For the 1st minute & a half in the fight Wlad was the agressor, working behind his stiff left jab, then landed a short left hook which dropped the argie to his knees for the full count
McCoy dont think the argie even landed a punch in the whole round!
Klitschko wins by KO in the 1st
-
The REAL McCoy
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 280
- Joined: 30 Aug 2003, 15:54
-
thepocketrocket
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3283
- Joined: 16 Jan 2003, 06:26
-
get in the ring
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 93
- Joined: 21 Jun 2003, 06:59
-
thepocketrocket
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3283
- Joined: 16 Jan 2003, 06:26
Anyone with quick hands can expose Wlad.....adamiw wrote:dunno, but why does it matter?thepocketrocket wrote:Well that should give Wlad some confidence back, cheers McCoy...
I wonder what Vitali would have done with him??
It was a confidence booster, but he only did what he was supposed to.
Sanders will beat him if they have a rematch IMO.
I honestly could see RJJ beating him...
-
get in the ring
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 93
- Joined: 21 Jun 2003, 06:59
I'm in agreement...
I too have beleived Jones Jr. could beat Klitschko if he is 100% focused and concentrated during the 12 rounds. One lapse against Wlad, and it could be lights out.
Jones has the hand speed, foot speed and ring generalship to frustrate the hell out of Wlad, and hurt him too. Ruiz was hurt by Jones, and Klitschko CAN be hurt, although granted Roy isn't as big a puncher as Corrie Sanders.
I jyst feel Roy is so talented that whoever comes up against him...he has the tools to adapt and find a way to beat them.
If I was to say one fighter in world boxing is near unbeatable, Roy would be the only fighter I would pick.
I too have beleived Jones Jr. could beat Klitschko if he is 100% focused and concentrated during the 12 rounds. One lapse against Wlad, and it could be lights out.
Jones has the hand speed, foot speed and ring generalship to frustrate the hell out of Wlad, and hurt him too. Ruiz was hurt by Jones, and Klitschko CAN be hurt, although granted Roy isn't as big a puncher as Corrie Sanders.
I jyst feel Roy is so talented that whoever comes up against him...he has the tools to adapt and find a way to beat them.
If I was to say one fighter in world boxing is near unbeatable, Roy would be the only fighter I would pick.
-
thepocketrocket
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3283
- Joined: 16 Jan 2003, 06:26
I agree with alot of what you say GITR, Roy Jones is an incredible talent, and i think that there is a major argument that he could be top 3 of all time.
However, Roy is what? 5'10, 5'11 at most. Wlad is 6'10, and almost 250lbs. That is huge. But Wlad has this slow style. In away it's like Jawaid Khalliq!
He often stands in front of his opponent, doing nothing, as if he's considering i he should attack. Not much movement. You saw what RJJ did to Ruiz when he stood straight in front of him, Roy was too quick. BUT, Wlad is bigger than Ruiz, and quicker, and it would be hard for Roy to get in range, hit Wlad and get back out of range without getting hit.
However, Roy is what? 5'10, 5'11 at most. Wlad is 6'10, and almost 250lbs. That is huge. But Wlad has this slow style. In away it's like Jawaid Khalliq!
He often stands in front of his opponent, doing nothing, as if he's considering i he should attack. Not much movement. You saw what RJJ did to Ruiz when he stood straight in front of him, Roy was too quick. BUT, Wlad is bigger than Ruiz, and quicker, and it would be hard for Roy to get in range, hit Wlad and get back out of range without getting hit.
Couldn't of put it better...get in the ring wrote:I'm in agreement...
I too have beleived Jones Jr. could beat Klitschko if he is 100% focused and concentrated during the 12 rounds. One lapse against Wlad, and it could be lights out.
Jones has the hand speed, foot speed and ring generalship to frustrate the hell out of Wlad, and hurt him too. Ruiz was hurt by Jones, and Klitschko CAN be hurt, although granted Roy isn't as big a puncher as Corrie Sanders.
I jyst feel Roy is so talented that whoever comes up against him...he has the tools to adapt and find a way to beat them.
If I was to say one fighter in world boxing is near unbeatable, Roy would be the only fighter I would pick.
I have seen Wlad don't like people who come at him and aren't intimidated by him...
Wlad has a 'China Chin' and one lapse of concetration, we have all seen what Roy can do so Wlad would be KO'ed.....
-
get in the ring
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 93
- Joined: 21 Jun 2003, 06:59
PR,
Considering the two guys you say will rule the division have both LOST their last big fights (Wlad KO'd in 2 by Sanders, and of course Lennox stopping Vitali on a cut) I think you've stuck your neck out on the line there.
Lennox - Vitali was close sure, Vitali was leading on the cards...BUT Lennox beat him fair and square. When your eye is popping out of its socket, it kinda means you lost the fight. Vitali had his big chance to get the HW throne but failed, simple as.
Same for Wlad...who in effect lost to a 'bum' (thats what everyone was labelling the 37 year old Corrie until he beat him). Wlad showed he cannot face speed, he has a terrible defence, and cannot hold a shot...not really qualities you look for in the next 'ruler' as you put it.
Both Klitschko's are limited and have gaping flaws...but is the HW division good enough on whole to expose these? Sanders has chipped away the first part of the Klitschko myth, and I think the 2nd part will follow swiftly.
They may get a chance to 'rule' the division as you say, but I'd like to think there are at least a few better HW's than the two giant robotic Ukrainians...Lewis and Sanders have both proved they are.
Considering the two guys you say will rule the division have both LOST their last big fights (Wlad KO'd in 2 by Sanders, and of course Lennox stopping Vitali on a cut) I think you've stuck your neck out on the line there.
Lennox - Vitali was close sure, Vitali was leading on the cards...BUT Lennox beat him fair and square. When your eye is popping out of its socket, it kinda means you lost the fight. Vitali had his big chance to get the HW throne but failed, simple as.
Same for Wlad...who in effect lost to a 'bum' (thats what everyone was labelling the 37 year old Corrie until he beat him). Wlad showed he cannot face speed, he has a terrible defence, and cannot hold a shot...not really qualities you look for in the next 'ruler' as you put it.
Both Klitschko's are limited and have gaping flaws...but is the HW division good enough on whole to expose these? Sanders has chipped away the first part of the Klitschko myth, and I think the 2nd part will follow swiftly.
They may get a chance to 'rule' the division as you say, but I'd like to think there are at least a few better HW's than the two giant robotic Ukrainians...Lewis and Sanders have both proved they are.
A Bum that Beat Holyfield and Kirk Johson, a bum that was World Champion...thepocketrocket wrote:On this cretinous not im off to bed, RJJ is not beating Wlad, RJJ is not beating Sanders, Ruiz is a bum and Jones knew that...
Wlad and Vitali will rule the Heavies, we should just get used to it...
he was probably the worst World Champion around but certainly not a push over...
Roy taught Ruiz how to box and could outskill Wlad in a similar way altho' we all agree that Wlad is a better boxer than 'The Quietman'...
Roy wasn't stretched atall against Ruiz and is capable of much more...
-
thepocketrocket
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3283
- Joined: 16 Jan 2003, 06:26
Wlad gets knocked out once and he is chinny. Reality check, just cos you are knocked out doesnt mean you are chinny. LL has been sparked twice and he never got up, has he got a glass jaw?? It took balls for Wlad to get up, its how he rebounds that counts.
Also Wlad was underprepared, yet you cut him no slack, yet when LL gets beat your all crying he was underprepared, you are all hypocrits on this issue..
No-one has been exposed just yet, lets take a long term view of this
Also Wlad was underprepared, yet you cut him no slack, yet when LL gets beat your all crying he was underprepared, you are all hypocrits on this issue..
No-one has been exposed just yet, lets take a long term view of this
wladimir needs to be more aggressive in fights, allot of recent fights I have seen he has took his time and looked open to punches, and sanders found a way,
imo wladimir is better than vitiali,
Wladimir has time on his side and he will be a heavyweight champion of the world sooner or later,
I don’t know where wladimir will go from here, he may take some more soft fights or he will fight a top 20 fighter at the end of the year.
Chris
imo wladimir is better than vitiali,
Wladimir has time on his side and he will be a heavyweight champion of the world sooner or later,
I don’t know where wladimir will go from here, he may take some more soft fights or he will fight a top 20 fighter at the end of the year.
Chris
-
get in the ring
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 93
- Joined: 21 Jun 2003, 06:59
Sure Wladimir get's knocked out once and he's chinny. There's no way you can say his chin is granite. He got sparked out in 2 rounds by a 37 year old journeyman HW who many thought was just coming for the pay day.
He was down what 2 times in the opening 3 minutes? And down heavily too. He couldn't cope with Sanders handspeed, he couldn't cope with the aggressive nature of his attacks, and he certainly couldn't cope withe power.
If Wladimir came in under prepared, then that's another black mark in my book for his claim to rule the division. He was a WBO champ, on the verge of a shot at Lennox Lewis...and he comes in underprepared for the warm up bout against a 37 year old??? Nah, I don't buy it, and if he did he should be dissapointed in himself.
I watched the Sanders - Klitschko fight again the other day...and seriously got a feeling that if anyone was underprepared it was Sanders. I'm not sure what shape he usually looks in when he fights, but he didn't have any muscle defintion and looked slightly over his normal fighting weight.
Again, Sanders was labelled a journeyman goinng in, and he simply destroyed Klitschko...and more importantly showed the rest of the leading Heavyweights how it can be done.
Yes Lennox has been startched a couple of times. But let's compare the manner of the defeats. Against Rahman and McCall, Lennox switched off and paid for it...there was no preceeding warnings just a big home run shot that flattened him.
Klitschko - Sanders was an emphatic 2 round assault. Sanders struck fear into Klitschko, showed everyone how to fight the big man and just destroyed him in double quick time.
Psychologically it will be much harder for Klitschko to recover...and to be honest I don't think he's got it in him to do so. We shall see.
He was down what 2 times in the opening 3 minutes? And down heavily too. He couldn't cope with Sanders handspeed, he couldn't cope with the aggressive nature of his attacks, and he certainly couldn't cope withe power.
If Wladimir came in under prepared, then that's another black mark in my book for his claim to rule the division. He was a WBO champ, on the verge of a shot at Lennox Lewis...and he comes in underprepared for the warm up bout against a 37 year old??? Nah, I don't buy it, and if he did he should be dissapointed in himself.
I watched the Sanders - Klitschko fight again the other day...and seriously got a feeling that if anyone was underprepared it was Sanders. I'm not sure what shape he usually looks in when he fights, but he didn't have any muscle defintion and looked slightly over his normal fighting weight.
Again, Sanders was labelled a journeyman goinng in, and he simply destroyed Klitschko...and more importantly showed the rest of the leading Heavyweights how it can be done.
Yes Lennox has been startched a couple of times. But let's compare the manner of the defeats. Against Rahman and McCall, Lennox switched off and paid for it...there was no preceeding warnings just a big home run shot that flattened him.
Klitschko - Sanders was an emphatic 2 round assault. Sanders struck fear into Klitschko, showed everyone how to fight the big man and just destroyed him in double quick time.
Psychologically it will be much harder for Klitschko to recover...and to be honest I don't think he's got it in him to do so. We shall see.
-
thepocketrocket
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3283
- Joined: 16 Jan 2003, 06:26
GITR, you are talking drivel..
Lets get this straight, the only people who thought Sanders was a journeyman were ignorant people who dont know boxing from their ass., all of us who had seen him realised he punched like a bastard, was quick and dangerous. We expcted Wladimir to weather the storm and hit him (a la Rahman) when he was tired.
Also you say he was beaten up over two rounds. This showed he got up from a punch LL wouldve died from yet you say the fact he went down a number of times proves his chin is bad?? Would it have been better if he was sparko, would his chin have been in question then?? Once again HE GOT UP from. He may not have Larry Holmes' punch resistance but to write him off as chinny is pathetic.
The piece de resistance in your post has to be the fact that you dont believe he was underprepared(mentaly and physically) he had too much to lose....
Didnt Lennox have to much to lose when he lost to Rahman, a fight with Tyson??
GITR, your post is full of crap, stick to Bernard Dunne
Lets get this straight, the only people who thought Sanders was a journeyman were ignorant people who dont know boxing from their ass., all of us who had seen him realised he punched like a bastard, was quick and dangerous. We expcted Wladimir to weather the storm and hit him (a la Rahman) when he was tired.
Also you say he was beaten up over two rounds. This showed he got up from a punch LL wouldve died from yet you say the fact he went down a number of times proves his chin is bad?? Would it have been better if he was sparko, would his chin have been in question then?? Once again HE GOT UP from. He may not have Larry Holmes' punch resistance but to write him off as chinny is pathetic.
The piece de resistance in your post has to be the fact that you dont believe he was underprepared(mentaly and physically) he had too much to lose....
Didnt Lennox have to much to lose when he lost to Rahman, a fight with Tyson??GITR, your post is full of crap, stick to Bernard Dunne
Last edited by thepocketrocket on 31 Aug 2003, 05:57, edited 1 time in total.
-
get in the ring
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 93
- Joined: 21 Jun 2003, 06:59
I never realised you were such a big fan of the giant Ukrainians PR,
Anyway...the point about the manner of defeat suffered at the hands of Sanders, wasn't about the number of times he hit the deck. Granted he showed great heart to get up time and time again. But, I was simply comparing the manner of defeat to the ones suffered by Lennox Lewis. You surely have to agree that Klitschko got a long, gruelling drubbing against Sanders, he wasn't just hit with one lucky punch.
I don't think he has the makeup to get over a shocker like that, and mentally I think he'll be seriously effected by it.
You talk of Sanders - Klitschko as if everyone believed it was some kind of 50;50 megafight. Don't make me laugh. No one picked Sanders to win, and that's a bloody fact. Everyone thought the 37 year old veteran was out of his depth and would be crushed by the younger man. Sanders was old, faded and extremely inactive, he was there to fall over, let's not cover that fact up. He was there to make Klitschko looked good in his home town, it never happened.
The thing is PR, Lennox can make excuses for the Rahman defeats. He was old, couldn't handle the fighting in SA, he was bloody rich!!! You mention Tyson, so what? Lennox is one of the richest sportsman alive, great if the Tyson fight came off, but don't pretend he NEEDED the fight to get some money in. Lennox had been in the sport for many years and had got his well earned dough when he fought Rahman. He was coming towards the end of his reign, and he fought and most importantly prepared like it.
Klitschko had just signed a big money contract with HBO, and was seen as the heir apparent to Lennox Lewis. He built up a great fan base thanks to clever match making and destructive performances...but then nearly threw it all away by UNDERPREPARING as you say, why did he do that? The guy had everything on a plate...not signs of a HW ruler IMO.
I accept the fact that both Klitschko's have a great shot at becoming champions somewhere down the line, mainly due to the quality, or lack of in the HW division. These two are huge for HW's and with 18 stone of muscle, they have a great shot at any HW...but that still doesn't mean I rate them as fighters.
Anyway...the point about the manner of defeat suffered at the hands of Sanders, wasn't about the number of times he hit the deck. Granted he showed great heart to get up time and time again. But, I was simply comparing the manner of defeat to the ones suffered by Lennox Lewis. You surely have to agree that Klitschko got a long, gruelling drubbing against Sanders, he wasn't just hit with one lucky punch.
I don't think he has the makeup to get over a shocker like that, and mentally I think he'll be seriously effected by it.
You talk of Sanders - Klitschko as if everyone believed it was some kind of 50;50 megafight. Don't make me laugh. No one picked Sanders to win, and that's a bloody fact. Everyone thought the 37 year old veteran was out of his depth and would be crushed by the younger man. Sanders was old, faded and extremely inactive, he was there to fall over, let's not cover that fact up. He was there to make Klitschko looked good in his home town, it never happened.
The thing is PR, Lennox can make excuses for the Rahman defeats. He was old, couldn't handle the fighting in SA, he was bloody rich!!! You mention Tyson, so what? Lennox is one of the richest sportsman alive, great if the Tyson fight came off, but don't pretend he NEEDED the fight to get some money in. Lennox had been in the sport for many years and had got his well earned dough when he fought Rahman. He was coming towards the end of his reign, and he fought and most importantly prepared like it.
Klitschko had just signed a big money contract with HBO, and was seen as the heir apparent to Lennox Lewis. He built up a great fan base thanks to clever match making and destructive performances...but then nearly threw it all away by UNDERPREPARING as you say, why did he do that? The guy had everything on a plate...not signs of a HW ruler IMO.
I accept the fact that both Klitschko's have a great shot at becoming champions somewhere down the line, mainly due to the quality, or lack of in the HW division. These two are huge for HW's and with 18 stone of muscle, they have a great shot at any HW...but that still doesn't mean I rate them as fighters.
-
thepocketrocket
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3283
- Joined: 16 Jan 2003, 06:26
Im not a huge fan, I just think they both have talent...
Nobody thought it was a 50-50 fight, I just take exception to you saying Sanders was a journeyman, everyone knew he had been avoided and his job on Rahman only increased that. It was still Wlads fight to lose but Sanders was better than McCall!!
We will have to agree to disagree on this one. Actually im not even sure we disagree, Wlad may well be ruined, i just want more time to evaluate it instead of jumping in after a shock defeat....
Nobody thought it was a 50-50 fight, I just take exception to you saying Sanders was a journeyman, everyone knew he had been avoided and his job on Rahman only increased that. It was still Wlads fight to lose but Sanders was better than McCall!!
We will have to agree to disagree on this one. Actually im not even sure we disagree, Wlad may well be ruined, i just want more time to evaluate it instead of jumping in after a shock defeat....
-
get in the ring
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 93
- Joined: 21 Jun 2003, 06:59
Let's call a truce on the whole thing then!!!Fact is...neither of us really know. Until Klitschko gets back in the ring with Sanders, there will be numerous questions he has to answer.
He has all the physical attributes to be the heir apparent, but I just question his mental attitude. But as I say, we'll just have to wait and see.
Let's talk Bernard Dunne...so much more straight forward
-
thepocketrocket
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3283
- Joined: 16 Jan 2003, 06:26
-
get in the ring
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 93
- Joined: 21 Jun 2003, 06:59
PR,
What do you think of this idea for Wladimir's next fight
Kirk Johnson
Kirk needs a way back towards a title shot, and if he could beat Wlad he would have earnt it. Kirk has speed (like Sanders) and will throw two's and three's, which for Klitschko would act as good expereince when going for the Sanders rematch (WHo is also fast handed).
Johnson for all his flaws is one of the fastest HW's around, and would give Klitschko a few headaches in that department.
If not Johnson just yet, why not Mo Harris? Just been beaten by Fres Oquendo, and is a very good, fast hitter on his day, very tall too and with give Klitschko a few questions to answer.
I'd expect Wlad to win both those fights, but it would allow him to adjust to handspeed and quickness which I think he needs to do before going into the Sanders rematch.
What do you think of this idea for Wladimir's next fight
Kirk Johnson
Kirk needs a way back towards a title shot, and if he could beat Wlad he would have earnt it. Kirk has speed (like Sanders) and will throw two's and three's, which for Klitschko would act as good expereince when going for the Sanders rematch (WHo is also fast handed).
Johnson for all his flaws is one of the fastest HW's around, and would give Klitschko a few headaches in that department.
If not Johnson just yet, why not Mo Harris? Just been beaten by Fres Oquendo, and is a very good, fast hitter on his day, very tall too and with give Klitschko a few questions to answer.
I'd expect Wlad to win both those fights, but it would allow him to adjust to handspeed and quickness which I think he needs to do before going into the Sanders rematch.
-
thepocketrocket
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3283
- Joined: 16 Jan 2003, 06:26
I like the idea of Kirk but Corrie would be my pick...
Wlad is still rated highly and if you are destined for the top you have to be willing to fight the likes of Sanders who although a huge danger is not championship class. Wlad needs this blot off his record, trawling round the Ruiz's and Johnsons of this world will have no real benefit...and none of the doubters(such as yourself) will give him any credit
Wlad is still rated highly and if you are destined for the top you have to be willing to fight the likes of Sanders who although a huge danger is not championship class. Wlad needs this blot off his record, trawling round the Ruiz's and Johnsons of this world will have no real benefit...and none of the doubters(such as yourself) will give him any credit
-
Dave1armedTua
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 204
- Joined: 01 Apr 2003, 22:29
1. Beating Moli is the biggest joke ever. My 70 year old grandpa has a better build and can punch quicker.
2. The Klitschko's are not gods. If beating the Hell out of orphans from obscure countries is considerd one of the prerequisites of godhood, the division would be full of them.
3. Ruiz is Puerto Rico's version of Michael Grant. Don't expect anything out of him ever again.
4. RJJ is a fantastic boxer, no denying it. However, there are VERY few guys in the heavy's that he can beat, that is why he is moving back down to light heavy. He came up to make "history", make money, and get even more PR time. That way, when he goes back down to a divison he will be dominating till he is 40, he can get even MORE money per fight.
5. Why is this topic in the British forum?
2. The Klitschko's are not gods. If beating the Hell out of orphans from obscure countries is considerd one of the prerequisites of godhood, the division would be full of them.
3. Ruiz is Puerto Rico's version of Michael Grant. Don't expect anything out of him ever again.
4. RJJ is a fantastic boxer, no denying it. However, there are VERY few guys in the heavy's that he can beat, that is why he is moving back down to light heavy. He came up to make "history", make money, and get even more PR time. That way, when he goes back down to a divison he will be dominating till he is 40, he can get even MORE money per fight.
5. Why is this topic in the British forum?