If Lennox never fights again...
If Lennox never fights again...
All the boxing websites and news agencies are running stories that Lewis has boxed his last fight. If so, what is your abiding memory of the man? He essentially dominated the heavyweight scene for 10 years after his sensational win over Razor Ruddock in 1992, but my overriding memory is one of disappointment that a natural showdown between him and Riddick Bowe never materialised. The two met in the super-heavyweight final of the 1988 Olympics (Lewis won in two rounds), but they should have met as pros. It would have been a bigger defining fight for Lewis than his fights with Ruddock, Holyfield and an aging Tyson. It wasn't to be.
Yes, it looks like the end.
I have a few memories of Lewis.
My first memory of Lewis was in his 5th pro fight (shown on the BBC). I was 10 at the time and I didn't know anything about his past. I saw him and thought - that guys going to be champion. Glad I was proved right.
Another memory I had was when he demolished Tommy Morrison. It was the first time I saw that his new trainer, had installed some new tactics in Lewis and that he might finally fulfil his potential. What the fcuk has happend to Pepe Correra - is he the most over-rated coach in world boxing?? I blame Correra for Leonard's dreadful 'knock the guy out' tactics in the Hearns rematch, if Dundee was in the corner (and they didn't have the dispute over pay) - Leonard would have won decisively, cause Hearns was fcuked from the 6th.
I remember when Holyfield and Lewis faught in success weeks in October 1997(?). Both put on possibly their greatest ever displays - Lewis KOing Golota in a round and Holyfield beating up Moorer to capture the IBF belt (aswell as his WBA crown). The feeling of destiny, that these two great fighters are so equal - In 1997 I didn't know who would win.
Also, his last fight - one thing that he never been really tested was his resolve and heart (coming back from the bring of defeat). Shannon Briggs did somewhat (but he's awful). Lewis finally showed championship bottle, and I think was robbed of a 'clean' victory.
However, I think his two fight series with Holyfield is the fight people will remember him most for. Unfortunately, for me, I think those fights showed that if Lewis faught a fit, prime, Holyfield - then the real deal would have won. I thought Lewis lost the rematch and should have faught him a third time.
I have a few memories of Lewis.
My first memory of Lewis was in his 5th pro fight (shown on the BBC). I was 10 at the time and I didn't know anything about his past. I saw him and thought - that guys going to be champion. Glad I was proved right.
Another memory I had was when he demolished Tommy Morrison. It was the first time I saw that his new trainer, had installed some new tactics in Lewis and that he might finally fulfil his potential. What the fcuk has happend to Pepe Correra - is he the most over-rated coach in world boxing?? I blame Correra for Leonard's dreadful 'knock the guy out' tactics in the Hearns rematch, if Dundee was in the corner (and they didn't have the dispute over pay) - Leonard would have won decisively, cause Hearns was fcuked from the 6th.
I remember when Holyfield and Lewis faught in success weeks in October 1997(?). Both put on possibly their greatest ever displays - Lewis KOing Golota in a round and Holyfield beating up Moorer to capture the IBF belt (aswell as his WBA crown). The feeling of destiny, that these two great fighters are so equal - In 1997 I didn't know who would win.
Also, his last fight - one thing that he never been really tested was his resolve and heart (coming back from the bring of defeat). Shannon Briggs did somewhat (but he's awful). Lewis finally showed championship bottle, and I think was robbed of a 'clean' victory.
However, I think his two fight series with Holyfield is the fight people will remember him most for. Unfortunately, for me, I think those fights showed that if Lewis faught a fit, prime, Holyfield - then the real deal would have won. I thought Lewis lost the rematch and should have faught him a third time.
Lewis is just very, very Lucky
That's all!
All the guys who would have beat him self destructed or were over the hill when they fought lewis
Lets look at the list
Mike Tyson - Way past his best and came into fight in terrible shape!
EVander Holyfield - 37 year's old when fought lewis and way past his prime and like stu say, Holyfield derserved at least a draw in 2nd fight!
Riddock Bowe - Pretty much self destructed by his eating disorder and crazy antics outside ring
Ike Ibeabuchi - Self destructed by being corrupted by LAS VEGAS
Oliver McCall - Mentally destroyed by years of crack, I, like many others, believe he would have ko'd lewis in rematch if it wasn't for the Crack withdrawal symtom's
I sure i could of a few others as well!
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VOTE HOWARD DEAN FOR PRESIDENT IN 2004
http://www.deanforamerica.com/
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That's all!
All the guys who would have beat him self destructed or were over the hill when they fought lewis
Lets look at the list
Mike Tyson - Way past his best and came into fight in terrible shape!
EVander Holyfield - 37 year's old when fought lewis and way past his prime and like stu say, Holyfield derserved at least a draw in 2nd fight!
Riddock Bowe - Pretty much self destructed by his eating disorder and crazy antics outside ring
Ike Ibeabuchi - Self destructed by being corrupted by LAS VEGAS
Oliver McCall - Mentally destroyed by years of crack, I, like many others, believe he would have ko'd lewis in rematch if it wasn't for the Crack withdrawal symtom's
I sure i could of a few others as well!
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VOTE HOWARD DEAN FOR PRESIDENT IN 2004
http://www.deanforamerica.com/
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/3226393.stm
Lewis 'unlikely to fight again'
World heavyweight champion Lennox Lewis is close to retirement, according to his trainer Emanuel Steward.
The 38-year-old has not fought since retaining his title with a sixth-round win over Vitali Klitschko in June and Steward claims that could have been his final appearance.
"Lennox won't fight before the new year and almost certainly not after that," Steward told the Daily Express newspaper.
"Lennox won't fight again - I am as sure of that as I can be.
"I am not saying he definitely won't go back, but there is very little chance he will return again.
"Lennox has done all he has to do in the ring. He has won the world title and is the undisputed heavyweight champion in everyone's eyes.
Lewis: I won't fight this year
"He has got nothing left to prove."
Lewis has reduced his number of fights markedly over recent years with his last fight before Klitschko an eighth-round win over Mike Tyson in June 2002.
Responding to Steward's comments, Lewis's ex-manager Frank Maloney said he hoped his former fighter had decided to call it a day.
"What Lennox Lewis has achieved is unbelievable for British boxing," Maloney told BBC GMR.
"But he's got nothing else to prove. All he can do is damage his legacy. The mind might still be willing but, at 38, the body's getting weaker.
"There's no-one out there for him and he should retire and enjoy life".
Lewis 'unlikely to fight again'
World heavyweight champion Lennox Lewis is close to retirement, according to his trainer Emanuel Steward.
The 38-year-old has not fought since retaining his title with a sixth-round win over Vitali Klitschko in June and Steward claims that could have been his final appearance.
"Lennox won't fight before the new year and almost certainly not after that," Steward told the Daily Express newspaper.
"Lennox won't fight again - I am as sure of that as I can be.
"I am not saying he definitely won't go back, but there is very little chance he will return again.
"Lennox has done all he has to do in the ring. He has won the world title and is the undisputed heavyweight champion in everyone's eyes.
Lewis: I won't fight this year
"He has got nothing left to prove."
Lewis has reduced his number of fights markedly over recent years with his last fight before Klitschko an eighth-round win over Mike Tyson in June 2002.
Responding to Steward's comments, Lewis's ex-manager Frank Maloney said he hoped his former fighter had decided to call it a day.
"What Lennox Lewis has achieved is unbelievable for British boxing," Maloney told BBC GMR.
"But he's got nothing else to prove. All he can do is damage his legacy. The mind might still be willing but, at 38, the body's getting weaker.
"There's no-one out there for him and he should retire and enjoy life".
Without confirmation of his retirement or indeed the dust settling on his career it's hard to clearly state what my abiding memories of Lennox Lewis the boxer will be.
As a British boxing fan who pinned his hopes on Frank Bruno as a 12 year old (me not Frank) and constantly saw him come up short it was great to have this Olympic champion coming to fight on our shores, someone to get behind who had a real shot at succeeding.
And succeed he did. After thrashing the dangerman Razor Ruddock he constantly went across the pond to defeat his peers and break the hearts of those like Nasty who couldn't let go of the hate. When I started posting on boxing forums (sometime in 1999 I think) I realised the sheer venemous hatred towards Lennox Lewis. Generally the haters fit a kind of stereotype either big Tyson fans, American, WWF fans, basically the McDonalds of fight fans. They like their junk food and gutter entertainment, I like fine wine and theatre. The opinion of these people is so tainted with their irrational dislike for Lewis that it is to all intents and purposes irrelevant when trying to discuss his standing/acheivements.
The biggest moment for me were Lennox's 2 fights with Holyfield. They were both great occasions, real genuine fights for a unified title. At one stage I had thought Lewis would never get Holyfield in a ring so when they stood opposite each other at MSG in March 99 I couldn't believe it. And for my money they had 2 intriguing tussles. Certainly not great fights but interesting and I would say over the 24 rounds Lewis edged it by about 4/5 rounds. People now say Holyfield was shot e.t.c but they weren't saying that 12 months earlier when he was knocking 7 shades of shit out of Michael Moorer and Tyson before that. Just as they weren't saying it before he fought Tyson, Mcall e.t.c .......
It's a shame the Bowe fight never materialised but for me it doesn't harm his legacy at all, it was clearly Bowe who avoided him and that situation is also one of the issues that embodies Lewis's career, not only was Lewis taking on the best in the world, he was having to fight in the courts for the right to do so. Lewis flattened Bowe once, he would have done it again and he knew it.
That's why the criticism of Lewis 'always being in the courts' sickens me and shows how thick some people are. The guy is the first Heavyweight not to let Don King and the corrupt alphabet bodies walk all over him, those same bodies that I bet some of you claim have ruined boxing in your next breath, and all he was trying to do was fight and beat the best. And he did it.
Lennox Lewis - Top five all time great Heavyweight.
As a British boxing fan who pinned his hopes on Frank Bruno as a 12 year old (me not Frank) and constantly saw him come up short it was great to have this Olympic champion coming to fight on our shores, someone to get behind who had a real shot at succeeding.
And succeed he did. After thrashing the dangerman Razor Ruddock he constantly went across the pond to defeat his peers and break the hearts of those like Nasty who couldn't let go of the hate. When I started posting on boxing forums (sometime in 1999 I think) I realised the sheer venemous hatred towards Lennox Lewis. Generally the haters fit a kind of stereotype either big Tyson fans, American, WWF fans, basically the McDonalds of fight fans. They like their junk food and gutter entertainment, I like fine wine and theatre. The opinion of these people is so tainted with their irrational dislike for Lewis that it is to all intents and purposes irrelevant when trying to discuss his standing/acheivements.
The biggest moment for me were Lennox's 2 fights with Holyfield. They were both great occasions, real genuine fights for a unified title. At one stage I had thought Lewis would never get Holyfield in a ring so when they stood opposite each other at MSG in March 99 I couldn't believe it. And for my money they had 2 intriguing tussles. Certainly not great fights but interesting and I would say over the 24 rounds Lewis edged it by about 4/5 rounds. People now say Holyfield was shot e.t.c but they weren't saying that 12 months earlier when he was knocking 7 shades of shit out of Michael Moorer and Tyson before that. Just as they weren't saying it before he fought Tyson, Mcall e.t.c .......
It's a shame the Bowe fight never materialised but for me it doesn't harm his legacy at all, it was clearly Bowe who avoided him and that situation is also one of the issues that embodies Lewis's career, not only was Lewis taking on the best in the world, he was having to fight in the courts for the right to do so. Lewis flattened Bowe once, he would have done it again and he knew it.
That's why the criticism of Lewis 'always being in the courts' sickens me and shows how thick some people are. The guy is the first Heavyweight not to let Don King and the corrupt alphabet bodies walk all over him, those same bodies that I bet some of you claim have ruined boxing in your next breath, and all he was trying to do was fight and beat the best. And he did it.
Lennox Lewis - Top five all time great Heavyweight.
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knockout artist
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1482
- Joined: 03 Sep 2003, 13:18
I can't say i was surprised to see nasty's daft comments appear on this thread.
If Lewis was American he'd be hailed as the be all & end all of heavyweight boxing for the last ten years. I think it's a credit and a honour to Lewis that the Americans don't like him.
Afterall, if he was rubbish they wouldn't even waste their time slating him. The fact he has been so dominant is what draws the criticism.
Lennox was no spring chicken himself when fighting (and beating) Holyfield on two occasions. I don't want to bring up this long drawn out, much discussed debate again, but nasty's comments give me no option...
Frankly, how on earth can you suggest that Holyfield deserved a draw in the 2nd fight with Lewis? He didn't just get beat, he got beat heavily. He was just simply out boxed and lost the majority of rounds. Nasty also seems to ignore the fact that Lewis was robbed blind in the first fight (mainly by that black, female judge whose name I forget).
The round where Holyfield stood on the ropes and got beaten senseless for the whole three minutes (the 5th I think) she actually gave to Holyfield!!! Figure that one out!!??? What a disgrace..........
Lewis has beaten EVERY...I repeat EVERY boxer he has ever faced. Can Holyfield claim the same? With the exception of two lucky punches, he never even came close to defeat (and don't mention Klitchko unless your prepared to accept Cooper vs Ali).
McCall even closed his eyes when he threw that lucky punch as if to emphsise the luck involved......
Both defeats were avenged, and thats the Hall Mark of a great fighter....
On a P4P basis, who has lost more fights. Lewis or De La Hoya?
So when nasty is choking his chicken over the Golden Boy pehaps he shoud remember that...? THAT is Lewis' stature!!!
Disrespecting the top heavyweight champ of the last 10 years because he isn't American ( and I KNOW thats the reason why...) is exactly the sort of attitude that makes America the world's most hated nation.
Give Lewis the credit he deserves, and in the words of Ali earlier on this year....
"Lewis is now the greatest"
You can't deny the thoughts of "The Man".............
If Lewis was American he'd be hailed as the be all & end all of heavyweight boxing for the last ten years. I think it's a credit and a honour to Lewis that the Americans don't like him.
Afterall, if he was rubbish they wouldn't even waste their time slating him. The fact he has been so dominant is what draws the criticism.
Lennox was no spring chicken himself when fighting (and beating) Holyfield on two occasions. I don't want to bring up this long drawn out, much discussed debate again, but nasty's comments give me no option...
Frankly, how on earth can you suggest that Holyfield deserved a draw in the 2nd fight with Lewis? He didn't just get beat, he got beat heavily. He was just simply out boxed and lost the majority of rounds. Nasty also seems to ignore the fact that Lewis was robbed blind in the first fight (mainly by that black, female judge whose name I forget).
The round where Holyfield stood on the ropes and got beaten senseless for the whole three minutes (the 5th I think) she actually gave to Holyfield!!! Figure that one out!!??? What a disgrace..........
Lewis has beaten EVERY...I repeat EVERY boxer he has ever faced. Can Holyfield claim the same? With the exception of two lucky punches, he never even came close to defeat (and don't mention Klitchko unless your prepared to accept Cooper vs Ali).
McCall even closed his eyes when he threw that lucky punch as if to emphsise the luck involved......
Both defeats were avenged, and thats the Hall Mark of a great fighter....
On a P4P basis, who has lost more fights. Lewis or De La Hoya?
So when nasty is choking his chicken over the Golden Boy pehaps he shoud remember that...? THAT is Lewis' stature!!!
Disrespecting the top heavyweight champ of the last 10 years because he isn't American ( and I KNOW thats the reason why...) is exactly the sort of attitude that makes America the world's most hated nation.
Give Lewis the credit he deserves, and in the words of Ali earlier on this year....
"Lewis is now the greatest"
You can't deny the thoughts of "The Man".............
Sorry, Loftgroov I'm with Nasty on this one - the rematch was very close. Before the fight, I thought Holyfield would have needed a KO to win - due to the general consensus of how Lewis was robbed in the first fight (which, of course I agree with). It was hard not give Lewis the close rounds because of the raw deal he had in March, 1999.Loftgroov wrote:Lewis vs Holyfield Fight 2 Scorecard:
Scoring: 116-112, 117-111, 115-113 (Lewis UD)
nasty - "Holyfield deserved a draw at least"
At least????? ....yeah cause he only lost by 4 rounds, 6 rounds, and 2 round... IN the USA.
(so in actual fact lost by 5 rounds, 7 rounds, and 3 rounds)
However, I thought Holyfield won the rematch and I know many share this opinion. I certainly came to the conclusion that had Holyfield and Lewis faught in 1996/1997 then the American would have won.
Judges can get it wrong, judges have got it wrong. Look at the scoring in the Castillo vs Mayweather fight, while I agree the judges had the correct winner - the fight was alot closer than their score cards suggested.
Look at Chi vs Brodie, Hagler vs Leonard (yes correct winner, but one scorecard was way out). Respected journalists have complained about the scoring of Jirov vs Toney - some even arguing a case that Lights out hand shouldn't have been raised. Now, for this fight I completely agree with the judges scorecard.
It just shows how subjective scoring can be. So I just want to point out that Nasty is not alone in this argument, I would say about 35-40% of knowledgable fans I've spoken to argee with Nasty.
The rest of your post is perfectly valid and I agree whole heartedly.
Personally I would say less than that. There were also no complaints where I watched and that was in Mexico in a bar full of 200+ American fans cheering Holyfield on.stujones wrote: It just shows how subjective scoring can be. So I just want to point out that Nasty is not alone in this argument, I would say about 35-40% of knowledgable fans I've spoken to argee with Nasty.
Holyfield put up a tough display that night showing he was far from being shot, but Lewis won.
I can see you are not in that category but my point is most people who think Lewis lost that fight also think he lost to Mercer, is gay, is lucky, is chinny, is an arsehole....
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knockout artist
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1482
- Joined: 03 Sep 2003, 13:18
Yes, I thought Lewis did just do enough to beat Mercer, but I still think Holyfield won the rematch.
Loftgroov - people can have different opinions, I'm sure you weren't drunk when you scored it for Lewis. As I said, I'm in the minority but Nasty's comment that Holyfield deserved a draw in the rematch is not the most rediculous comment ever posted (cause some people agree).
On the many occasions I have watch their excellent rematch, my score card is the same..... Holyfield by 2. Yes, Lewis was more 'up for it' in the rematch, but like in the first fight still let Holyfield off the hook when he had him hurt. Holyfield did hurt Lewis on a few occasions and won these rounds because he followed up his attacks.
Loftgroov - people can have different opinions, I'm sure you weren't drunk when you scored it for Lewis. As I said, I'm in the minority but Nasty's comment that Holyfield deserved a draw in the rematch is not the most rediculous comment ever posted (cause some people agree).
On the many occasions I have watch their excellent rematch, my score card is the same..... Holyfield by 2. Yes, Lewis was more 'up for it' in the rematch, but like in the first fight still let Holyfield off the hook when he had him hurt. Holyfield did hurt Lewis on a few occasions and won these rounds because he followed up his attacks.
Stujones is right when he says that lewis was given all the close rounds but I'd add that he was given rounds that Holyfield clearly won!
Sure, Lewis did some good jabbing but the best offensive work was by Holyfield!
Lewis just didn't do anything to get exited about!
That's why I beleive that over the 2 fights, a win and a draw was right but they got the scoring wrong in both!
This tell's you clearly that a early 30's Holyfield would have easily beat Lewis on points or a late Ko!
Basically, Your gonna see the same thing with the ODH/ shane Mosely 3
Unless Mosely knocks him out, he's gonna lose on points whether he did enough to win or not!
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VOTE HOWARD DEAN FOR PRESIDENT IN 2004
http://www.deanforamerica.com/
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Sure, Lewis did some good jabbing but the best offensive work was by Holyfield!
Lewis just didn't do anything to get exited about!
That's why I beleive that over the 2 fights, a win and a draw was right but they got the scoring wrong in both!
This tell's you clearly that a early 30's Holyfield would have easily beat Lewis on points or a late Ko!
Basically, Your gonna see the same thing with the ODH/ shane Mosely 3
Unless Mosely knocks him out, he's gonna lose on points whether he did enough to win or not!
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VOTE HOWARD DEAN FOR PRESIDENT IN 2004
http://www.deanforamerica.com/
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Eric the Viking
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1354
- Joined: 03 Apr 2003, 21:40
First some notes on the recent developments:
If Lewis has decided to retire, he should vacate his title belt IMMEDIATELY - it's just not fair to a) not give Vitali a rematch, and then b) sit on the belt without lining up to fight anyone, knowing full well you have no intention of ever defending it again. Give the younger guys their shot at the glory - you've had all any man could have ever hoped for, and at this point keeping your title just so you can call yourself heavyweight champion of the world smacks of glory-hogging.
Also, I can't believe Lewis is actually suing Tyson for breach of contract for Tyson "not granting him a rematch." That just not something the guy that WON the first fight does, especially given the brutal fashion in which Lewis dispatched Tyson. The only possible reason Lewis could have for wanting a rematch is obvious: one more easy payday. But I don't think he even has any intention of stepping in the ring again (with Tyson or anyone else), so in this case we're talking about the cheapest, sleaziest kind of payday of all: the kind you get using your lawyers, not your fists. Given Tyson's well-publicized money problems, this amounts to kicking a man when he's down.
As to the Lewis legacy: to say he would've beaten (say) Joe Louis had they ever met and use that to justify placing him above an all-time great like Louis is just plain wrong, since (especially at heavyweight) it's simply not fair to use a mythical head-to-head comparison of fighters from two such widely separated eras, with such a huge size difference between the top heavyweights from then and now. All you can really ask is how did they fare against the opponents they actually faced, and what was the perceived strength of the HW division during their title reign. In those terms, it's clear that Lewis is not among the top-5 all-time. Top-20? Definitely. Top-10: possibly. Top-5? No way. Name one other all-time top-fiver who was KOed not once but twice in his prime by a pair of second-tier fighters. Yes, both of the guys that KOed Lewis were big punchers, but guys like Ali faced some monster punchers, too, and took some horrific punishment, and got back up.
If Lewis has decided to retire, he should vacate his title belt IMMEDIATELY - it's just not fair to a) not give Vitali a rematch, and then b) sit on the belt without lining up to fight anyone, knowing full well you have no intention of ever defending it again. Give the younger guys their shot at the glory - you've had all any man could have ever hoped for, and at this point keeping your title just so you can call yourself heavyweight champion of the world smacks of glory-hogging.
Also, I can't believe Lewis is actually suing Tyson for breach of contract for Tyson "not granting him a rematch." That just not something the guy that WON the first fight does, especially given the brutal fashion in which Lewis dispatched Tyson. The only possible reason Lewis could have for wanting a rematch is obvious: one more easy payday. But I don't think he even has any intention of stepping in the ring again (with Tyson or anyone else), so in this case we're talking about the cheapest, sleaziest kind of payday of all: the kind you get using your lawyers, not your fists. Given Tyson's well-publicized money problems, this amounts to kicking a man when he's down.
As to the Lewis legacy: to say he would've beaten (say) Joe Louis had they ever met and use that to justify placing him above an all-time great like Louis is just plain wrong, since (especially at heavyweight) it's simply not fair to use a mythical head-to-head comparison of fighters from two such widely separated eras, with such a huge size difference between the top heavyweights from then and now. All you can really ask is how did they fare against the opponents they actually faced, and what was the perceived strength of the HW division during their title reign. In those terms, it's clear that Lewis is not among the top-5 all-time. Top-20? Definitely. Top-10: possibly. Top-5? No way. Name one other all-time top-fiver who was KOed not once but twice in his prime by a pair of second-tier fighters. Yes, both of the guys that KOed Lewis were big punchers, but guys like Ali faced some monster punchers, too, and took some horrific punishment, and got back up.
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Riddick Bowie
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 958
- Joined: 19 Jul 2003, 07:25
nasty wrote:
All the guys who would have beat him self destructed or were over the hill when they fought lewis
Mike Tyson - Way past his best and came into fight in terrible shape!
EVander Holyfield - 37 year's old when fought lewis and way past his prime and like stu say, Holyfield derserved at least a draw in 2nd fight!
Riddock Bowe - Pretty much self destructed by his eating disorder and crazy antics outside ring
Ike Ibeabuchi - Self destructed by being corrupted by LAS VEGAS
Oliver McCall - Mentally destroyed by years of crack, I, like many others, believe he would have ko'd lewis in rematch if it wasn't for the Crack withdrawal symtom's
I sure i could of a few others as well!
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surely one of the most pathetically biased and hate filled posts of all time.
so mike tyson was way past his best? yet when selling andrew golota(a boxer you like), you say it was fine to get blown out by 'The Greatest Heavywweight The World Has Ever Seen', but when lennox completey anihilates tyson a year later, he's an old has been and the win means nothing?
holyfield was also way past his best? watch holyfield v lewis, then holyfield v toney, and you will the difference between a dangerous heavyweight and a washed up one. holyfield was The Man in 1999, riding high off his major wins over tyson and moorer yet all of a sudden hes a pathetic has been, just because lewis beats him.
you even mention lamest of the lame riddick bowe, who was waxed in 2 rds by lewis in the olympics and ran from him in the pros, and got retired by man subsequently wiped out in 1 rd by lewis.
then you lower it even more with ike frickin ibeabuchi. please, get over this guy. what the hell did he ever do to show he was a match for lennox lewis?
winning a razor thin debatable decision over david tua makes ike a God, yet when lennox lewis completely kicks tuas ass in 12 dominant effortless rds lewis gets no credit? ike waxes chris byrd who got his ass kicked by wlad klitschko and fres oquendo and somehow ike is a match for lewis?
oliver mccall........ pathetic. it was all the 'crack'. funny, i've never seen lionel butler, tony tubbs, mike hunter, bert cooper, john tate, michael nunn, sugar ray leonard and all the other crack abusers walk around the ring crying because they're getting their ass kicked.
mccall came to try his luck again. greg page said 'mccall is in better shape for this fight than the first fight'. he tried knock lewis's block off in the first 2 rds. he knew it wasnt happening and lewis was kicking his ass so he quit like a dog. and i LIKE mccall.
your logic is anybody who loses to lennox lewis is that they mustve either be washed up or lewis got lucky, as if lewsi has ever needed luck.
Nice...Neil (The Bounty) Hunter wrote: surely one of the most pathetically biased and hate filled posts of all time.
so mike tyson was way past his best? yet when selling andrew golota(a boxer you like), you say it was fine to get blown out by 'The Greatest Heavywweight The World Has Ever Seen', but when lennox completey anihilates tyson a year later, he's an old has been and the win means nothing?
holyfield was also way past his best? watch holyfield v lewis, then holyfield v toney, and you will the difference between a dangerous heavyweight and a washed up one. holyfield was The Man in 1999, riding high off his major wins over tyson and moorer yet all of a sudden hes a pathetic has been, just because lewis beats him.
you even mention lamest of the lame riddick bowe, who was waxed in 2 rds by lewis in the olympics and ran from him in the pros, and got retired by man subsequently wiped out in 1 rd by lewis.
then you lower it even more with ike frickin ibeabuchi. please, get over this guy. what the hell did he ever do to show he was a match for lennox lewis?
winning a razor thin debatable decision over david tua makes ike a God, yet when lennox lewis completely kicks tuas ass in 12 dominant effortless rds lewis gets no credit? ike waxes chris byrd who got his ass kicked by wlad klitschko and fres oquendo and somehow ike is a match for lewis?
oliver mccall........ pathetic. it was all the 'crack'. funny, i've never seen lionel butler, tony tubbs, mike hunter, bert cooper, john tate, michael nunn, sugar ray leonard and all the other crack abusers walk around the ring crying because they're getting their ass kicked.
mccall came to try his luck again. greg page said 'mccall is in better shape for this fight than the first fight'. he tried knock lewis's block off in the first 2 rds. he knew it wasnt happening and lewis was kicking his ass so he quit like a dog. and i LIKE mccall.
your logic is anybody who loses to lennox lewis is that they mustve either be washed up or lewis got lucky, as if lewsi has ever needed luck.
Very well put, and some very valid points and for the most part I'm in COMPLETE agreeance. For me, Lewis' legacy was sealed when he beat two of the so called big guns of the next generation (Tua and Grant), which you mentioned.Neil (The Bounty) Hunter wrote: surely one of the most pathetically biased and hate filled posts of all time.
so mike tyson was way past his best? yet when selling andrew golota(a boxer you like), you say it was fine to get blown out by 'The Greatest Heavywweight The World Has Ever Seen', but when lennox completey anihilates tyson a year later, he's an old has been and the win means nothing?
holyfield was also way past his best? watch holyfield v lewis, then holyfield v toney, and you will the difference between a dangerous heavyweight and a washed up one. holyfield was The Man in 1999, riding high off his major wins over tyson and moorer yet all of a sudden hes a pathetic has been, just because lewis beats him.
you even mention lamest of the lame riddick bowe, who was waxed in 2 rds by lewis in the olympics and ran from him in the pros, and got retired by man subsequently wiped out in 1 rd by lewis.
then you lower it even more with ike frickin ibeabuchi. please, get over this guy. what the hell did he ever do to show he was a match for lennox lewis?
winning a razor thin debatable decision over david tua makes ike a God, yet when lennox lewis completely kicks tuas ass in 12 dominant effortless rds lewis gets no credit? ike waxes chris byrd who got his ass kicked by wlad klitschko and fres oquendo and somehow ike is a match for lewis?
oliver mccall........ pathetic. it was all the 'crack'. funny, i've never seen lionel butler, tony tubbs, mike hunter, bert cooper, john tate, michael nunn, sugar ray leonard and all the other crack abusers walk around the ring crying because they're getting their ass kicked.
mccall came to try his luck again. greg page said 'mccall is in better shape for this fight than the first fight'. he tried knock lewis's block off in the first 2 rds. he knew it wasnt happening and lewis was kicking his ass so he quit like a dog. and i LIKE mccall.
your logic is anybody who loses to lennox lewis is that they mustve either be washed up or lewis got lucky, as if lewsi has ever needed luck.
However, my one slight disagreement is again on the Holyfield saga. No doubt Holyfield in 1999 was a far better fighter than the guy who can't fight more than 20 seconds now. However, I do believe that he was still a fading force in 1999. You mention his impressive victories over Tyson (in 1996) and Moorer (in 1997). However, I think the signs of wear and tear were first evident when he faught Vaughan Bean in 1998. So while, Holyfield was still a good fighter (cause anyone who gives Lewis trouble in undoubtely good) in 1999, I think he was still on the slide (as his performances since then have suggested).
Also, can't a fighter become Old overnight, some people say that's what happend to Lewis vs Klitchko. Not saying I agree with these posters but these people have a valid point - cause it wasn't the same fighter who gave Tyson a kicking 12 months previously.
Azumah Nelson is another fighter, one time he was favoured to beat Naseem Hamed (seemingly back to his best when he beat Reulas). However, then it was like he lost two steps when Henandez regained the crown.
But overall a good post, Neill.
What always baffles me since the Klitchko fight is that a clearly under-prepared Lewis was given a fairly hard time yet still had the skill (to cause the cuts on Vitali) to come out on top.
Yet...people screaming for a rematch seem to think it's merely so Vitali can wipe the floor with Lewis after being cheated out of it last time (much in the same way Cooper was cheated out of beating Ali by the same logic...)
Think about it.....
If there is a rematch, and Lewis DOES prepare well, and DOESN'T take the match lightly, Klitchko will be KO'd inside of 5 rounds.
Look what happend to Golota and Mavrovic. It would be the same sort of result.....
Yet...people screaming for a rematch seem to think it's merely so Vitali can wipe the floor with Lewis after being cheated out of it last time (much in the same way Cooper was cheated out of beating Ali by the same logic...)
Think about it.....
If there is a rematch, and Lewis DOES prepare well, and DOESN'T take the match lightly, Klitchko will be KO'd inside of 5 rounds.
Look what happend to Golota and Mavrovic. It would be the same sort of result.....
Agreed, thats why I'd like to see him fight him.Loftgroov wrote:What always baffles me since the Klitchko fight is that a clearly under-prepared Lewis was given a fairly hard time yet still had the skill (to cause the cuts on Vitali) to come out on top.
Yet...people screaming for a rematch seem to think it's merely so Vitali can wipe the floor with Lewis after being cheated out of it last time (much in the same way Cooper was cheated out of beating Ali by the same logic...)
Think about it.....
If there is a rematch, and Lewis DOES prepare well, and DOESN'T take the match lightly, Klitchko will be KO'd inside of 5 rounds.
Look what happend to Golota and Mavrovic. It would be the same sort of result.....