BoxRec

BIGMARK wrote:I have been watching boxing for over 25 years so nothing really shocks me anymore. I think i've seen almost everything that's right and wrong with the sport. I love talking boxing but "what the hell" we really are bunch of moaning spoilt brats who feel we own the sport.

News flash kids, Boxing has been a flawed sport since the very first bouts were staged. I cant believe fans are now moaning about the super six as this is a breath of fresh air for the sport and i would love to see the same thing through all the divisions. Yes life is far from perfect with bad decisions, ref mistakes, early stoppages and PPV but that is just sign of the times but nothing new.

Boxing is a sport of opinions but when a boxing fan does agree with another over scoring its like someone had commited a murder. There is no set in stone rules to how to score a pro fight so until there is it will be down to objective opinion which will differ from one man to the next.

Nothing is perfect in our world, we moan when a fight gets stopped early and moan when one is stopped too late. We complain about mismatches and then moan about the super six. We complain when top fighters dont face each other and when they do dont understand why its on PPV or our fighters are forced to fight at 2am.

The oversight that most of us fans have is the fact that Boxing has always been a buisness and its about what you negociate not what you deserve. The people behind the sport are in it to make money and this makes the sport very unique.

I have my good and bad times with the sport but have learnt to accept it for what it is which in my book the longest running soap opera there has ever been. Yes lets have opinions but lets not forget what boxing in general is and always has been a flawed sport which was created so folk could make money.

BIGMARK wrote:I have been watching boxing for over 25 years so nothing really shocks me anymore. I think i've seen almost everything that's right and wrong with the sport. I love talking boxing but "what the hell" we really are bunch of moaning spoilt brats who feel we own the sport.

BIGMARK wrote: 3. Its more difficult for promoters to make money so undercards will suffer and expect more mismatches

etc etc etc

WOODDDDDDDYA wrote:I've never bought into this 'Super 6 Is The Best Thing To Happen In Boxing For 20 Years'. If so why has no major TV network in Britain wanted to cover it. Where was the Froch result in the national news slots over the weekend apart from the midlands area. There's nothing wrong in moaning about how the sport can be improved and it's up to the fans to keep demanding higher standards.

oliverfennell wrote:BigMark, agree with everything you said. Boxing fans as a whole are never happy.

Further cases in point:

- Hatton makes 15 defences of a WBU belt and is criticised for stagnating. Fair point. But then David Haye comes along and fights for a world title in the second fight of his full-time heavyweight campaign and he's criticised for jumping the queue.

- Oscar de la Hoya is criticised for "picking on" the smaller Pacquiaio. Then Pacquaio wins and HE gets criticised for picking on a weight-drained fighter.

- Pacquaio is now being criticised for asking Cotto to "drain" to a catchweight, while Marquez was not criticised for exactly the same thing when fighting Mayweather (predictably, Mayweather copped the "picking on a smaller guy" flak instead - which Cotto is not copping against Pac)

- Mayweather was criticised for "ducking" a "big welterweight" in Cotto, despite going UP in weight to fight the number one light-middle instead.

- Journeymen loses dozens, sometimes hundreds, of fights, and fans hail them as the backbones of the sport (fair enough), but then Jermain Taylor suffers three stoppage defeats, all in competitive fights among the top 5 of his divisions, and people are calling for his retirement.

- Speaking of retirement, fans complain when boxers fight too long (almost all), and complain when they retire on top (Lewis ducked a Vitali rematch, Calzaghe ducked Froch/Dawson, etc)

- Fans complain about a lack of a dominant champion in competitive divisions, and then complain about a lack of competitiveness when there is a dominant champion.

- Boxers who don't trash talk are called "boring" and "uncharismatic" (e.g. Lennox Lewis), but when a boxer tries to hype a fight (e.g. David Haye) he's called "arrogant" and fans can't wait to see him get knocked out.

BIGMARK wrote:

damianhucker1 wrote:
TOTALLY AGREE AND ALL THIS DEBATING ABOUT THE FROCH FIGHT IS STIRRING MORE PUBLICITY FOR THE REST OF THE TOURNY , SO YES AGREED WE SHOULD SHUT UP AND GET ON WITH IT BUT THE DEBATES ARE GOOD FOR BOXING , AND IT IS A FORUM FOR BOXING OPINIONS AFTER ALL

a forum is about opinion but sometimes its just know all madness and ends up like a pissing contest. I am always trying to get new fans into the sport and always invite friends round for the fights but to any outsider we must come across as an arrogant bunch. This forum is generally very good but some of the stuff writen last night about the Froch fight and Primetime was just brain dead-

BIGMARK wrote:I have been watching boxing for over 25 years so nothing really shocks me anymore. I think i've seen almost everything that's right and wrong with the sport. I love talking boxing but "what the hell" we really are bunch of moaning spoilt brats who feel we own the sport.

News flash kids, Boxing has been a flawed sport since the very first bouts were staged. I cant believe fans are now moaning about the super six as this is a breath of fresh air for the sport and i would love to see the same thing through all the divisions. Yes life is far from perfect with bad decisions, ref mistakes, early stoppages and PPV but that is just sign of the times but nothing new.

Boxing is a sport of opinions but when a boxing fan does agree with another over scoring its like someone had commited a murder. There is no set in stone rules to how to score a pro fight so until there is it will be down to objective opinion which will differ from one man to the next.

Nothing is perfect in our world, we moan when a fight gets stopped early and moan when one is stopped too late. We complain about mismatches and then moan about the super six. We complain when top fighters dont face each other and when they do dont understand why its on PPV or our fighters are forced to fight at 2am. Yes it sucks not have the big fights on the BBC or ITV but that is boxings fault for over valuation of its product so PPv is better than nothing,


The oversight that most of us fans have is the fact that Boxing has always been a buisness and its about what you negociate not what you deserve. The people behind the sport are in it to make money and this makes the sport very unique.

I have my good and bad times with the sport but have learnt to accept it for what it is which in my book the longest running soap opera there has ever been. Yes lets have opinions but lets not forget what boxing in general is and always has been a flawed sport which was created so folk could make money.

oliverfennell wrote:BigMark, agree with everything you said. Boxing fans as a whole are never happy.

Further cases in point:

- Hatton makes 15 defences of a WBU belt and is criticised for stagnating. Fair point. But then David Haye comes along and fights for a world title in the second fight of his full-time heavyweight campaign and he's criticised for jumping the queue.

- Oscar de la Hoya is criticised for "picking on" the smaller Pacquiaio. Then Pacquaio wins and HE gets criticised for picking on a weight-drained fighter.

- Pacquaio is now being criticised for asking Cotto to "drain" to a catchweight, while Marquez was not criticised for exactly the same thing when fighting Mayweather (predictably, Mayweather copped the "picking on a smaller guy" flak instead - which Cotto is not copping against Pac)

- Mayweather was criticised for "ducking" a "big welterweight" in Cotto, despite going UP in weight to fight the number one light-middle instead.

- Journeymen loses dozens, sometimes hundreds, of fights, and fans hail them as the backbones of the sport (fair enough), but then Jermain Taylor suffers three stoppage defeats, all in competitive fights among the top 5 of his divisions, and people are calling for his retirement.

- Speaking of retirement, fans complain when boxers fight too long (almost all), and complain when they retire on top (Lewis ducked a Vitali rematch, Calzaghe ducked Froch/Dawson, etc)

- Fans complain about a lack of a dominant champion in competitive divisions, and then complain about a lack of competitiveness when there is a dominant champion.

- Boxers who don't trash talk are called "boring" and "uncharismatic" (e.g. Lennox Lewis), but when a boxer tries to hype a fight (e.g. David Haye) he's called "arrogant" and fans can't wait to see him get knocked out.

Flav1 wrote:

oliverfennell wrote:BigMark, agree with everything you said. Boxing fans as a whole are never happy.

Further cases in point:

- Hatton makes 15 defences of a WBU belt and is criticised for stagnating. Fair point. But then David Haye comes along and fights for a world title in the second fight of his full-time heavyweight campaign and he's criticised for jumping the queue.

- Oscar de la Hoya is criticised for "picking on" the smaller Pacquiaio. Then Pacquaio wins and HE gets criticised for picking on a weight-drained fighter.

- Pacquaio is now being criticised for asking Cotto to "drain" to a catchweight, while Marquez was not criticised for exactly the same thing when fighting Mayweather (predictably, Mayweather copped the "picking on a smaller guy" flak instead - which Cotto is not copping against Pac)

- Mayweather was criticised for "ducking" a "big welterweight" in Cotto, despite going UP in weight to fight the number one light-middle instead.

- Journeymen loses dozens, sometimes hundreds, of fights, and fans hail them as the backbones of the sport (fair enough), but then Jermain Taylor suffers three stoppage defeats, all in competitive fights among the top 5 of his divisions, and people are calling for his retirement.

- Speaking of retirement, fans complain when boxers fight too long (almost all), and complain when they retire on top (Lewis ducked a Vitali rematch, Calzaghe ducked Froch/Dawson, etc)

- Fans complain about a lack of a dominant champion in competitive divisions, and then complain about a lack of competitiveness when there is a dominant champion.

- Boxers who don't trash talk are called "boring" and "uncharismatic" (e.g. Lennox Lewis), but when a boxer tries to hype a fight (e.g. David Haye) he's called "arrogant" and fans can't wait to see him get knocked out.

This is an excellent post.

banjo wrote:Good post Mark and I agree with you.

The "Super Six" isn't a good idea, it's a great idea which nobody can predict what will happen, you have established champions like Kessler and Taylor, fighters with something to prove like Froch and Abraham and the unknown fighters or wildcards if you like in Ward and Dirrell.

Unfortunately boxing is and always has been a sport of controversy, all the way through boxing history there have been dodgy decisions, premature/late stoppages, bent referees, bent promoters, sanctioning bodies run by gangsters, certain fights not happening for whatever reason, allegations of cheating, fouling etc. etc. We just moan about it more nowadays and go "it's not like the good ol'days" in a Colin Hart sort of way when in fact it IS exactly like the so-called "good ol'days."

Everyday I see people accusing boxers of going for the money fight rather than the "legacy" fight, well I've got news for you, "legacy" doesn't put food on the table whereas money does and if you don't like it then you can lump it, it is the case, always has been the case and always will be the case.

Moaning about the way fighters fight is another one as well, boxing is a sport and sport is about winning, not looking good. If I were a pro boxer the first thing on my mind would be doing what I have to do to win and if that means stinking out the joint then so be it, then I'd take my money, have a shower, go for a pint, go for a kebab and go home for a shag. The last thing on my mind would be a load of pissheads in the crowd heckling me and moaning about me being boring.

Datsue wrote:

banjo wrote:Good post Mark and I agree with you.

The "Super Six" isn't a good idea, it's a great idea which nobody can predict what will happen, you have established champions like Kessler and Taylor, fighters with something to prove like Froch and Abraham and the unknown fighters or wildcards if you like in Ward and Dirrell.

Unfortunately boxing is and always has been a sport of controversy, all the way through boxing history there have been dodgy decisions, premature/late stoppages, bent referees, bent promoters, sanctioning bodies run by gangsters, certain fights not happening for whatever reason, allegations of cheating, fouling etc. etc. We just moan about it more nowadays and go "it's not like the good ol'days" in a Colin Hart sort of way when in fact it IS exactly like the so-called "good ol'days."

Everyday I see people accusing boxers of going for the money fight rather than the "legacy" fight, well I've got news for you, "legacy" doesn't put food on the table whereas money does and if you don't like it then you can lump it, it is the case, always has been the case and always will be the case.

Moaning about the way fighters fight is another one as well, boxing is a sport and sport is about winning, not looking good. If I were a pro boxer the first thing on my mind would be doing what I have to do to win and if that means stinking out the joint then so be it, then I'd take my money, have a shower, go for a pint, go for a kebab and go home for a shag. The last thing on my mind would be a load of pissheads in the crowd heckling me and moaning about me being boring.

Damn good post that one.

Also: I intend to watch the rest of the Super Six, even if I'd prefer if Allan Green stepped up to replace Taylor. Girlfriend & I have even been talking about Copenhagen next year FFS, but I'll still hold that Froch got beat the other night, even whilst I'm there...

Oh & I for one am getting less cynical & twisted up as I get older. Guess it helped to be a mardy bastard from the off, but people who meet me now in my thirties wouldn't believe what a miserable twat I was in my twenties/teens.

BIGMARK wrote:

banjo wrote:Good post Mark and I agree with you.

The "Super Six" isn't a good idea, it's a great idea which nobody can predict what will happen, you have established champions like Kessler and Taylor, fighters with something to prove like Froch and Abraham and the unknown fighters or wildcards if you like in Ward and Dirrell.

Unfortunately boxing is and always has been a sport of controversy, all the way through boxing history there have been dodgy decisions, premature/late stoppages, bent referees, bent promoters, sanctioning bodies run by gangsters, certain fights not happening for whatever reason, allegations of cheating, fouling etc. etc. We just moan about it more nowadays and go "it's not like the good ol'days" in a Colin Hart sort of way when in fact it IS exactly like the so-called "good ol'days."

Everyday I see people accusing boxers of going for the money fight rather than the "legacy" fight, well I've got news for you, "legacy" doesn't put food on the table whereas money does and if you don't like it then you can lump it, it is the case, always has been the case and always will be the case.

Moaning about the way fighters fight is another one as well, boxing is a sport and sport is about winning, not looking good. If I were a pro boxer the first thing on my mind would be doing what I have to do to win and if that means stinking out the joint then so be it, then I'd take my money, have a shower, go for a pint, go for a kebab and go home for a shag. The last thing on my mind would be a load of pissheads in the crowd heckling me and moaning about me being boring.

this is the same with a lot of sports and was highlighted by the Chelsea VS Barca game last year. Chelsea played the perfect two games and used great tactics in Barcelona to stop them scoring which was within the rule but then they are then accussed of being negative and boring. The aim was to avoid losing and try and nick an away goal yet as people want to be entertained they were pissed off. Last time i looked football and boxing were sports where results is what counts and if those results come ugly so be it. Tatics are important to win a fight and when teams or fighters dont use the right ones they tend to lose badly, see Mr Hatton Vs Pacman or Barca Vs Bayan Munich as 2 good examples from last year.

Counter-puncher wrote:
I bet you were a right miserable twat in your twenties/teens

banjo wrote:Good post Mark and I agree with you.

The "Super Six" isn't a good idea, it's a great idea which nobody can predict what will happen, you have established champions like Kessler and Taylor, fighters with something to prove like Froch and Abraham and the unknown fighters or wildcards if you like in Ward and Dirrell.

Unfortunately boxing is and always has been a sport of controversy, all the way through boxing history there have been dodgy decisions, premature/late stoppages, bent referees, bent promoters, sanctioning bodies run by gangsters, certain fights not happening for whatever reason, allegations of cheating, fouling etc. etc. We just moan about it more nowadays and go "it's not like the good ol'days" in a Colin Hart sort of way when in fact it IS exactly like the so-called "good ol'days."

Everyday I see people accusing boxers of going for the money fight rather than the "legacy" fight, well I've got news for you, "legacy" doesn't put food on the table whereas money does and if you don't like it then you can lump it, it is the case, always has been the case and always will be the case.

Moaning about the way fighters fight is another one as well, boxing is a sport and sport is about winning, not looking good. If I were a pro boxer the first thing on my mind would be doing what I have to do to win and if that means stinking out the joint then so be it, then I'd take my money, have a shower, go for a pint, go for a kebab and go home for a shag. The last thing on my mind would be a load of pissheads in the crowd heckling me and moaning about me being boring.

banjo wrote: If I were a pro boxer the first thing on my mind would be doing what I have to do to win and if that means stinking out the joint then so be it, then I'd take my money, have a shower, go for a pint, go for a kebab and go home for a shag. The last thing on my mind would be a load of pissheads in the crowd heckling me and moaning about me being boring.

JDC wrote:I always think someone who complains about complaining is making a fool of themselves DD