appreciating Hopkins

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 16 Dec 2003, 07:36

Has fought the top 3 fighters at his weight:

- William Joppy (won pretty much every round)
- Keith Holmes (won pretty much every round)
- Felix Trinidad (won pretty much every round then stopped him in the last)

- hasnt lost in 10 1/2 years
- World champ for 9 years
- 17 world title defences
- only two losses in a 15 year career. one is his pro debut over 4 rounds at light heavyweight, the second a 116-112 ( 8 rounds to 4) decision to arguably the best fighter since sugar ray robinsom, Roy Jones Junior.

not many fighters can boast those kind of stats!!!!

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 16 Dec 2003, 08:00

I agree, a truly great fighter.

Great is a word often misplaced when talking out fighters, but not in this case.

A sure thing for entry into the HOF as soon as he is eligible.

A better fighter now than when he lost to Jones.

A rarity in modern Boxing insofar as he has stayed at the same weight his whole career.

Would have competed with any Middleweight Champion in History and would have beaten many of them.

The best Middleweight of his generation.

I'd pay good money to see him fight in England.

I'd love him to come and fight Eastman.

Could make it PPV and put it on at the Royal Albert Hall or Manchester.

In an ideal world you would have Hatton fighting Zoo on the same bill.

I loved his post fight (Joppy) interview. He kept calling Wally Matthews "Matthews".

A great great fighter.

DIRT SUGAR · Post by **DIRT SUGAR** » 16 Dec 2003, 08:03

He's in great nick for a 38-year-old that's for sure. Hopkins is one of the most versatile fighters around. Can do a bit of everything and against Joppy was in great form considering his lack of fights since beating Trinidad.

The fact that Roy Jones was the only guy to beat him shows how good Bernard is. Roy showed Hopkins a lot of respect that night and just boxed to win and outsped Hopkins.

Hopkins and Jones IMO are the only two guys who would have had a chance of beating likes of a peak Leonard, Hagler, Hearns and Duran.

I mean, Hopkins is very consistent and gets the job done no matter what and when you look at how John Ruiz bullied Rahman about the other day it gives you an indication how good Jones was against the much bigger Ruiz.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 16 Dec 2003, 08:20

Yes you have to give Hopkins his due as a great fighter, but I still don't think he ranks up there with Monzon and Hagler, no matter how many defences the record books show he made.
Up untill 1999 he was making IBF defences against some pretty forgetable competition in a watered down division.
It doesn't compare to Monzon & Hagler defending their undisputed titles.

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 16 Dec 2003, 08:40

MightyWarrior wrote:Yes you have to give Hopkins his due as a great fighter, but I still don't think he ranks up there with Monzon and Hagler, no matter how many defences the record books show he made.
Up untill 1999 he was making IBF defences against some pretty forgetable competition in a watered down division.
It doesn't compare to Monzon & Hagler defending their undisputed titles.

I can see where you are coming from and I love Hagler too, but Marvin was judged to have lost to Ray Leonard, a former Welterweight champion who was inactive for 3 years and was knocked down by Kevin Howard in his previous fight.

Marvin also struggled with Roberto Duran, a former lightweight champion who had lost to Kirkland Laing the previous year.

Marvin also fought Thomas Hearns who was having his first fight at Middleweight and John Mugabi who had mostly campaigned at 154.

I'm being over critical but I really do feel that Hopkins would have been at least competetive with Hagler and Mozon. Remember Monzon had his share of close decisions as well.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 16 Dec 2003, 08:58

Knockout, you're right in saying that Hagler did fight a few light middles who moved up ( but they were all time greats all the same ) but I'd say Mugabi and Hearns would've been a fearsome proposition for any middleweight in history.
And Leonard was an awesome fighter, better than Roy Jones IMO.

Interestingly Duran was at the Hopkins fight on Saturday night, and said Hagler was the best fighter he ever faced. I think Thomas Hauser is doing a story on it.
Monzon might be best of the lot though - goes to Italy and beats Benvenutti, who'd had over 80 wins, in his home town, then beats guys like Valdez, Briscoe, Griffith..
Hop beating Mercado for the IBF title just doesn't compare...

I know it's all subjective - after all Hopkins can only beat the best of his era. So I'll leave it at that

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 16 Dec 2003, 09:20

MightyWarrior wrote:Knockout, you're right in saying that Hagler did fight a few light middles who moved up ( but they were all time greats all the same ) but I'd say Mugabi and Hearns would've been a fearsome proposition for any middleweight in history.
And Leonard was an awesome fighter, better than Roy Jones IMO.

Interestingly Duran was at the Hopkins fight on Saturday night, and said Hagler was the best fighter he ever faced. I think Thomas Hauser is doing a story on it.
Monzon might be best of the lot though - goes to Italy and beats Benvenutti, who'd had over 80 wins, in his home town, then beats guys like Valdez, Briscoe, Griffith..
Hop beating Mercado for the IBF title just doesn't compare...

I know it's all subjective - after all Hopkins can only beat the best of his era. So I'll leave it at that

Well put

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 16 Dec 2003, 21:47

There was a time when the P4P rankings was done on sky - Bunce was working there at the time and said each of those fighters deserves to be mentioned alongside the all time greats of their weight devision and will be rememeber across history. I hole heartedly agree with him.

I think the ten at the time (in no order) were.

Jones, Barrera, Hopkins, Tszyu, Mosely, Trinidad, De La Hoya, Lopez, Morales, Mayweather.

I agree these fighters are already amongst the greatest in the weight devision of all time and can be mentioned in the same breath as the greatest in their devision. I think the current P4P list includes fighters who haven't quite done enough to earn themselves their places (guys like Pacquiao, Freitas, Maryorga (was), Forrest (was) and Spinks - haven't done enough to be mentioned alongside the greats of their devision.

There are 3 current champions not on the list above who deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as the greats of their devision (IMO). Lennox Lewis for sure, Resondo Alvarez is all time great (like the Hopkins of the flyweights in many respects), and possibly James Toney now warrants that acclaim.

Lugh · Post by **Lugh** » 17 Dec 2003, 05:14

A couple of points.

I reckon his longevity (a bit hackneyed but hey!) is due to his pre-boxing existence - he is clearly an intelligent man and has a clearer picture of what awaits those that don't grasp their chances in life - common enough boxing background but with the intellect to perceive the "choices" to be made. The fact that he has made Middleweight his entire career is evidence of that consistency of sacrifice.

How would he have done with Hagler?

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 17 Dec 2003, 07:19

stujones wrote:There was a time when the P4P rankings was done on sky - Bunce was working there at the time and said each of those fighters deserves to be mentioned alongside the all time greats of their weight devision and will be rememeber across history. I hole heartedly agree with him.

I think the ten at the time (in no order) were.

Jones, Barrera, Hopkins, Tszyu, Mosely, Trinidad, De La Hoya, Lopez, Morales, Mayweather.

I agree these fighters are already amongst the greatest in the weight devision of all time and can be mentioned in the same breath as the greatest in their devision. I think the current P4P list includes fighters who haven't quite done enough to earn themselves their places (guys like Pacquiao, Freitas, Maryorga (was), Forrest (was) and Spinks - haven't done enough to be mentioned alongside the greats of their devision.

There are 3 current champions not on the list above who deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as the greats of their devision (IMO). Lennox Lewis for sure, Resondo Alvarez is all time great (like the Hopkins of the flyweights in many respects), and possibly James Toney now warrants that acclaim.

Toney would be one of the first on my list.

Not sure I'd put Moseley on the list.