Ali-Lyle-Justified Stoppage Or Not

[ThatOne]

The "action" begins at the forty second mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgmaMkSv ... re=related

Was referee, Ferd Hernandez, justified in stopping the fight.

[BoxBuzz]

Sadly for Lyle yes. It's definitely NOT a Chavez Taylor moment.

[ThatOne]

Sadly for Lyle yes. It's definitely NOT a Chavez Taylor moment.

That fight had mere seconds to go, Chavez was well behind, but Taylor was getting killed, ergo:


Dr. Flip Homansky, who examined Taylor following the fight and immediately sent him to the hospital, summarized his injuries by saying "Meldrick suffered a facial fracture, he was urinating pure blood, his face was grotesquely swollen... this was a kid who was truly beaten up to the face, the body, and the brain".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julio_Cesa ... ick_Taylor

[BoxBuzz]

The Lyle call was good IMHO. Lyle was not coming back and time was not on his side. It was inevitable. But I would not have howled if the ref would have let it go on. Boxing is a rough game and people get hurt sometimes. Which I think was all Lyle was going to experience if it would have continued.



Taylor would have been pissing no more blood, if the two seconds on the clock would have run out. Time WAS on his side. I just think Taylor earned the right to go the two seconds to finish with the win. But Steele probably did what he felt he had to do. It's a tough position to be in.

[John Galt]

Lyle wasn't doing anything, the ref had no choice.

[Goodnight, Irene]

It was the wrong decision.

Let's see one supporter of the stoppage say --- with a straight face --- the ref would have called the fight if Ali had been in the identical position, with Lyle assuming his role.

Not likely.

[dempseyfire]

It was a fine call. Lyle was not successfully blocking a number of the punches and most importantly was NOT THROWING BACK. He was definitely hurt and stunned a la Ruddock in the first Tyson fight. If he was fine like he claimed why didn't he at least throw a JAB back at Ali. Frustrating ending to watch.

BTW I've always been impressed by that Ali right hand that started it all. Ali had looked like crap the majority of the night but that straight right came out of nowhere and was LIGHTENING fast a la the right hand Hearns finished Duran with.

[yancey]

It was the wrong decision.

Let's see one supporter of the stoppage say --- with a straight face --- the ref would have called the fight if Ali had been in the identical position, with Lyle assuming his role.

Not likely.

Agreed.

I was going to make the same point when I saw this topic but you beat me to it.

Not much chance of it being stopped if the roles were reversed.

[dberry]

It was the wrong decision.

Let's see one supporter of the stoppage say --- with a straight face --- the ref would have called the fight if Ali had been in the identical position, with Lyle assuming his role.

Not likely.

Salient point G,I.

[allworld80]

It was the wrong decision.

Let's see one supporter of the stoppage say --- with a straight face --- the ref would have called the fight if Ali had been in the identical position, with Lyle assuming his role.

Not likely.

Agreed.

I was going to make the same point when I saw this topic but you beat me to it.

Not much chance of it being stopped if the roles were reversed.

Agreed, but if it's someone besides Ali in there with him? If you look at the stoppage on it's own it looks fine.

[Robinson]

I do not think that there was any greater conspiracy. I think that
the Ref stepped in because Lyle was being hit hard and often by
a fast handed big man. Whether he would have shown Ali such
'mercy' is speculation. But the reality is that in the sport where a
ref has the right to stop a fight based on their opinion and
concern. You as a fighter have to make sure that your not a sitting
duck getting hit that often and frequently.

I have seen worse stoppages and I have seen better ones. But its
in the hands of a man, so others will always be there to criticise.

[Goodnight, Irene]

It was the wrong decision.

Let's see one supporter of the stoppage say --- with a straight face --- the ref would have called the fight if Ali had been in the identical position, with Lyle assuming his role.

Not likely.

Agreed.

I was going to make the same point when I saw this topic but you beat me to it.

Not much chance of it being stopped if the roles were reversed.

That's the pressing issue for me, here --- & you notice, no one has taken up my offer yet. Most of those contending the stoppage was legitimate, I know to be reason-minded folkes...& they know what I'm stating is simply, matter-of-factly bang-on. They know Ali would've been permitted to continue.

That's what makes this stoppage, as I've said from the outset, the wrong decision.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Lyle wasn't doing anything, the ref had no choice.

Don't kid yourself, though. If the roles are reversed, the ref would have, "found" a choice. No question.

[The Great John L]

It was the wrong decision.

Let's see one supporter of the stoppage say --- with a straight face --- the ref would have called the fight if Ali had been in the identical position, with Lyle assuming his role.

Not likely.

Agreed. Lyle took much more punishment from Shavers and came back to win. It wasn't like he was getting hammered by Foreman or Shavers. He had a track record of being able to survive and recover. It was a poor stoppage.

[TheGreatA]

Lyle took punishment from Shavers and Foreman but then again he wasn't in the 11th round of those fights. He seemed like he was tiring but Lyle did have a reputation of coming back from being hurt. However in the Foreman fight the end came after he was battered in the corner much like this.

If Ali had been in the same situation, he would have done whatever he could to grab and hold. Lyle was not really showing anything in there so it was a decent stoppage. Obviously not the best since there's controversy over it.

[Goodnight, Irene]

"...If Ali had been in the same situation, he would have done whatever he could to grab and hold..." - A



Not so fast. We are saying if Ali responded in identical fashion to Lyle, what would happen. We know he would be allowed to continue.

[The Great John L]

Lyle took punishment from Shavers and Foreman but then again he wasn't in the 11th round of those fights. He seemed like he was tiring but Lyle did have a reputation of coming back from being hurt. However in the Foreman fight the end came after he was battered in the corner much like this.

I don't think the ending of the Foreman fight looks anything like the ending of the Ali fight. Lyle and Foreman fought a colossal war and both were exhausted. Against Ali Lyle fought a very patient, calculated fight and was far from being exhausted.

Of course the Foreman fight followed the Ali fight, so perhaps the manner in which Lyle performed in that fight isn't relevant to the discussion.

This can be debated forever, but the fact remains that it was a HW title fight that Lyle was winning, and although he had taken some shots and appeared stunned, there are almost limitless examples of fighters being in much worse shape and coming back to win against much more dangerous punchers than Ali. And of course, Ron's reaction after the stoppage clearly showed that he was far from being in major trouble.

[Ezzard]

Lyle took punishment from Shavers and Foreman but then again he wasn't in the 11th round of those fights. He seemed like he was tiring but Lyle did have a reputation of coming back from being hurt. However in the Foreman fight the end came after he was battered in the corner much like this.

I don't think the ending of the Foreman fight looks anything like the ending of the Ali fight. Lyle and Foreman fought a colossal war and both were exhausted. Against Ali Lyle fought a very patient, calculated fight and was far from being exhausted.

Of course the Foreman fight followed the Ali fight, so perhaps the manner in which Lyle performed in that fight isn't relevant to the discussion.

This can be debated forever, but the fact remains that it was a HW title fight that Lyle was winning, and although he had taken some shots and appeared stunned, there are almost limitless examples of fighters being in much worse shape and coming back to win against much more dangerous punchers than Ali. And of course, Ron's reaction after the stoppage clearly showed that he was far from being in major trouble.

I think it was an unfair stoppage for the reasons that Irene gives. We all know that this goes on in boxing. When one man makes all the money there isn't a level playing field.

Not to get lost in all of this is that it was still a remarkable comeback from Ali in a fight he was losing.

Lyle deserved a bit better though.

[ThatOne]

Lyle took punishment from Shavers and Foreman but then again he wasn't in the 11th round of those fights. He seemed like he was tiring but Lyle did have a reputation of coming back from being hurt. However in the Foreman fight the end came after he was battered in the corner much like this.

I don't think the ending of the Foreman fight looks anything like the ending of the Ali fight. Lyle and Foreman fought a colossal war and both were exhausted. Against Ali Lyle fought a very patient, calculated fight and was far from being exhausted.

Of course the Foreman fight followed the Ali fight, so perhaps the manner in which Lyle performed in that fight isn't relevant to the discussion.

This can be debated forever, but the fact remains that it was a HW title fight that Lyle was winning, and although he had taken some shots and appeared stunned, there are almost limitless examples of fighters being in much worse shape and coming back to win against much more dangerous punchers than Ali. And of course, Ron's reaction after the stoppage clearly showed that he was far from being in major trouble.

What about the fact that there was about two minutes left in the round? If he doesn't eventually move or the fight is stopped he's going to get killed or seriously hurt.

[raylawpc]

I hate to criticize referees, particularly when the closest I was to the action was my TV screen, but from that vantage point, I think the referee stopped it too soon. Its always hard to be too critical of an early stoppage because the referee had the advantage of being in the ring with the fighters, and can see things we can't see on the TV screen.