Ok, firstly let me state that this thread is in no way to suggest that british trainers are anything less than dedicated professionals, though the point of debate is thus;
People always, and have always, talked of the gulf in talent between "The Americans" and "The British" when it comes to boxing, in general. American middleweights are better than British middleweights, and so on.....(generally speaking)
A top domestic British fighter, lets say Ricky hatton, is nearly always touted to lose should he ever wonder over the other side of the pond, and invariably they do.
Therefore doesn't this raise a question that the training methods adopted by British trainers are inferior to those of their American counterparts? If not then the only other reason would be that 'Americans are bigger, tougher, stronger, "naturally more skillfull", than Britons'. This of course is nonsense.
So on the assumption that American trainers/training methods/gyms are superior to Britains, why aren't British trainers and indeed British boxers looking to copy/emulate the 'American way' in order to become competitive on a world level?
A few years back the England Rugby team was inferior to their southern hemisphere counterparts. They then went out of their way to adopt their fitness techniques, expansive gameplay, strategies, and so on and are now ranked alongside them.
Why can't British boxing follow suit?
Is it a question of resources? funding? skills & knowledge of British trainers, or British trainers refusing to budge from "their way of doing things."?
Your views?
British Training Methods - Room for Improvement?
Nice thread.
IMO its resources primarily (sparring - there aren't enough boxers in the UK for us to get the sparring).
Secondly its background, while the mean streets of London, Manchester an so on are no doubtedly tough. It really is nothing like that of Brooklyn.
Thirdly, it the US circuit, again more fighters mean more learning fight. While I'm sure there a more completely inept fighters out there, there are also some solid (better than ours) journeymen. Meaning that the good fighters learn gradually, not crossing as many huge Bridges between average and elite.
Look at Eastman, his best wins prior to Joppy were Steve Foster and Robert McCraken. Now I'm sure there would have been plenty of fighters in the states who would have provided a better Bridge between domestic level and elite.
Finally, its the proffesional approach of the elite Americans. If you have read Oscar De La Hoya's approach, look at his entourage. He has fitness advicers, tactical advicers, sports scientists, sport psychologists, physiotherapists, chiefs and nutritionalists, plus many others. He take 14 supplements pills everyday (including 1 that he believes reduces the risk of Brain damage).
Put it this way, you won't see him with a beer gut, holding a guiness in his hand. Watch Superstars this week and you'll see why were not good enough. Paul Ingle, renouned for being our best trainer but would need 3months of solid training just to lose the 3 stone he'd gained through partying and enjoying himself.
DLH and American based fighters such as McCoullough and Stone could probably fight tommorow (e.g. be on the weight), why becuase they treat it as a job - training, sparring, ticking over EVERY DAY regardless of when they fight.
Whether its their highly paid coaches which have installed this, or they're innate attitidude, I'm not sure - but one thing I'm know, the Brits don't do it.
Its just more proffesional over there. Exactly, like the English Rugby team. The Welsh team, still appreciate a pint or two after the match. I'm afraid it aint going to get them anywhere.
I'm not saying the top British trainers are not good enough, cause I think if they are. Its just the fighters there are more professional in the approach (I'm talking the P4P type fighters now - there's more who aren't).
Its all down to attidude.
IMO its resources primarily (sparring - there aren't enough boxers in the UK for us to get the sparring).
Secondly its background, while the mean streets of London, Manchester an so on are no doubtedly tough. It really is nothing like that of Brooklyn.
Thirdly, it the US circuit, again more fighters mean more learning fight. While I'm sure there a more completely inept fighters out there, there are also some solid (better than ours) journeymen. Meaning that the good fighters learn gradually, not crossing as many huge Bridges between average and elite.
Look at Eastman, his best wins prior to Joppy were Steve Foster and Robert McCraken. Now I'm sure there would have been plenty of fighters in the states who would have provided a better Bridge between domestic level and elite.
Finally, its the proffesional approach of the elite Americans. If you have read Oscar De La Hoya's approach, look at his entourage. He has fitness advicers, tactical advicers, sports scientists, sport psychologists, physiotherapists, chiefs and nutritionalists, plus many others. He take 14 supplements pills everyday (including 1 that he believes reduces the risk of Brain damage).
Put it this way, you won't see him with a beer gut, holding a guiness in his hand. Watch Superstars this week and you'll see why were not good enough. Paul Ingle, renouned for being our best trainer but would need 3months of solid training just to lose the 3 stone he'd gained through partying and enjoying himself.
DLH and American based fighters such as McCoullough and Stone could probably fight tommorow (e.g. be on the weight), why becuase they treat it as a job - training, sparring, ticking over EVERY DAY regardless of when they fight.
Whether its their highly paid coaches which have installed this, or they're innate attitidude, I'm not sure - but one thing I'm know, the Brits don't do it.
Its just more proffesional over there. Exactly, like the English Rugby team. The Welsh team, still appreciate a pint or two after the match. I'm afraid it aint going to get them anywhere.
I'm not saying the top British trainers are not good enough, cause I think if they are. Its just the fighters there are more professional in the approach (I'm talking the P4P type fighters now - there's more who aren't).
Its all down to attidude.
I think the British are slow in taking things on board. Maybe it's because we're an island, but we do seem to feel our way is okay and the rest can do it whichever way they want. But there's no doubt that American trainers are better than ours, especially nowadays. I would say, apart from Chris Aston, Adam Booth, Frank Black, Brendan Ingle, Billy Graham, and one or two others, we have never had more of an absence of technique trainers than we have right now. We have a lot of conditoners, but anyone can hold a stopwatch and sling a towel over their shoulder.
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celticwarrior
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 105
- Joined: 30 Oct 2003, 09:57
I agree with Stu it's down to the sparring fighters can get in the U.S. and the attitude to pro boxing over there where it's seen as a full time job. Take for example Ricky Hatton, lovely guy and good for the sport but he only trains for the 6 weeks prior to a fight. Say he fights on average 3 times a year then he's only in the gym for 18 weeks out of 52. He likes a drink and tends to blow up between fights but if he was in the gym full time just ticking over then he could add a couple of years to his career. There was an obvious example of this a few weeks back in Boxing News where an article on weight making was accompanied by a picture of a gaunt, sinewy Hatton weighing in. At the back of the same issue on the letters page a letter regarding Hatton was accompanied by a picture of Hatton at a press conference to announce a fight (i.e. before he went into training for it.) In the pic he had a prominent double chin and his face looked puffy in general. The contrast between the two pictures was amazing.
Other examples of this are Eamonn Magee and Scott Harrison. Like Hatton when they do get down to it they train like demons but I was told that after winning the title against Chacon (in October of last year) Harrison didn't see the inside of the gym until the following January when he started preparations for McCullough. Like Hatton he's partial to a pint or two but surely if he was in the gym 5 days a week (like any decent amateur would) between fights he wouldn't have such a monumental struggle to make weight.
Other examples of this are Eamonn Magee and Scott Harrison. Like Hatton when they do get down to it they train like demons but I was told that after winning the title against Chacon (in October of last year) Harrison didn't see the inside of the gym until the following January when he started preparations for McCullough. Like Hatton he's partial to a pint or two but surely if he was in the gym 5 days a week (like any decent amateur would) between fights he wouldn't have such a monumental struggle to make weight.
Paul Ingle was the example I was most surprised with - didn't Maloney say that prior to his near (thankfully) tragic fight, he didn't have time to do much sparring cause he spent most of his time running and trying to lose the weight.
We must be more PROFFESIONAL.
But Bennie's correct also about the coaches, it would have been nice that when Danny Williams went over to America, he could have taken McDonnell over to learn with him.
That 'the fight' (Grant Bovey vs David Brent) programme was quite interesting, I couldn't believe that McDonnell was assessing Bovey's fitness 3 weeks before his first contest. Maloney had it spot on (and I don't class him a coach), in a situation like that (with complete novice's) you must get the sparring in.
Also, another point (one in which I know about personally), MANY of our amaeteur coaches are comlpetely inept. I've got some stories of my amaeteur coach but I won't put them here.
We must be more PROFFESIONAL.
But Bennie's correct also about the coaches, it would have been nice that when Danny Williams went over to America, he could have taken McDonnell over to learn with him.
That 'the fight' (Grant Bovey vs David Brent) programme was quite interesting, I couldn't believe that McDonnell was assessing Bovey's fitness 3 weeks before his first contest. Maloney had it spot on (and I don't class him a coach), in a situation like that (with complete novice's) you must get the sparring in.
Also, another point (one in which I know about personally), MANY of our amaeteur coaches are comlpetely inept. I've got some stories of my amaeteur coach but I won't put them here.
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Southpaw Stylist
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1484
- Joined: 19 Jul 2003, 04:50
I agree with most of what's been said so far. Also though you go into an amateur gym and you'll see some kid whacking the pads or sparring, and they'll have NO concept of defense. In America, the best trainers teach defense before offense. In the UK it's the other way round. Also, the mentality of British people is wrong. We (not me) look at fighters and are in awe of them thinking that we could never do what they do, whereas Americans are inspired by their heroes and go to the gym every day and imitate what they see trying to be just like their idols. Also the competitive nature of Britain isn't as strong as over there, but I think that's down to population. I mean it's easy to become "King of the gym" in small amateur gyms in england, but in the US the gyms are bigger and there's more competition.
It sounds from your views that its all a question of attitude & profssionalism.
This does suggest that is significant room for improvement in the British set-up, and professional boxers here should look to adopt the American psyche when it comes to training.
Is there a lack of desire then on the part of many pro British boxers?
Are we (they) content with British titles and half decent pay cheques without wishing to put in the hard work and utter dedication to become world champions?
Any British boxer will say "I dream of becoming a world champion", yet how many of them match their desire with a dedicated "52-weeks of the year lifestyle" to obtain it?
This does suggest that is significant room for improvement in the British set-up, and professional boxers here should look to adopt the American psyche when it comes to training.
Is there a lack of desire then on the part of many pro British boxers?
Are we (they) content with British titles and half decent pay cheques without wishing to put in the hard work and utter dedication to become world champions?
Any British boxer will say "I dream of becoming a world champion", yet how many of them match their desire with a dedicated "52-weeks of the year lifestyle" to obtain it?