Joe Frazier Vs

[ThatOne]

Earnie Shavers

Ron Lyle

Sonny Liston

Floyd Patterson

Archie Moore

Ezzzard Charles

Joe Walcott

Joe Louis

Jack Johnson

[BoxBuzz]

I don't think there is a fighter Joe coudn't whup given just a bit of things goin' his way. Liston, Foreman and Ali would split a few with him.

[dempseyfire]

Loses to Liston, Johnson and Louis . . beats the rest.

[ThatOne]

I don't think there is a fighter Joe coudn't whup given just a bit of things goin' his way. Liston, Foreman and Ali would split a few with him.

He wins one out of four or five against Ali. If Frazier fought Foreman one thousand times Foreman would beat him one thousand times. He had Joe's number!

[Goodnight, Irene]

Frazier-Shavers

Shavers didn't have what it took. Not tough enough, it's just that simple. He didn't have Foreman's intensity or two-fisted assault, & wouldn't be able to finish if --- if he got his man in trouble. I say one of Frazier's left hooks puts him on queer street early, & Shavers loses the fight right there, never really recovering. Frazier ends it in four.

Frazier TKO4 Shavers

Frazier-Lyle

A stronger, more even-handed fighter than Shavers, with big power of his own, & more durability. Boxed a little when he should've been slugging, & had a habit of dropping his hands. Not one of Frazier's more gruelling nights, but not an easy one, either. Lyle's petrol tank lets him down in the end. He doesn't budge from his corner as the bell rings for the tenth.

Frazier TKO9 Lyle

Frazier-Liston

Watch through your fingers. No one runs head-long onto that jab (& the hook behind it, not to mention the overhand right --- perfect for a low fighter) & survives it. It lasts a little longer than the Jamaican massacre, & has fewer knockdowns, but the outcome is never in serious doubt.

Liston TKO4 Frazier

Frazier-Patterson

I think Patterson's handspeed does give Frazier problems --- I really do. However, this is a fight where D'Amato & the pro-Patterson contingent of the arena need to hold their breath, awaiting the punch which will send their man, if not out, then on his way. It comes in the fourth, with Patterson hitting the deck. Two more knockdowns in the sixth &, to Patterson's chagrin, the referee pulls him out of there. I think he's competitive in spurts with Frazier.

Frazier TKO6 Patterson

Frazier-Moore

As much as anything, Moore ran into troubled waters with the similar Marciano because of work-rate. He gets no breaks against Frazier, either, who did some things better than Marciano did. I have to think it's a question of volume. Moore was one tough nut to crack, & he'd hang in there, after sweeping the early rounds (to the surprise of some), but a fight with Frazier is a fight 'till the death...usually, the death of his adversary. This one won't be an exception.

Frazier TKO8 Moore

Frazier-Charles

This one is trickier. Charles was quicker & more versatile than Moore, & he could take it when he had to, too. I still think this is Frazier's fight over fifteen gruelling rounds, but over ten or twelve, it's getting close on those scorecards. I have to think Charles can't quite make fifteen, not against Frazier's body assault.

Frazier TKO13 Charles

Joe Walcott

Walcott hasn't the durability to make it. He did a number on Marciano for a while, & that, when he was past his peak (though, to be fair to Marciano, he did find some vintage form that night). Frazier's quicker with his hands & similarly damaging with his punches as Marciano, & probably has better footwork. Walcott had the tools to win, & perhaps even would in a twelve-rounder (maybe one from three or four), but I question his ability to survive the war. Charles had him down, among others. I think Frazier's left hooks gets him in the end, after the bodywork slows him.

Frazier TKO11 Walcott

Frazier-Louis

Not a great fight for Frazier. Here's my problem --- Louis gets off first, with faster hands & a greater wingspan. I just can't pick against Louis in a fight where I think he's going to get off first. He kills anyone in history in that scenario. Chappy would've known Frazier was vulnerable early, & prepped Louis accordingly for a first-round blitz. Frazier never really recovers from the two knockdowns in round one, & is just battered at the end of the fourth. Louis drops him hard in the fifth, &, after wobbling him into the corner shortly thereafter, a bruised & swollen Frazier is pulled from the fight by the referee.

Louis TKO5 Frazier

Frazier-Johnson

Ties Frazier in knots at times, & finds a home for his under-rated straight right hand, but really never saw anything like the pressure Frazier brings, & wilts accordingly. Great fight in spurts --- boring in others, as Johnson attempts to neutralise Frazier's buzzsaw assault with wrestling tactics. A left hook in the eleventh puts paid to that.

Frazier TKO11 Johnson

A favourable record of 7-2-0, with 7 KO's

[jezzamundo]

I was going to post my own, but I think I'll just go with yours, GI, no disagreements there. Johnson is a pick-em fight for me, could go either way.
Oh, and it's 7-2-0.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Never was good with numbers

Some good fights there, Jezz.

[Mr E]

Earnie Shavers

Ron Lyle

Sonny Liston

Floyd Patterson

Archie Moore

Ezzzard Charles

Joe Walcott

Joe Louis

Jack Johnson

I think Frazier beats Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, and Floyd Patterson every time.

Ron Lyle and Earnie Shavers might pull off an upset say 1 time in every 10 fights. Maybe 1 in every 20.

For different reasons, I think he goes about 50-50 against Jack Johnson and Sonny Liston.

I think Joe Louis beats him pretty much every time.

[yancey]

I don't think there is a fighter Joe coudn't whup given just a bit of things goin' his way. Liston, Foreman and Ali would split a few with him.

Agreed.

Head to head, for a relatively brief few years, Smokin' Joe would be one of the most dangerous heavies in history.

[Collins2000]

I don't think there is a fighter Joe coudn't whup given just a bit of things goin' his way. Liston, Foreman and Ali would split a few with him.

Agreed.

Head to head, for a relatively brief few years, Smokin' Joe would be one of the most dangerous heavies in history.

Just keep him away from Foreman.

[yancey]

I don't think there is a fighter Joe coudn't whup given just a bit of things goin' his way. Liston, Foreman and Ali would split a few with him.

Agreed.

Head to head, for a relatively brief few years, Smokin' Joe would be one of the most dangerous heavies in history.

Just keep him away from Foreman.

Good Lord, you can see the flab on Joe's mid-section.

He really lost his edge after '71.

Ongoing medical issues, too. Should have taken Durham's advice to retire.

[yancey]

Frazier was, imo, about as pure a warrior as I ever saw in the ring.

Even when he lost the title, he went out like a lion.

He KEPT getting up against a hellacious puncher throwing his best.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Agreed.

Head to head, for a relatively brief few years, Smokin' Joe would be one of the most dangerous heavies in history.

Just keep him away from Foreman.

Good Lord, you can see the flab on Joe's mid-section.

He really lost his edge after '71.

Ongoing medical issues, too. Should have taken Durham's advice to retire.

Puh-lease. Lost his, "edge?" He almost lost his fvckin' head.

Joe don't make excuses for it.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Frazier was, imo, about as pure a warrior as I ever saw in the ring.

Even when he lost the title, he went out like a lion.

He KEPT getting up against a hellacious puncher throwing his best.

True, true & true.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Can't wait for the next series of The Biggest Loser. Do you think they might ask a contestant to shed the HEALTH-COMPROMISING, HEART-STRAINING, EIGHT POUNDS Frazier carried into the ring in 1973, surplus to what he weighed for his greatest ever performance, in 1971?

Too tall an order for an everyman, perhaps?

[yancey]

Can't wait for the next series of The Biggest Loser. Do you think they might ask a contestant to shed the HEALTH-COMPROMISING, HEART-STRAINING, EIGHT POUNDS Frazier carried into the ring in 1973, surplus to what he weighed for his greatest ever performance, in 1971?

Too tall an order for an everyman, perhaps?

The 8 pound weight gain, or whatever is was, is important not only from a physical standpoint but even more so as an indication that Frazier was not nearly as sharp and ready for war as he once was.

He and his camp admittedly took GF lightly.

[Collins2000]

Just don't let Joe anywhere near Foreman.

[Collins2000]

Or your theory fails

[TheGreatA]

Just don't let Joe anywhere near Foreman.

Solid proof that Frazier was far from optimal shape against George Foreman.

[Collins2000]

Just don't let Joe anywhere near Foreman.

Solid proof that Frazier was far from optimal shape against George Foreman.

Just keep him away from George and the fantasy can continue.

[Collins2000]

NY Daily News

In his dressing room, fighting back the tears, Joe Frazier tried to explain defeat for the first time in his life. He spoke through a mouth gashed deeply in the right corner below the lower lip.

"I completely underestimated him," Joe said. "He is much stronger than I thought; hits much harder than I thought."

Asked if the Ali brawl of almost two years ago, a slugfest considered by many to have been a Pyrrhic victory, had softened him up for Foreman, Frazier said, "No, I don't think so. I felt ready. I just couldn't get in close with his pushing tactics."

[yancey]

Just don't let Joe anywhere near Foreman.

Solid proof that Frazier was far from optimal shape against George Foreman.

Collins unwittingly is making my point.

Keep it up, boy.

[yancey]

NY Daily News

In his dressing room, fighting back the tears, Joe Frazier tried to explain defeat for the first time in his life. He spoke through a mouth gashed deeply in the right corner below the lower lip.

"I completely underestimated him," Joe said. "He is much stronger than I thought; hits much harder than I thought."

Asked if the Ali brawl of almost two years ago, a slugfest considered by many to have been a Pyrrhic victory, had softened him up for Foreman, Frazier said, "No, I don't think so. I felt ready. I just couldn't get in close with his pushing tactics."

Interesting.

As mentioned previously and confirmed by the Frazier comments, he and his camp definitely took GF lightly.

"I just couldn't get in close with his pushing tactics."

So true.

Mercante let GF get away with murder.

[Collins2000]

NY Daily News

In his dressing room, fighting back the tears, Joe Frazier tried to explain defeat for the first time in his life. He spoke through a mouth gashed deeply in the right corner below the lower lip.

"I completely underestimated him," Joe said. "He is much stronger than I thought; hits much harder than I thought."

Asked if the Ali brawl of almost two years ago, a slugfest considered by many to have been a Pyrrhic victory, had softened him up for Foreman, Frazier said, "No, I don't think so. I felt ready. I just couldn't get in close with his pushing tactics."

Interesting.

As mentioned previously and confirmed by the Frazier comments, he and his camp definitely took GF lightly.

"I just couldn't get in close with his pushing tactics."

So true.

Mercante let GF get away with murder.

For fairness I posted the whole quote.

I see you just repeated the bits that back your agenda.

Good work

[yancey]

NY Daily News

In his dressing room, fighting back the tears, Joe Frazier tried to explain defeat for the first time in his life. He spoke through a mouth gashed deeply in the right corner below the lower lip.

"I completely underestimated him," Joe said. "He is much stronger than I thought; hits much harder than I thought."

Asked if the Ali brawl of almost two years ago, a slugfest considered by many to have been a Pyrrhic victory, had softened him up for Foreman, Frazier said, "No, I don't think so. I felt ready. I just couldn't get in close with his pushing tactics."

I do disagree with one of Frazier's thoughts.

The FOTC took a great deal out of Joe (compounded by medical issues before that fight, largely unknown to the public) and he was NEVER the same fighter after 3/71.

He rose to the occasion one last time in Manila, but he was not close to the fighter of '67-'70.