Rocky Marciano and the"Goozle Punch"(1954)

[Brutu]

I just came across something interesting in an old Sports illustrated article from Feb.5.1973.
The setting is the gym George Foreman was working out in in Jamacia before the fight with Frazier.

"Dick Sadler and Drew Bundini Brown began talking about the hardest punches they had ever seen thrown.
Both of them agreed that one of them was Rocky Marciano's hit on Ezzard Charles in their last fight-a blow,
as Bundini described it,that landed under"the goozle pipe....which swole up so the neck and chin became the same".

[ThatOne]

I just came across something interesting in an old Sports illustrated article from Feb.5.1973.
The setting is the gym George Foreman was working out in in Jamacia before the fight with Frazier.

"Dick Sadler and Drew Bundini Brown began talking about the hardest punches they had ever seen thrown.
Both of them agreed that one of them was Rocky Marciano's hit on Ezzard Charles in their last fight-a blow,
as Bundini described it,that landed under"the goozle pipe....which swole up so the neck and chin became the same".

Drew Brown had to be the most idiosyncratic man in the history of boxing but imagine to be in the camps of Ray Robinson and Muhammad Ali. His hometown was Sanford, Florida which I have lived near my entire life.

[Brutu]

Is there any clear evidence that he was ever with the Sugar Ray Robinson camp?
Angelo Dundee claims in his recent autobiography Bundinii Brown did not even know how to put a boxing glove on properly
when Ali asked that he join the camp.
I remember reading somewhere that no could remember what his experience with the fighters had been before .
He was memorable in the original SHAFT(1971)

[ThatOne]

He was part of Sugar Ray Robinson's entourage before he met Ali. He was Ali's alter ego. He didn't know the fundamentals of boxing .That wasn't his role:


http://www.antekprizering.com/brownbund ... ptsii.html


Wow-look at Ali with his hair conked. That must be an old picture.

[Grimm]

He was part of Sugar Ray Robinson's entourage before he met Ali. He was Ali's alter ego. He didn't know the fundamentals of boxing .That wasn't his role:


http://www.antekprizering.com/brownbund ... ptsii.html


Wow-look at Ali with his hair conked. That must be an old picture.

Probably just flat where the headgear was.

I don't believe Ali ever had his hair conked.

[granberry]

Bundini was a heavy cocaine addict. He was filled with racial hate.
A total piece of scum.

[jaclem2]

...i don't know about a goozle punch. but the one that made ezzard's neck, throat and adam's apple swell up was in the first fight, not the second. It was the turning point in the fight, as ezzard could hardly breathe after that one.

[Brutu]

Which round in the first fight was that in?

[ThatOne]

Bundini was a heavy cocaine addict. He was filled with racial hate.
A total piece of scum.

Maybe Bundini was full of racial hate because he grew up in the Jim Crow South which if you were black wasn't much better than living in NAZI Germany.

Perhaps you can tell us how the Jim Crow laws of the Old South were fundamentally different than the Nuremberg Laws


Jim Crow Laws:



From the 1880s into the 1960s, a majority of American states enforced segregation through "Jim Crow" laws (so called after a black character in minstrel shows). From Delaware to California, and from North Dakota to Texas, many states (and cities, too) could impose legal punishments on people for consorting with members of another race. The most common types of laws forbade intermarriage and ordered business owners and public institutions to keep their black and white clientele separated.
Here is a sampling of laws from various states:

Nurses No person or corporation shall require any white female nurse to nurse in wards or rooms in hospitals, either public or private, in which negro men are placed. Alabama

Buses All passenger stations in this state operated by any motor transportation company shall have separate waiting rooms or space and separate ticket windows for the white and colored races. Alabama

Railroads The conductor of each passenger train is authorized and required to assign each passenger to the car or the division of the car, when it is divided by a partition, designated for the race to which such passenger belongs. Alabama

Restaurants It shall be unlawful to conduct a restaurant or other place for the serving of food in the city, at which white and colored people are served in the same room, unless such white and colored persons are effectually separated by a solid partition extending from the floor upward to a distance of seven feet or higher, and unless a separate entrance from the street is provided for each compartment. Alabama

Pool and Billiard Rooms It shall be unlawful for a negro and white person to play together or in company with each other at any game of pool or billiards. Alabama

Toilet Facilities, Male Every employer of white or negro males shall provide for such white or negro males reasonably accessible and separate toilet facilities. Alabama

Intermarriage The marriage of a person of Caucasian blood with a Negro, Mongolian, Malay, or Hindu shall be null and void. Arizona

Intermarriage All marriages between a white person and a negro, or between a white person and a person of negro descent to the fourth generation inclusive, are hereby forever prohibited. Florida

Cohabitation Any negro man and white woman, or any white man and negro woman, who are not married to each other, who shall habitually live in and occupy in the nighttime the same room shall each be punished by imprisonment not exceeding twelve (12) months, or by fine not exceeding five hundred ($500.00) dollars. Florida

Education The schools for white children and the schools for negro children shall be conducted separately. Florida

Juvenile Delinquents There shall be separate buildings, not nearer than one fourth mile to each other, one for white boys and one for negro boys. White boys and negro boys shall not, in any manner, be associated together or worked together. Florida

Mental Hospitals The Board of Control shall see that proper and distinct apartments are arranged for said patients, so that in no case shall Negroes and white persons be together. Georgia

Intermarriage It shall be unlawful for a white person to marry anyone except a white person. Any marriage in violation of this section shall be void. Georgia

Barbers No colored barber shall serve as a barber [to] white women or girls. Georgia

Burial The officer in charge shall not bury, or allow to be buried, any colored persons upon ground set apart or used for the burial of white persons. Georgia

Restaurants All persons licensed to conduct a restaurant, shall serve either white people exclusively or colored people exclusively and shall not sell to the two races within the same room or serve the two races anywhere under the same license. Georgia

Amateur Baseball It shall be unlawful for any amateur white baseball team to play baseball on any vacant lot or baseball diamond within two blocks of a playground devoted to the Negro race, and it shall be unlawful for any amateur colored baseball team to play baseball in any vacant lot or baseball diamond within two blocks of any playground devoted to the white race. Georgia

Parks It shall be unlawful for colored people to frequent any park owned or maintained by the city for the benefit, use and enjoyment of white persons...and unlawful for any white person to frequent any park owned or maintained by the city for the use and benefit of colored persons. Georgia

Wine and Beer All persons licensed to conduct the business of selling beer or wine...shall serve either white people exclusively or colored people exclusively and shall not sell to the two races within the same room at any time. Georgia

Reform Schools The children of white and colored races committed to the houses of reform shall be kept entirely separate from each other. Kentucky

Circus Tickets All circuses, shows, and tent exhibitions, to which the attendance of...more than one race is invited or expected to attend shall provide for the convenience of its patrons not less than two ticket offices with individual ticket sellers, and not less than two entrances to the said performance, with individual ticket takers and receivers, and in the case of outside or tent performances, the said ticket offices shall not be less than twenty-five (25) feet apart. Louisiana

Housing Any person...who shall rent any part of any such building to a negro person or a negro family when such building is already in whole or in part in occupancy by a white person or white family, or vice versa when the building is in occupancy by a negro person or negro family, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction thereof shall be punished by a fine of not less than twenty-five ($25.00) nor more than one hundred ($100.00) dollars or be imprisoned not less than 10, or more than 60 days, or both such fine and imprisonment in the discretion of the court. Louisiana

The Blind The board of trustees shall...maintain a separate building...on separate ground for the admission, care, instruction, and support of all blind persons of the colored or black race. Louisiana

Intermarriage All marriages between a white person and a negro, or between a white person and a person of negro descent, to the third generation, inclusive, or between a white person and a member of the Malay race; or between the negro a nd a member of the Malay race; or between a person of Negro descent, to the third generation, inclusive, and a member of the Malay race, are forever prohibited, and shall be void. Maryland

Railroads All railroad companies and corporations, and all persons running or operating cars or coaches by steam on any railroad line or track in the State of Maryland, for the transportation of passengers, are hereby required to provide separate cars or coaches for the travel and transportation of the white and colored passengers. Maryland

Education Separate schools shall be maintained for the children of the white and colored races. Mississippi

Promotion of Equality Any person...who shall be guilty of printing, publishing or circulating printed, typewritten or written matter urging or presenting for public acceptance or general information, arguments or suggestions in favor of social equality or of intermarriage between whites and negroes, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and subject to fine or not exceeding five hundred (500.00) dollars or imprisonment not exceeding six (6) months or both. Mississippi

Intermarriage The marriage of a white person with a negro or mulatto or person who shall have one-eighth or more of negro blood, shall be unlawful and void. Mississippi

Hospital Entrances There shall be maintained by the governing authorities of every hospital maintained by the state for treatment of white and colored patients separate entrances for white and colored patients and visitors, and such entrances shall be used by the race only for which they are prepared. Mississippi

Prisons The warden shall see that the white convicts shall have separate apartments for both eating and sleeping from the negro convicts. Mississippi

Education Separate free schools shall be established for the education of children of African descent; and it shall be unlawful for any colored child to attend any white school, or any white child to attend a colored school. Missouri

Intermarriage All marriages between...white persons and negroes or white persons and Mongolians...are prohibited and declared absolutely void...No person having one-eighth part or more of negro blood shall be permitted to marry any white person, nor shall any white person be permitted to marry any negro or person having one-eighth part or more of negro blood. Missouri

Education Separate rooms [shall] be provided for the teaching of pupils of African descent, and [when] said rooms are so provided, such pupils may not be admitted to the school rooms occupied and used by pupils of Caucasian or other descent. New Mexico

Textbooks Books shall not be interchangeable between the white and colored schools, but shall continue to be used by the race first using them. North Carolina

Libraries The state librarian is directed to fit up and maintain a separate place for the use of the colored people who may come to the library for the purpose of reading books or periodicals. North Carolina

Militia The white and colored militia shall be separately enrolled, and shall never be compelled to serve in the same organization.No organization of colored troops shall be permitted where white troops are available, and while white permitted to be organized, colored troops shall be under the command of white officers. North Carolina

Transportation The...Utilities Commission...is empowered and directed to require the establishment of separate waiting rooms at all stations for the white and colored races. North Carolina

Teaching Any instructor who shall teach in any school, college or institution where members of the white and colored race are received and enrolled as pupils for instruction shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor, and upon conviction thereof, shall be fined in any sum not less than ten dollars ($10.00) nor more than fifty dollars ($50.00) for each offense. Oklahoma

Fishing, Boating, and Bathing The [Conservation] Commission shall have the right to make segregation of the white and colored races as to the exercise of rights of fishing, boating and bathing. Oklahoma

Mining The baths and lockers for the negroes shall be separate from the white race, but may be in the same building. Oklahoma

Telephone Booths The Corporation Commission is hereby vested with power and authority to require telephone companies...to maintain separate booths for white and colored patrons when there is a demand for such separate booths. That the Corporation Commission shall determine the necessity for said separate booths only upon complaint of the people in the town and vicinity to be served after due hearing as now provided by law in other complaints filed with the Corporation Commission. Oklahoma

Lunch Counters No persons, firms, or corporations, who or which furnish meals to passengers at station restaurants or station eating houses, in times limited by common carriers of said passengers, shall furnish said meals to white and colored passengers in the same room, or at the same table, or at the same counter. South Carolina

Child Custody It shall be unlawful for any parent, relative, or other white person in this State, having the control or custody of any white child, by right of guardianship, natural or acquired, or otherwise, to dispose of, give or surrender such white child permanently into the custody, control, maintenance, or support, of a negro. South Carolina

Libraries Any white person of such county may use the county free library under the rules and regulations prescribed by the commissioners court and may be entitled to all the privileges thereof. Said court shall make proper provision for the negroes of said county to be served through a separate branch or branches of the county free library, which shall be administered by [a] custodian of the negro race under the supervision of the county librarian. Texas

Education [The County Board of Education] shall provide schools of two kinds; those for white children and those for colored children. Texas

Theaters Every person...operating...any public hall, theatre, opera house, motion picture show or any place of public entertainment or public assemblage which is attended by both white and colored persons, shall separate the white race and the colored race and shall set apart and designate...certain seats therein to be occupied by white persons and a portion thereof , or certain seats therein, to be occupied by colored persons. Virginia

Railroads The conductors or managers on all such railroads shall have power, and are hereby required, to assign to each white or colored passenger his or her respective car, coach or compartment. If the passenger fails to disclose his race, the conductor and managers, acting in good faith, shall be the sole judges of his race. Virginia

Intermarriage All marriages of white persons with Negroes, Mulattos, Mongolians, or Malaya hereafter contracted in the State of Wyoming are and shall be illegal and void. Wyoming


http://academic.udayton.edu/race/02rights/jcrow02.htm

[ThatOne]

Nazi Racial Legislation: The Nuremberg Laws
One of the earliest statements of the Nazi party--the policy document of 1920 known as the Twenty-Five Points--explicitly foreshadowed the exclusion of Jews from German citizenship (Point 4).Thus, as soon as Hitler came to power in 1933, no time was lost in proceeding against Germany's Jewish citizens. In the early months of the regime, they were prey to unbridled violence by Party activists during the so-called Brown Terror. Officially, steps were immediately taken to dismiss Jews from the civil service, reduce their number in the professions, and curtail the students in schools and colleges. Partly as a ploy to bring order to the shameless Party activism against inoffensive citizens and to clarify the regime's attitude to German Jewry, the two measures outlined below were passed at a meeting of the Party Congress at Nuremberg on Sept. 15, 1935.
Two of the laws are outlined below. The third, the Reich Flag Act, decreed the new German national flag to be the Nazi swastika flag.

Law for the Protection of German Blood and German Honor
Firm in the knowledge that the purity of German blood is the basis for the survival of the German people and inspired by the unshakeable determination to safeguard the future of the German nation, the Reichstag has unanimously resolved upon the following law, which is promulgated herewith:
Section 1
Marriages between Jews and citizens of German or some related blood are forbidden.
Such marriages contracted despite the law are invalid, even if they take place abroad in order to avoid the law.

Section 2
Sexual relations outside marriage between Jews and citizens of German or related blood are forbidden.

Section 3
Jews will not be permitted to employ female citizens of German or related blood who are under 45 years as housekeepers.

Section 4
1. Jews are forbidden to raise the national flag or display the national colors.
2. However, they are allowed to display the Jewish colors. The exercise of this right is protected by the State.

Section 5
1. Anyone who disregards Section 1 is liable to penal servitude.
2. Anyone who disregards the prohibition of Section 2 will be punished with imprisonment or penal servitude.
3. Anyone who disregards the provisions of Sections 3 or 4 will be punished with imprisonment up to one year or with a fine, or with one of these penalties.

http://web.jjay.cuny.edu/~jobrien/reference/ob14.html

[ThatOne]

It seems, at least on paper, the Nuremberg Laws were less onerous.


Oh, Drew couldn't hate whites that much. He was married to one. But to a bigot that is as bad as hating them.

[granberry]

Did everyone else who was black during those years become a raging cocaine addict like Bundini?

Of course not.

Bundini was a parasite who attached himself to fighters.

He knew nothing about boxing.

He was physically afraid of his own shadow.

He would wail like a girl when he was scared.

At the weigh in to the Jimmy Young/Ali fight they had Young try on the gloves to be used in the fight.

With a glove on his right hand Young when over to Bundini, raised his hand above Bundini's head and brought the heel of his hand/glove down over and over on the top of Bundini's head.

Bundini was terrified, and screamed,
"We're gonna call off the fight. We're gonna call off the fight"

Young then went over and did the same to Angelo Dundee.
Dundee didn't look too happy, but he endured it without saying anything.

[ThatOne]

So we established that Jimmy Young could beat up Drew Brown and probably Angelo Dundee.

Maybe he could have given Drew the "Goozle Punch".

[Brutu]

I was watching tv some time ago and a movie came on titled DOIN TIME ,
it was released in 1985,and there is one scene where Muhammad Ali and Boundini Brown suddenly appear in a corner of the ring.
It was kind of eerie as it reminded me of ghosts.
Anyway probably the last the two were together.
I had heard that Brown ended up living in a cheap motel.
Makes you wonder what he did with his money over the years.

[ThatOne]

I was watching tv some time ago and a movie came on titled DOIN TIME ,
it was released in 1985,and there is one scene where Muhammad Ali and Boundini Brown suddenly appear in a corner of the ring.
It was kind of eerie as it reminded me of ghosts.
Anyway probably the last the two were together.
I had heard that Brown ended up living in a cheap motel.
Makes you wonder what he did with his money over the years.

Spent it on drugs, booze, and women.

[Brutu]

In that order?

[ThatOne]

In that order?

That I don't know. I know Ali banished hin after he pawned Ali's championship belt to buy drugs.

[Brutu]

Florida was a rough place as recent as the first half of the 20th Century.
You ever read about the town of Rosewood in Levy County I believe.
There was some sort of incident in 1923 between a black community and a white town.
The people of the White town became enraged attacked and burned Rosewood down and it was a desert town for decades after that.
That was tribalism 101.

[granberry]

So we established that Jimmy Young could beat up Drew Brown and probably Angelo Dundee.

Maybe he could have given Drew the "Goozle Punch".

Jimmy Young gave Ali a boxing lesson to end all boxing lessons

and there is NOTHING all the Ali shills in the world can do about it.

[jaclem2]

..brutu...i'm not sure, but i do know it was sometime after the sixth round.....maybe the seventh or the eighth....and it was a legal punch so ezzard's people...not ezzard himself, who didn't say much about it......said that this was NOT and excuse....but did say it affected ezzard's fight from that time on.

[BoxBuzz]

So we established that Jimmy Young could beat up Drew Brown and probably Angelo Dundee.

Maybe he could have given Drew the "Goozle Punch".

Jimmy Young gave Ali a boxing lesson to end all boxing lessons

and there is NOTHING all the Ali shills in the world can do about it.

Jimmy Young kept ducking out of the ropes.....and that is quite interesting as well. Maybe his mom was in the crowd and he wanted to wave? Or maybe it was a bit uncomfortable for him when his face was within the ropes. By the way geebs, whether we like it or not, Ali won on EVERY score card, and that has not changed since they day those cards were turned in.

[BoxBuzz]

I have given a lot of review to Marciano and Ezz films of late. I'm now of the opinion that Ezz would beat Marciano 2 out 3 times in their respective primes. Also Joe Louis would beat him 3 out of 3.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Louis would win three from three against Marciano, you mean, or Charles?

[yancey]

I have given a lot of review to Marciano and Ezz films of late. I'm now of the opinion that Ezz would beat Marciano 2 out 3 times in their respective primes. Also Joe Louis would beat him 3 out of 3.

Agreed for sure.

[yancey]

So we established that Jimmy Young could beat up Drew Brown and probably Angelo Dundee.

Maybe he could have given Drew the "Goozle Punch".

Jimmy Young gave Ali a boxing lesson to end all boxing lessons

and there is NOTHING all the Ali shills in the world can do about it.

Jimmy Young kept ducking out of the ropes.....and that is quite interesting as well. Maybe his mom was in the crowd and he wanted to wave? Or maybe it was a bit uncomfortable for him when his face was within the ropes. By the way geebs, whether we like it or not, Ali won on EVERY score card, and that has not changed since they day those cards were turned in.

That fight was nationally televised.

The ducking out of the ropes was a chicken bleep maneuver, but Young did give a fat Ali a boxing lesson.

Couldn't believe the decision yet at the same time I half expected it, if you get my drift.