when a boxing fan does agree with another over scoring its like someone had commited a murder. There is no set in stone rules to how to score a pro fight so until there is it will be down to objective opinion which will differ from one man to the next.

Nothing is perfect in our world, we moan when a fight gets stopped early and moan when one is stopped too late. We complain about mismatches and then moan about the super six. We complain when top fighters dont face each other and when they do dont understand why its on PPV or our fighters are forced to fight at 2am.

The oversight that most of us fans have is the fact that Boxing has always been a buisness and its about what you negociate not what you deserve. The people behind the sport are in it to make money and this makes the sport very unique.

I have my good and bad times with the sport but have learnt to accept it for what it is which in my book the longest running soap opera there has ever been. Yes lets have opinions but lets not forget what boxing in general is and always has been a flawed sport which was created so folk could make money.

TOTALLY AGREE AND ALL THIS DEBATING ABOUT THE FROCH FIGHT IS STIRRING MORE PUBLICITY FOR THE REST OF THE TOURNY , SO YES AGREED WE SHOULD SHUT UP AND GET ON WITH IT BUT THE DEBATES ARE GOOD FOR BOXING , AND IT IS A FORUM FOR BOXING OPINIONS AFTER ALL

[n1ebf]

I have been watching boxing for over 25 years so nothing really shocks me anymore. I think i've seen almost everything that's right and wrong with the sport. I love talking boxing but "what the hell" we really are bunch of moaning spoilt brats who feel we own the sport.

I'll read the rest when I'm not totally flogged as I am now.

But the first paragraph has me worried already.

Just because "nothing" "really" shocks you anymore", doesn't make it alright.

I watched Terry O Connor shaft somebody in my opinion last month, and on Friday night in Sunderland I thought Ben Murphy got shafted by referee Andrew Wright despite bossing his opponent who also had a point deducted, to come away with a draw. I watched my own brother shafted to high heaven in a 6 rounder once despite winning 5 rounds, sharing 1, and having his hand held high by his opponent after only getting a draw on an "away" show.........I wonder how Tommy Conroy is incidentally........

Expecting higher standards is't being a spoilt brat IMO, and we might not "own the sport" but see what it would be worth if we all, en masse, said, f*ck this load of sh*te.

[endgame]

BIGMARK ......

[charlieb]

Buncey's pet.

[stujones]

Bigmark

I actually, weirdly enjoyed both fights. Masterclass from Dirrell (IMO) and the Taylor vs Abraham one was quite intriguing. Taylor won some early rounds.

However, the Froch decision was pretty terrible...... its left a bad taste... a pity that the first controvesy, in what could be a great breath of fresh air globally occured in the UK.

I'm watching this fight with my old man... think my old man has it for Dirrel by 6 with the 12 still to go.

[tonyevs]

3. Its more difficult for promoters to make money so undercards will suffer and expect more mismatches

etc etc etc

Maybe something of the sorry state of boxing is the now universally taken for granted method of filling the under card with fights to develop young fighters in the promoters stable.

Wasn’t the original idea of boxing shows about watching good competitive fights?

[WOODDDDDDDYA]

I've never bought into this 'Super 6 Is The Best Thing To Happen In Boxing For 20 Years'. If so why has no major TV network in Britain wanted to cover it. Where was the Froch result in the national news slots over the weekend apart from the midlands area. There's nothing wrong in moaning about how the sport can be improved and it's up to the fans to keep demanding higher standards.

[Deadendgeneration]

I've never bought into this 'Super 6 Is The Best Thing To Happen In Boxing For 20 Years'. If so why has no major TV network in Britain wanted to cover it. Where was the Froch result in the national news slots over the weekend apart from the midlands area. There's nothing wrong in moaning about how the sport can be improved and it's up to the fans to keep demanding higher standards.

That's because for one reason or another Froch isn't big news in Britain. Doesn't mean the super six isn't the business. Bute should have been in it but that aside it's a great idea and a shame it can't happen in more weight classes. For what it's worth I had it 115-112 Dirrel and thought I was being quite generous to Froch. As soon as the fight was over my mate said to me Froch will get the splt decision, you can't go to the champs back yard and fight so defensively. I thought he was well wide of the mark but.....

[oliverfennell]

BigMark, agree with everything you said. Boxing fans as a whole are never happy.

Further cases in point:

- Hatton makes 15 defences of a WBU belt and is criticised for stagnating. Fair point. But then David Haye comes along and fights for a world title in the second fight of his full-time heavyweight campaign and he's criticised for jumping the queue.

- Oscar de la Hoya is criticised for "picking on" the smaller Pacquiaio. Then Pacquaio wins and HE gets criticised for picking on a weight-drained fighter.

- Pacquaio is now being criticised for asking Cotto to "drain" to a catchweight, while Marquez was not criticised for exactly the same thing when fighting Mayweather (predictably, Mayweather copped the "picking on a smaller guy" flak instead - which Cotto is not copping against Pac)

- Mayweather was criticised for "ducking" a "big welterweight" in Cotto, despite going UP in weight to fight the number one light-middle instead.

- Journeymen loses dozens, sometimes hundreds, of fights, and fans hail them as the backbones of the sport (fair enough), but then Jermain Taylor suffers three stoppage defeats, all in competitive fights among the top 5 of his divisions, and people are calling for his retirement.

- Speaking of retirement, fans complain when boxers fight too long (almost all), and complain when they retire on top (Lewis ducked a Vitali rematch, Calzaghe ducked Froch/Dawson, etc)

- Fans complain about a lack of a dominant champion in competitive divisions, and then complain about a lack of competitiveness when there is a dominant champion.

- Boxers who don't trash talk are called "boring" and "uncharismatic" (e.g. Lennox Lewis), but when a boxer tries to hype a fight (e.g. David Haye) he's called "arrogant" and fans can't wait to see him get knocked out.

[banjo]

Good post Mark and I agree with you.

The "Super Six" isn't a good idea, it's a great idea which nobody can predict what will happen, you have established champions like Kessler and Taylor, fighters with something to prove like Froch and Abraham and the unknown fighters or wildcards if you like in Ward and Dirrell.

Unfortunately boxing is and always has been a sport of controversy, all the way through boxing history there have been dodgy decisions, premature/late stoppages, bent referees, bent promoters, sanctioning bodies run by gangsters, certain fights not happening for whatever reason, allegations of cheating, fouling etc. etc. We just moan about it more nowadays and go "it's not like the good ol'days" in a Colin Hart sort of way when in fact it IS exactly like the so-called "good ol'days."

Everyday I see people accusing boxers of going for the money fight rather than the "legacy" fight, well I've got news for you, "legacy" doesn't put food on the table whereas money does and if you don't like it then you can lump it, it is the case, always has been the case and always will be the case.

Moaning about the way fighters fight is another one as well, boxing is a sport and sport is about winning, not looking good. If I were a pro boxer the first thing on my mind would be doing what I have to do to win and if that means stinking out the joint then so be it, then I'd take my money, have a shower, go for a pint, go for a kebab and go home for a shag. The last thing on my mind would be a load of pissheads in the crowd heckling me and moaning about me being boring.

[Counter-puncher]

good thread, good posts

[stujones]

BigMark, agree with everything you said. Boxing fans as a whole are never happy.

Further cases in point:

- Hatton makes 15 defences of a WBU belt and is criticised for stagnating. Fair point. But then David Haye comes along and fights for a world title in the second fight of his full-time heavyweight campaign and he's criticised for jumping the queue.

- Oscar de la Hoya is criticised for "picking on" the smaller Pacquiaio. Then Pacquaio wins and HE gets criticised for picking on a weight-drained fighter.

- Pacquaio is now being criticised for asking Cotto to "drain" to a catchweight, while Marquez was not criticised for exactly the same thing when fighting Mayweather (predictably, Mayweather copped the "picking on a smaller guy" flak instead - which Cotto is not copping against Pac)

- Mayweather was criticised for "ducking" a "big welterweight" in Cotto, despite going UP in weight to fight the number one light-middle instead.

- Journeymen loses dozens, sometimes hundreds, of fights, and fans hail them as the backbones of the sport (fair enough), but then Jermain Taylor suffers three stoppage defeats, all in competitive fights among the top 5 of his divisions, and people are calling for his retirement.

- Speaking of retirement, fans complain when boxers fight too long (almost all), and complain when they retire on top (Lewis ducked a Vitali rematch, Calzaghe ducked Froch/Dawson, etc)

- Fans complain about a lack of a dominant champion in competitive divisions, and then complain about a lack of competitiveness when there is a dominant champion.

- Boxers who don't trash talk are called "boring" and "uncharismatic" (e.g. Lennox Lewis), but when a boxer tries to hype a fight (e.g. David Haye) he's called "arrogant" and fans can't wait to see him get knocked out.

Good post, I agree with that all..... and argued that often (see my posts on Mayweather "cannot win"). It was getting rediculous... the excuses are made for the reason why he took on the fighters he did (or even ones who he called out but never materialised).... the excuses are already being made for his future fights!

Only thing that I am down about this tournament.... is that decision, gutted it happend in the UK of all places first. I think the system is potentially flawed, but we will see how it transpires.

For example, there could be a scenerio in which the fighter just been KO'd (and loses a world title) progresses to the semi final... and the fighter who scored the KO is eliminated (cause of previous defeats). Does this tournament then really show us who is the best Super Middle? I really do hope it works out, and hope that scenario never happens.

[gemmell]

TOTALLY AGREE AND ALL THIS DEBATING ABOUT THE FROCH FIGHT IS STIRRING MORE PUBLICITY FOR THE REST OF THE TOURNY , SO YES AGREED WE SHOULD SHUT UP AND GET ON WITH IT BUT THE DEBATES ARE GOOD FOR BOXING , AND IT IS A FORUM FOR BOXING OPINIONS AFTER ALL

a forum is about opinion but sometimes its just know all madness and ends up like a pissing contest. I am always trying to get new fans into the sport and always invite friends round for the fights but to any outsider we must come across as an arrogant bunch. This forum is generally very good but some of the stuff writen last night about the Froch fight and Primetime was just brain dead-

i knw several people were calling froch a bum.so he beats dirrell..pascal and taylor and he's a bum? i thought primetime was successful to be honest. and people slagging off buncey for giving his honest opinion is stupid.he knw's alot more about boxing then us lot on here

[WildWaylon]

I have been watching boxing for over 25 years so nothing really shocks me anymore. I think i've seen almost everything that's right and wrong with the sport. I love talking boxing but "what the hell" we really are bunch of moaning spoilt brats who feel we own the sport.

News flash kids, Boxing has been a flawed sport since the very first bouts were staged. I cant believe fans are now moaning about the super six as this is a breath of fresh air for the sport and i would love to see the same thing through all the divisions. Yes life is far from perfect with bad decisions, ref mistakes, early stoppages and PPV but that is just sign of the times but nothing new.

Boxing is a sport of opinions but when a boxing fan does agree with another over scoring its like someone had commited a murder. There is no set in stone rules to how to score a pro fight so until there is it will be down to objective opinion which will differ from one man to the next.

Nothing is perfect in our world, we moan when a fight gets stopped early and moan when one is stopped too late. We complain about mismatches and then moan about the super six. We complain when top fighters dont face each other and when they do dont understand why its on PPV or our fighters are forced to fight at 2am. Yes it sucks not have the big fights on the BBC or ITV but that is boxings fault for over valuation of its product so PPv is better than nothing,


The oversight that most of us fans have is the fact that Boxing has always been a buisness and its about what you negociate not what you deserve. The people behind the sport are in it to make money and this makes the sport very unique.

I have my good and bad times with the sport but have learnt to accept it for what it is which in my book the longest running soap opera there has ever been. Yes lets have opinions but lets not forget what boxing in general is and always has been a flawed sport which was created so folk could make money.

I agree Mark, and as with life you become less optomistic and more cynical as you get older, and experiance all kinds of situations. Of course boxing is a business but if you fail to please the fans you lose them, and they are your bread and butter. Boxing is in decline because promoters have taken the piss with poor cards. We need tournaments like the super six to get the fans back and gain new ones. Any pop artist who thinks they can make crap CDs and sell them because of their name, would be making a big mistake. The public will buy whatever it is, if the product is good and the last thing they consider are the people behind the product. They either like it or they dont. Fans are very, very important just as any customer is. They say the customer is always right and we have that right to complain if what we are getting falls below the standard we expect of it. Boxing is not unique, its no different to any other business, and if it doesnt follow the rules, then it suffers. Formula 1 has been forced to make many changes because it was losing fans. No business can say "you will have what I give you". You do make some valid points though.

[Flav1]

BigMark, agree with everything you said. Boxing fans as a whole are never happy.

Further cases in point:

- Hatton makes 15 defences of a WBU belt and is criticised for stagnating. Fair point. But then David Haye comes along and fights for a world title in the second fight of his full-time heavyweight campaign and he's criticised for jumping the queue.

- Oscar de la Hoya is criticised for "picking on" the smaller Pacquiaio. Then Pacquaio wins and HE gets criticised for picking on a weight-drained fighter.

- Pacquaio is now being criticised for asking Cotto to "drain" to a catchweight, while Marquez was not criticised for exactly the same thing when fighting Mayweather (predictably, Mayweather copped the "picking on a smaller guy" flak instead - which Cotto is not copping against Pac)

- Mayweather was criticised for "ducking" a "big welterweight" in Cotto, despite going UP in weight to fight the number one light-middle instead.

- Journeymen loses dozens, sometimes hundreds, of fights, and fans hail them as the backbones of the sport (fair enough), but then Jermain Taylor suffers three stoppage defeats, all in competitive fights among the top 5 of his divisions, and people are calling for his retirement.

- Speaking of retirement, fans complain when boxers fight too long (almost all), and complain when they retire on top (Lewis ducked a Vitali rematch, Calzaghe ducked Froch/Dawson, etc)

- Fans complain about a lack of a dominant champion in competitive divisions, and then complain about a lack of competitiveness when there is a dominant champion.

- Boxers who don't trash talk are called "boring" and "uncharismatic" (e.g. Lennox Lewis), but when a boxer tries to hype a fight (e.g. David Haye) he's called "arrogant" and fans can't wait to see him get knocked out.

This is an excellent post.

[crusader]

BigMark, agree with everything you said. Boxing fans as a whole are never happy.

Further cases in point:

- Hatton makes 15 defences of a WBU belt and is criticised for stagnating. Fair point. But then David Haye comes along and fights for a world title in the second fight of his full-time heavyweight campaign and he's criticised for jumping the queue.

- Oscar de la Hoya is criticised for "picking on" the smaller Pacquiaio. Then Pacquaio wins and HE gets criticised for picking on a weight-drained fighter.

- Pacquaio is now being criticised for asking Cotto to "drain" to a catchweight, while Marquez was not criticised for exactly the same thing when fighting Mayweather (predictably, Mayweather copped the "picking on a smaller guy" flak instead - which Cotto is not copping against Pac)

- Mayweather was criticised for "ducking" a "big welterweight" in Cotto, despite going UP in weight to fight the number one light-middle instead.

- Journeymen loses dozens, sometimes hundreds, of fights, and fans hail them as the backbones of the sport (fair enough), but then Jermain Taylor suffers three stoppage defeats, all in competitive fights among the top 5 of his divisions, and people are calling for his retirement.

- Speaking of retirement, fans complain when boxers fight too long (almost all), and complain when they retire on top (Lewis ducked a Vitali rematch, Calzaghe ducked Froch/Dawson, etc)

- Fans complain about a lack of a dominant champion in competitive divisions, and then complain about a lack of competitiveness when there is a dominant champion.

- Boxers who don't trash talk are called "boring" and "uncharismatic" (e.g. Lennox Lewis), but when a boxer tries to hype a fight (e.g. David Haye) he's called "arrogant" and fans can't wait to see him get knocked out.

This is an excellent post.

x2 (although I do think JT should retire)

[Datsue]

Good post Mark and I agree with you.

The "Super Six" isn't a good idea, it's a great idea which nobody can predict what will happen, you have established champions like Kessler and Taylor, fighters with something to prove like Froch and Abraham and the unknown fighters or wildcards if you like in Ward and Dirrell.

Unfortunately boxing is and always has been a sport of controversy, all the way through boxing history there have been dodgy decisions, premature/late stoppages, bent referees, bent promoters, sanctioning bodies run by gangsters, certain fights not happening for whatever reason, allegations of cheating, fouling etc. etc. We just moan about it more nowadays and go "it's not like the good ol'days" in a Colin Hart sort of way when in fact it IS exactly like the so-called "good ol'days."

Everyday I see people accusing boxers of going for the money fight rather than the "legacy" fight, well I've got news for you, "legacy" doesn't put food on the table whereas money does and if you don't like it then you can lump it, it is the case, always has been the case and always will be the case.

Moaning about the way fighters fight is another one as well, boxing is a sport and sport is about winning, not looking good. If I were a pro boxer the first thing on my mind would be doing what I have to do to win and if that means stinking out the joint then so be it, then I'd take my money, have a shower, go for a pint, go for a kebab and go home for a shag. The last thing on my mind would be a load of pissheads in the crowd heckling me and moaning about me being boring.

Damn good post that one.

Also: I intend to watch the rest of the Super Six, even if I'd prefer if Allan Green stepped up to replace Taylor. Girlfriend & I have even been talking about Copenhagen next year FFS, but I'll still hold that Froch got beat the other night, even whilst I'm there...

Oh & I for one am getting less cynical & twisted up as I get older. Guess it helped to be a mardy bastard from the off, but people who meet me now in my thirties wouldn't believe what a miserable twat I was in my twenties/teens.

[Counter-puncher]

Good post Mark and I agree with you.

The "Super Six" isn't a good idea, it's a great idea which nobody can predict what will happen, you have established champions like Kessler and Taylor, fighters with something to prove like Froch and Abraham and the unknown fighters or wildcards if you like in Ward and Dirrell.

Unfortunately boxing is and always has been a sport of controversy, all the way through boxing history there have been dodgy decisions, premature/late stoppages, bent referees, bent promoters, sanctioning bodies run by gangsters, certain fights not happening for whatever reason, allegations of cheating, fouling etc. etc. We just moan about it more nowadays and go "it's not like the good ol'days" in a Colin Hart sort of way when in fact it IS exactly like the so-called "good ol'days."

Everyday I see people accusing boxers of going for the money fight rather than the "legacy" fight, well I've got news for you, "legacy" doesn't put food on the table whereas money does and if you don't like it then you can lump it, it is the case, always has been the case and always will be the case.

Moaning about the way fighters fight is another one as well, boxing is a sport and sport is about winning, not looking good. If I were a pro boxer the first thing on my mind would be doing what I have to do to win and if that means stinking out the joint then so be it, then I'd take my money, have a shower, go for a pint, go for a kebab and go home for a shag. The last thing on my mind would be a load of pissheads in the crowd heckling me and moaning about me being boring.

Damn good post that one.

Also: I intend to watch the rest of the Super Six, even if I'd prefer if Allan Green stepped up to replace Taylor. Girlfriend & I have even been talking about Copenhagen next year FFS, but I'll still hold that Froch got beat the other night, even whilst I'm there...

Oh & I for one am getting less cynical & twisted up as I get older. Guess it helped to be a mardy bastard from the off, but people who meet me now in my thirties wouldn't believe what a miserable twat I was in my twenties/teens.

I bet you were a right miserable twat in your twenties/teens

[banjo]

Good post Mark and I agree with you.

The "Super Six" isn't a good idea, it's a great idea which nobody can predict what will happen, you have established champions like Kessler and Taylor, fighters with something to prove like Froch and Abraham and the unknown fighters or wildcards if you like in Ward and Dirrell.

Unfortunately boxing is and always has been a sport of controversy, all the way through boxing history there have been dodgy decisions, premature/late stoppages, bent referees, bent promoters, sanctioning bodies run by gangsters, certain fights not happening for whatever reason, allegations of cheating, fouling etc. etc. We just moan about it more nowadays and go "it's not like the good ol'days" in a Colin Hart sort of way when in fact it IS exactly like the so-called "good ol'days."

Everyday I see people accusing boxers of going for the money fight rather than the "legacy" fight, well I've got news for you, "legacy" doesn't put food on the table whereas money does and if you don't like it then you can lump it, it is the case, always has been the case and always will be the case.

Moaning about the way fighters fight is another one as well, boxing is a sport and sport is about winning, not looking good. If I were a pro boxer the first thing on my mind would be doing what I have to do to win and if that means stinking out the joint then so be it, then I'd take my money, have a shower, go for a pint, go for a kebab and go home for a shag. The last thing on my mind would be a load of pissheads in the crowd heckling me and moaning about me being boring.

this is the same with a lot of sports and was highlighted by the Chelsea VS Barca game last year. Chelsea played the perfect two games and used great tactics in Barcelona to stop them scoring which was within the rule but then they are then accussed of being negative and boring. The aim was to avoid losing and try and nick an away goal yet as people want to be entertained they were pissed off. Last time i looked football and boxing were sports where results is what counts and if those results come ugly so be it. Tatics are important to win a fight and when teams or fighters dont use the right ones they tend to lose badly, see Mr Hatton Vs Pacman or Barca Vs Bayan Munich as 2 good examples from last year.

Exactly, that's why boxers spend weeks in training perfecting/improving their skills etc. so that they can adapt, use different tactics rather then just standing there flat footed while throwing punches you can see coming from a mile off(Pacquiao v Hatton is a great example as you pointed out). I love watching a tear up just like everyone else infact most of my favourite fighters have been the macho, aggressive sort but I love watching pure boxers just as much.

My main gripe with boxing fans has always been with the old duffers though where modern fighters can do no right in their eyes. Also this "ducking" nonsense, "so and so ducked this guy, that guy ducked the other guy" and so on, this so-called "ducking" is called business. Boxing is a sport? Yes but it's also a business and a job for those who participate in it.

[Datsue]

I bet you were a right miserable twat in your twenties/teens

Yep, completely insufferable.

Think of a cross between Nick Cave, Roderick Usher & Mark Lanegan from the Screaming Trees (minus the talent, necrophilia & heroin, respectively).

[Counter-puncher]

that is undoubtedly the first time i have seen anyone on a boxing forum compare themselves to roderick usher. top marks

[black panther]

Good post Mark and I agree with you.

The "Super Six" isn't a good idea, it's a great idea which nobody can predict what will happen, you have established champions like Kessler and Taylor, fighters with something to prove like Froch and Abraham and the unknown fighters or wildcards if you like in Ward and Dirrell.

Unfortunately boxing is and always has been a sport of controversy, all the way through boxing history there have been dodgy decisions, premature/late stoppages, bent referees, bent promoters, sanctioning bodies run by gangsters, certain fights not happening for whatever reason, allegations of cheating, fouling etc. etc. We just moan about it more nowadays and go "it's not like the good ol'days" in a Colin Hart sort of way when in fact it IS exactly like the so-called "good ol'days."

Everyday I see people accusing boxers of going for the money fight rather than the "legacy" fight, well I've got news for you, "legacy" doesn't put food on the table whereas money does and if you don't like it then you can lump it, it is the case, always has been the case and always will be the case.

Moaning about the way fighters fight is another one as well, boxing is a sport and sport is about winning, not looking good. If I were a pro boxer the first thing on my mind would be doing what I have to do to win and if that means stinking out the joint then so be it, then I'd take my money, have a shower, go for a pint, go for a kebab and go home for a shag. The last thing on my mind would be a load of pissheads in the crowd heckling me and moaning about me being boring.

x2 . Sometimes the fans need to put themselves in a boxers position. What people need to realise is that the majority of boxers have to continue to work once their career is over. For many, boxing is all they know. So they need to earn as much as they possibly can while their skills and health are still intact - because once its gone, it never comes back. On the flipside, we(the fans) get shafted so many times its hard not to be cynical. Pull-outs, fights that fail to be made, the ridiculous situation with limited tv coverage,bogus decisions, crappy undercards....... but we have to realise most of the time it's not the boxers at fault. The blame lies with the tight-wad, mis-informed bigs wigs at tv companies, the greedy, short-sighted promoters, biased officials and the crafty managers who screw boxers for every penny their worth and would sell their own mother for a good profit.

[JDC]

I always think someone who complains about complaining is making a fool of themselves DD

[n1ebf]

If I were a pro boxer the first thing on my mind would be doing what I have to do to win and if that means stinking out the joint then so be it, then I'd take my money, have a shower, go for a pint, go for a kebab and go home for a shag. The last thing on my mind would be a load of pissheads in the crowd heckling me and moaning about me being boring.

you'd have to be called "B-Force" then.......

[black panther]

I always think someone who complains about complaining is making a fool of themselves DD

Stop complaining!