Did the lack of warmup fights damage Tyson?

[Controversial]

The first Tyson vs Holyfield fight was in 1996, when Tyson was 30 years old and 45-1 (39 kos). He only had 4 comeback fights since being jailed 5 years earlier (these lasted 8 rounds in total). He wasn't the fighter he once was but still young and not as damaged as he was after the Holyfield defeats.

Did Tyson jump into this fight too quickly? Also why do you think Holyfield just walked through Tysons punches without flinching? Tyson one of boxing all time greatest punchers couldn't even stagger the lighter Holyfield.

Or do you think no matter how many comeback fights Tyson had he would have still lost?

[MEISINGER]

holyfield had his number.
evander had no fear and a great chin

[granberry]

Tyson was already downhill when he lost to Douglas.

Compare the real Tyson against Larry Holmes with Holyfield against an even older Holmes.

Holyfield won a decision and got a bad cut for his trouble.

Tyson blasted Holmes out of there.

[Controversial]

Tyson was already downhill when he lost to Douglas.

Compare the real Tyson against Larry Holmes with Holyfield against an even older Holmes.

Holyfield won a decision and got a bad cut for his trouble.

Tyson blasted Holmes out of there.

I hear what your saying however styles makes fights, Holyfield was never known for his punch at heavyweight so the Holmes fight was always going to be a long one.

I agree Tyson was on the slide when he fought Douglas but boxing 8 rounds after being out the ring for years wasn't ideal preparation.

[granberry]

boxing 8 rounds after being out the ring for years wasn't ideal preparation.

Of course not.

But he was so far downhill by then that preparation didn't matter that much.

[allworld80]

Yep, Tyson was already past his prime, and the years without fighting didn't help. The 1988 version of Mike would be a different animal for Holyfield to deal with.

[MEISINGER]

i will not argue that tyson was not the same fighter as before
the douglas fight

but 9 months prior to losing to holyfield
he beat the wbc champion frank bruno by tko3
then 3 months later beat the wba champion bruce seldon tko1

though tyson was not the same tyson of 1988 he
was still a fearsome and cappable fighter

[ThatOne]

Tyson was already downhill when he lost to Douglas.

Compare the real Tyson against Larry Holmes with Holyfield against an even older Holmes.

Holyfield won a decision and got a bad cut for his trouble.

Tyson blasted Holmes out of there.

You are a piece of work. Tyson was downhill at the tender age of 24 but Ali was in his prime at 34 when he won a hotly contested decision against Jimmy Young that in your opinion was undeserved.

Also, styles make fights. Just because Boxer A convincingly beats Boxer B and Boxer B convincingly beats Boxer C doesn't mean Boxer A can convincingly beat Boxer C. I know you are not the sharpest knife in the drawer so I will put names to my proposition. Muhammad Ali never figured out Ken Norton. George Foreman annihilated him. How did that work out for Foreman when he fought Ali?

[ThatOne]

holyfield had his number.
evander had no fear and a great chin

.

[Controversial]

i will not argue that tyson was not the same fighter as before
the douglas fight

but 9 months prior to losing to holyfield
he beat the wbc champion frank bruno by tko3
then 3 months later beat the wba champion bruce seldon tko1

though tyson was not the same tyson of 1988 he
was still a fearsome and cappable fighter

I think those wins were deceiving for Tyson. Bruno fought a horrible fight and totally froze. Seldon had an awful chin and I would argue that Seldon took a dive because Tyson never landed a punch for the first knockdown.

[ThatOne]

i will not argue that tyson was not the same fighter as before
the douglas fight

but 9 months prior to losing to holyfield
he beat the wbc champion frank bruno by tko3
then 3 months later beat the wba champion bruce seldon tko1

though tyson was not the same tyson of 1988 he
was still a fearsome and cappable fighter

I think those wins were deceiving for Tyson. Bruno fought a horrible fight and totally froze. Seldon had an awful chin and I would argue that Seldon took a dive because Tyson never landed a punch for the first knockdown.

Maybe Evander just had his number.

[granberry]

The Thorazine and lithium Tyson took before his loss to Douglas destroyed him.

They destroyed his balance, perceptions, reflexes, and coordination.

[granberry]

Maybe Evander just had his number.

That's what your news media says

and you parrot it.

[ThatOne]

Maybe Evander just had his number.

That's what your news media says

and you parrot it.

Lennox had his number too.

I remember listening to Joe Frazier on the Howard Stern Show in the late eighties when Tyson still had his air of invincibilitty. Howard asked Frazier how he would beat Tyson. He said "by hitting him back", implying his opponents were cowered by him. Well, Joe was prophetic, Whenever Tyson fought someone who wasn't to be intimidated, i.e. , Douglas, Holy, and Lewis he got his ass handed to him.

[BoxBuzz]

The Thorazine and lithium Tyson took before his loss to Douglas destroyed him.

They destroyed his balance, perceptions, reflexes, and coordination.

There is SO MUCH POTENTIAL truth to this. However once you get off this stuff (for 30 days or more) it ceases to have such an affect. However, and this is critical.....was he taking it AND attempting to train an perhaps even fight? If so, I promise you he was not at all the same fighter. granberry hits a home run with this equation. The question is...WHEN was he taking these drugs.

Because if it was NOT during his training and fighting periods, AND there was more than a 30 day clearing period, it has to be deeply discounted. Counter to some rumors these two drugs do not leave a lasting impression on the nervous system IF USED AS DIRECTED AND NOT UTILIZED FOR OVER AN 24 MONTH CONTIGUOUS PERIOD.

Get to the facts of this matter, and you will have your answer as to whether these drugs can be directly linked to his skills diminishing.

However the fact that he needed these drugs, still makes a case for how he could quite likely fold in a matchup vs a fella with a strong mental constitution. I believe Dempsey, Frazier, and Ali would be too much for him on that level. Tyson's "Psyche" did work to his advantage, and in the end worked against him.

[ThatOne]

The Thorazine and lithium Tyson took before his loss to Douglas destroyed him.

They destroyed his balance, perceptions, reflexes, and coordination.

There is SO MUCH POTENTIAL truth to this. However once you get off this stuff (for 30 days or more) it ceases to have such an affect. However, and this is critical.....was he taking it AND attempting to train an perhaps even fight? If so, I promise you he was not at all the same fighter. granberry hits a home run with this equation. The question is...WHEN was he taking these drugs.

Because if it was NOT during his training and fighting periods, AND there was more than a 30 day clearing period, it has to be deeply discounted. Counter to some rumors these two drugs do not leave a lasting impression on the nervous system IF USED AS DIRECTED AND NOT UTILIZED FOR OVER AN 24 MONTH CONTIGUOUS PERIOD.

Get to the facts of this matter, and you will have your answer as to whether these drugs can be directly linked to his skills diminishing.

However the fact that he needed these drugs, still makes a case for how he could quite likely fold in a matchup vs a fella with a strong mental constitution. I believe Dempsey, Frazier, and Ali would be too much for him on that level. Tyson's "Psyche" did work to his advantage, and in the end worked against him.

Tyson had taken psychotropic drugs. But if there's proof he hsd taken psychotropic drugs prior to the Douglas debacle please provide it and rumor, innuendo, or conjecture isn't proof to me.

[ThatOne]

Maybe Evander just had his number.

That's what your news media says

and you parrot it.

Ah, that's right. I forgot Holyfield was another fighter you vehemently dislike so any wins he has have to be denigrated and discounted.

Carry on with your latrine duties, private.

Why does he hate Evander? He couldn't be more different than Ali in and out of the ring?

[Collins2000]

Why does he hate Evander? He couldn't be more different than Ali in and out of the ring?

That would be a question for the maestro himself.

All I know is he hates him with a passion.

And don't get him onto the subject of Ken Norton!

[Goodnight, Irene]

Yep, Tyson was already past his prime, and the years without fighting didn't help. The 1988 version of Mike would be a different animal for Holyfield to deal with.

Didn't you get the memo?

The stock-standard answer to this question is just to repeat what everyone else says --- Holyfield, "had his number," &, "would always" have beaten Tyson. No ifs, &, or buts.

[IKSRTFO]

Tyson was already downhill when he lost to Douglas.

Compare the real Tyson against Larry Holmes with Holyfield against an even older Holmes.

Holyfield won a decision and got a bad cut for his trouble.

Tyson blasted Holmes out of there.

I don't think a prime Tyson ever would've stopped a fighter like Holyfield or Foreman. Tyson relied on knocking guys out and hurting him and when he couldn't do that he would choke. However I still list Tyson as one of the great heavyweights due to him being a rather short heavyweight destroying guys alot bigger than him with overlooked speed and defense..

[ThatOne]

Yep, Tyson was already past his prime, and the years without fighting didn't help. The 1988 version of Mike would be a different animal for Holyfield to deal with.

Didn't you get the memo?

The stock-standard answer to this question is just to repeat what everyone else says --- Holyfield, "had his number," &, "would always" have beaten Tyson. No ifs, &, or buts.

How come Teddy Atlas who knows Tyson quite well said exactly the same thing and even predicted that Tyson would get himself disqualified in the second fight when Holyfield would frustrate him?

Yes, not just in boxing, but some athletes just have another athletes number. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

[granberry]

The Thorazine and lithium Tyson took before his loss to Douglas destroyed him.

They destroyed his balance, perceptions, reflexes, and coordination.

There is SO MUCH POTENTIAL truth to this. However once you get off this stuff (for 30 days or more) it ceases to have such an affect.

buz is not only an expert on boxing,

he is also a psychiatric drug pusher.

Thorazine is known as the "chemical lobotomy."

There is no recovering from the damage it does to the nervous system.

Tyson took Thorazine and lithium (another major psychiatric drug) AT THE SAME TIME.

Drug Combinations, the companion book to the Physician's Desk Reference, warns doctors never to give the two drugs together because they have been known to cause "permanent brain damage."

Thorazine [Chlorpromazine]: " Its antidopaminergic properties can cause extrapyramidal symptoms such as akathisia (restlessness), dystonia, and Parkinsonism. . . .2] Chlorpromazine is known to cause tardive dyskinesia, which can be irreversible."

"Over 100 million people were treated but the popularity of the drug fell from the late 1960s as the severe extrapyramidal side effects and tardive dyskinesia became more of a concern. "

buz is FULL OF IT when he says these drugs do not have permanent effect.

WHAT ARE YOU SELLING, buz?

What a sicko.


Psychiatric drug pusher buz has never heard of the "Thorazine shuffle."

[Goodnight, Irene]

Teddy Atlas?

Gee, I can't think of any reason he'd have an axe to grind where Tyson is concerned

[ThatOne]

Teddy Atlas?

Gee, I can't think of any reason he'd have an axe to grind where Tyson is concerned

I think that's called argumentum ad hominem; attacking the person who made the argument (Teddy Atlas) and not the argument itself.

Of course Teddy Atlas was mad at Mike Tyson for sexually assaulting his 13 year old ?, fifteen year old? niece but he was prophetic in predicting that Tyson would get frustrated by Holyfield and would extricate himself from the fight by getting disaqualified. We have the benefit of hindsight to evaluate his prediction and his prediction turned out to be correct.

[ThatOne]

I am confounded by the psychotropic drug argument. I am trying to distill it as put forth by its devotees.

If you attribute Mike Tyson's losses to Buster Douglas , Evander Holyfield, Lennox Lewis, etcetera to his use of psychotropic drugs what do you attribute his intervening wins against say, Donavan Ruddock, Bruce Seldon, Frank Bruno, and Buster Mathis to?

Did the drugs only affect him against certain fighters?