Prime Holyfield(early 90's) vs Prime Tyson(80's Tyson)

[BoxBuzz]

Holyfield ALWAYS had his number. He was not intimidated, and could intimidate back. A similar mental (though not similar physical/style) set of dynamics as Foreman Frazier. I'm not saying he outpowers Mike, I am saying that Mike is halfway defeated before it gets started because he can not depend on any mental or psychological advantage over Evander. Evander had Mike "thinking" about his game. Not good for Mike, thinking is not his strong suit.

Far too little credit is given in the forum regarding factors other than pure skill power and speed. Much of boxing is accomplished in the noggin and in the realm of hard to define psychological relationship dynamics. This is often where these misunderstood anomalies take place.

Had I known before the Tyson/Douglas fight just what was taking place in the lives of each of these fighters, I would have made a fortune on that fight. It was predictable, taking into account nothing more than Tyson's lack of commitment, combined with Douglas's typical style, and determined focus in the wake of what might in certain cases be a distracting personal issue. In Douglas's case it became a welding torch, manifesting in a forged iron will. I understand those close to Douglas recognized it.

[Controversial]

Its a shame the Tyson-Holyfield fight happened after Tyson had been beaten by Douglas. I don't think Tyson was ever the same after that defeat, his confidence and air of invincibility had gone.

Even so Holyfield had the measure of him, and I can see Holyfield getting a points win or late stoppage over the undefeated Tyson. I think it would had been a harder fight for Holyfield but ultimately with him winning.

[BoxBuzz]

Its a shame the Tyson-Holyfield fight happened after Tyson had been beaten by Douglas. I don't think Tyson was ever the same after that defeat, his confidence and air of invincibility had gone.

Even so Holyfield had the measure of him, and I can see Holyfield getting a points win or late stoppage over the undefeated Tyson. I think it would had been a harder fight for Holyfield but ultimately with him winning.

Foreman and Holyfield seemed to get Mikes attention even before the loss. And might have always posed some problems for him. Not for the pure skill issues, but for his attitude toward them. Foreman had been built up to be Superman to Mike, and he would have had to shake that off and be total business. Maybe he could maybe he couldn't but George would have an edge with Mike "thinking" about what Cus had created in Mike's mind.

Also Holyfield and Mike had some sort of personal exchange between them away from the ring that I heard may have put doubts in Mike's mind. Every weakness Mike had was upstairs. And you just can't discount that when attempting to predict these things. If Mike could have been granted a divorce from his noggin, he might still be a force today.

[meade95]

Two ATGs, without question. In their primes they could/would have been champions in any era I believe. Though match-up wise....I think Tyson was made to order for Holyfield. Always was, always would be. 8 out of 10 times I see Holyfield winning by UD or more than likely mid to late round TKO.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

It would have been a more exciting fight and Tyson would have taken a worse beating. Evander would rip off 5 and 6 punch combos in those days instead of conserving energy. Holy by TKO somewhere between 8-10.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Tyson stops him. Unpopular, but it's my belief.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

It's more unlikely than it is unpopular. Most just have a difficult time shrugging off the one sided nature of their fights. And with good reason, i don't think mike would win once out of 100 fights. And a big reason is physical strength. Evander was stronger than Mike and he would always rough him up inside. 205, 212 or 217, makes no difference and once Mike is going backwards he is useless.

[Goodnight, Irene]

What's Up Good Irene, Hahahaha. Me and Good Irene, just had our primE rumble hehe.
Didn't Tyson defeat Trevor Berbick and he defeated Muhammad Ali.
hehehe I don't know. I reckon if Cus, the trainer for Mike Tyson was still alive and if kevin rooney wasn't
fired and didn't go to Don King, he would've been Undefeated I reckon but still hard for me to judge
cause Evander can take one hell of a punch and clever at outboxing another fighter.

You're a moron, & undoubtedly a kid. I would not be surprised if you are Chiricahua in disguise. Don't bother with a rebuttal --- you're going on my Ignore List.

[Rocky Balboa]

Its a shame the Tyson-Holyfield fight happened after Tyson had been beaten by Douglas. I don't think Tyson was ever the same after that defeat, his confidence and air of invincibility had gone.

Even so Holyfield had the measure of him, and I can see Holyfield getting a points win or late stoppage over the undefeated Tyson. I think it would had been a harder fight for Holyfield but ultimately with him winning.

Maybe Tyson was not the same fighter (mentally) after the defeat to Douglas, but I do think he was physically. After the loss, Tyson bounced back with a first round KO of Henry Tillman & the result was expected. However, after, Tyson defeated Alex Stewart in Dec 1990, by first round KO. We should remember Stewart gave Holyfied hell some fifteen motnhs earlier, before Holyfield prevailed. Tyson then beat Ruddock twice. While there was criticism for the two victories over Ruddock, Tyson broke Ruddock down in the first fight & broek his jaw in the rematch on route to a unanimous decision.

If Tyson-Holyfield had happened before Tyson went to Prison, I would still say Tyson was good enough to prevail. No matter how good or talented you are, you go away from your profession for four years, then you will no be as good at it upon your return!

[Controversial]

Maybe Tyson was not the same fighter (mentally) after the defeat to Douglas, but I do think he was physically. Tyson defeated Alex Stewart in Dec 1990, by first round KO. We should remember Stewart gave Holyfied hell some fifteen motnhs earlier, before Holyfield prevailed.

No matter how good or talented you are, you go away from your profession for four years, then you will no be as good at it upon your return!

I would argue that the mental side is just as important as the physical side in boxing. Physically almost anyone can get into 'shape', look at Holyfield, even at 47 he has a better body than blokes half his age. But he is totally shot.

Styles make fights, even a broken Tyson had the punch power to knock anyone out. Holyfield was never known for knocking people out quickly. For Tyson the problems started when people didn't fall over, that when he started to fall apart.

Just makes you wonder what Ali would have done if he hadn't missed 3 years in the ring, years when he would have been in his peak physically (aged 25-28)

[Robinson]

I do not believe that Holy had Mikes number, he had the goods to beat
Tyson in any encounter sure. That is why this is such a fun match up
to envision.

I see Holy having a tough time with Tyson had they have met in 1991.
BUT the 1988 Tyson against the 1991 Holyfield, it is hard...but I can
see Tyson winning.

A weeks notice, straight from rehab Cooper managed to give Holy a
life and death encounter, Tyson never experienced this up until a
peak Douglas upset him.
Tyson hit harder, more often and with more frequency than Cooper,
Tyson was harder to hit, had better stamina and had a better 'jaw'.

Holy was accurate, fast punching, mobile (when he chose to be), had
near perfect fundamentals, a massive dose of self belief and determination..

What we have is a great fight....BUT...I am going to er slightly on the
side of Tyson in this one.

[Goodnight, Irene]

In the same kind of trouble as he was against Cooper, I'm confident Tyson would've finished Holyfield where Cooper could not.

Could Tyson put him in that position? I believe he could, yes.

[Robinson]

I think so too GI.

Its easy to argue that Holy took Cooper lightly etc etc.

But I honestly think that Holy struggles with a shorter pressure
type fighter.
Qawi for an example.

Holy would be under and into Holy. And Holy would no doubt
stand his ground and look for his own hard shots. Would make
for great viewing but not for a good Holy win.

This is also why I think Holy vs Frazier would be such an
exciting fight.

[Goodnight, Irene]

It's not that I'd be confident Tyson would best him --- & Holyfield did whip Cooper, for the most part. What I can't believe is the unthinking, unchallenged thought that the best Tyson doesn't stand a chance against a peak Holyfield. I really can't understand that at all. It's a dangerous fight.

I lean with the man whose fast hands & explosive power play well against a hittable opponent who absolutely loves to go to war. I will say this --- if anyone could fight that kind of suicidal gameplan & pull it off against Tyson, Holyfield would be the man to do it.