Two Interesting Posts by Dagos and Chuck

[granberry]

THE MOUTH THAT BORED

I remember when Muhammad Ali was in town to train for the Norton fight. Both boys were training at some swank hotel in Mission Valley putting the last touches on their upcoming fight. Ali would come out first. He drew a big crowd. Only fighter I can remember who trained with a microphone in the ring. Oh,he was charming all right. I don't know if San Diego saw him as a fighter or some sort of curiosity piece. Between Ali and Bundini Brown,there was enough laughter to fill up a week on Laugh In.

Ali did his thing of mostly letting his sparring partners,Billy Joiner,Tony Doyle,and Alonzo Johnson work him against the ropes and deal out shots to the his body and head as Muhammad protected himself with his arms against his sides and raised up. I think the public wanted to see him dance,but Ali's days as a hoofer were long behind him. Even so,I didn't think Norton had much of a chance.

During Ali's stay he was scheduled to work a day in Tijuana. There was a lot of hype in TJ with fight posters in Spanish nailed on every telephone pole and light post. But when the time came for Ali's sojourn south of the border,he was a no show. He cancelled. Never got a straight answer on that,but my feeling was that Ali wasn't going to charm the socks off the Mexican "aficianados."

Ali wasn't Mexico's "type" of fighter. Ali was a dancer.By that time, was more of a holder and staller. He could get away with that in the U.S.,but in Mexico they can't stand a fighter that holds and stalls. Maybe they could have bought the dancing,but even then,Mexicans like the "killer." The guy who says "screw defense. I'm wading in throwing everything I have." Frazier anf Tyson were popular. Ali never was.

Ali was smart not going down to TJ to do his act with his mouth. That's another thing Mexican fans can't stand. A cutesy mouth. A guy that talks too much.Add to it that Ali was African/American and that sealed the deal. You see Archie Moore and Joe Louis were gentlemen aside from being great fighters. Frazier and Tyson were scary and relentless. They were accepted African/American fighters.You could say they were even embraced . But Ali? All the wrong ingredients for Mexico. He knew that.

Muhammad Ali knew that if he went to Mexico the"aficianados"wouldn't be laughing with him,but at him. He would have been the mouth that bored.

____________________________________________________________________

It is amazing that Joe Frazier wasn't more popular because he was extremely aggressive and had a tremendous workrate when in the ring. Of course, Muhammad Ali was a very charismatic individual, which is a major reason why he overshadowed Frazier even though the latter was much more of an "action" fighter.

- Chuck Johnston

http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... tart=25750

[John Galt]

It is hard to believe that Ali wouldn't have won over the crowd anywhere.

[granberry]

Galt,

You are describing a very tired carnival trick (used in carnival acts all the time).

The guy was an employee of Ali.

[ThatOne]

[Chuck1052]

John- Both dagosd2000 and I come from Southern California, a place where most of the hardcore fans have been of Mexican descent over the last fifty years. Fans of Mexican descent like the "action" fighters, especially the smaller boxers who have Mexican roots. As a result, it is little wonder that Muhammad Ali was not completely embraced among many California boxing fans of Mexican descent. In fact, Ali's second fight with Ken Norton was not a sellout when it took place in Inglewood, California.

By the way, I was a big Ali fan during the 1970s. But I also was a fan of boxing in general. My other favorite fighters included Armando Muniz, Danny "Little Red" Lopez, Bobby Chacon and Alberto Davila.

- Chuck Johnston

[Robinson]

I think what also made Ali appeal was that he gave out a lot of sound
bytes to the general media. Very very casual sports fans then and
today emmbraced him because of this.

Also, regardless of being a fan of his style, Ali was able to do very
well because he was generally bigger, faster footed and moved
well for a big guy. Anything he said or did out side of the ring should
not have mattered to the real fans (but it always does).

I can see where Ali's admirers are coming from, and I can also see
where his detractors are looking at it from. But love the guy or hate
him, the fatc remains however your tongue flicks out his name people
from all over know his name and talk about him when it comes to
boxing and sports.

As far as him as a person goes, I am a boxing fan, so I am only really
interested in how he performs in the ring...thats how I see guys like
Toney, Mayweather, Tyson, etc etc....I am only interested in how
the fight, train and their in ring exploits. Anything else is merely
gossip, tabloid, celebrity or socialite ecstacy that I really don't care
for.