Biggest let down in British boxing.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 28 Dec 2003, 16:03

These past couple of years we have seen a number of fighters who have been hyped up and look the goods but fail when on the verge of big things and championship fights. In recent times I would say that Ryan Rhodes, Gary Lockett, Richard Williams, James Hare, Spencer Oliver (although not entirely his fault), Danny Williams, Howard Eastman have all lost crucially when people (and I mean boxing experts, not just their promoters) start to comment that they are "the real deal" and "have got all the shots".

This thread is designed for us to discuss who you have felt was the biggest letdown in British boxing? Who did you feel had it all, only to fail in the big fights? Who, even after they lost still think about "what happend with him".

I have to say, I was very dissapointed with James Hare's defeat, I really did (and still do) believe he is the most naturally gifted boxer that we have had since Naseem Hamed. He does things that you cannot teach and I really did think that if Mayorga, Spinks, Forrest and Margarito move up (which is likely in the near future) Hare would be there to pick up the belts.

One of my first dissapointments (and people may laugh at me for this) was Gary Stretch, I really did think he was a very skilled boxer, and I did expect big things from him. Okay, he was never going to beat a Don Curry or Mike McCallum (who were the main men when he was at his best) but he was a good bit fresher than them, and I did foolishly think he could have won a version of the world title. Of course, the likes of Terry Norris would have put paid to that, but still I have to say I did feel let down by him.

Any opinions.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 28 Dec 2003, 16:18

Good post. One of the biggest disappointments in British boxing had to be John Conteh. He won a world title in October 1974, but like so many of our world champions, once he made it, felt he made it on his own. He fell out with his management, left his trainer, bust his hand in a non-title fight, and never really recovered.
He had the whole world at his feet that stirring October night in 1974 when he trounced Argentina's rugged Jorge Ahumada for the vacant WBC title. By 1975, it was all over bar the shouting. In the end, he lost his title in a place a fighter should never lose it: in the courtrooms.
He was our biggest waste of talent in my opinion. Mickey Duff still says he was the most talented fighter he ever handled and should have achieved so much more than he did.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 28 Dec 2003, 16:24

bennie wrote:Good post. One of the biggest disappointments in British boxing had to be John Conteh. He won a world title in October 1974, but like so many of our world champions, once he made it, felt he made it on his own. He fell out with his management, left his trainer, bust his hand in a non-title fight, and never really recovered.
He had the whole world at his feet that stirring October night in 1974 when he trounced Argentina's rugged Jorge Ahumada for the vacant WBC title. By 1975, it was all over bar the shouting. In the end, he lost his title in a place a fighter should never lose it: in the courtrooms.
He was our biggest waste of talent in my opinion. Mickey Duff still says he was the most talented fighter he ever handled and should have achieved so much more than he did.

Yes, very true but whilst Conteh could have been an absolute mega star with his charisma and looks (the DLH of his day), he did become the George Best of boxing.

However, while I do feel let down by Conteh, he still won a major version of the title (in the days when there was only 2 versions to be had) so I can never take that away. So he is also one of the great achievers in British boxing.

Viewing tapes and listening to stories, I have always had this feeling that if Conteh would haven't reined for an over long period due to a weakness in his chin and some exceptional Light Heavyweights that were coming up, like Franklin, Johnson and Spinks.

Steve M · Post by **Steve M** » 28 Dec 2003, 16:33

Of the currently active fighters i think Eastman has let his best years go past and may regret the joppy defeat.

Wasn't Errol Christie pretty hyped up until thte Kaylor fight?.I never saw him fight though.

Chris Eubank- He had a good career but i would have liked him to take a fight with one of the better american fighters of the time like Toney or Nunn instead of just defending the WBO belt.

If the Bomber had been able to get the big fights in the early 80s i think he could have enjoyed a really good run.I don't understand how it took him so long to get his world title shots.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 28 Dec 2003, 16:41

Steve M wrote:Wasn't Errol Christie pretty hyped up until thte Kaylor fight?.I never saw him fight though.

Yes another one, again he was a little bit before my time and I only saw him when his chin had completely gone, but yes he's another fighter my father and other boxing fans revel "that he had it all", and then ask "why did he f up".

Errol has been advertising his services as a personal boxing trainer in boxing magazines recently, I have been quite tempted to give it a call just for him to assess me. Anybody know if he's doing coaching somebody now.

I hope he's doing well.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 28 Dec 2003, 18:38

John Conteh sprung to mind for me too, but at least he won a world title in a division which was full of talent.

Kirkland Laing by contrast did absolutely fornicate all with the amazing natural talent he had, and surely must be the biggest letdown of the last few decades.

Kieran · Post by **Kieran** » 29 Dec 2003, 06:32

Stu,
If we are talking 2003 and I appreciate your thread was not intending this, I've got to say it's been a shocker for Sports Network.
Steve Murray, Wayne Alexander, Takaloo, Wayne Elcock, and perhaps the worst of all, the totally over hyped Amazing (don't think so ) Alex Arthur.
Then there's Steve Roberts, David Walker etc from other camps.
This year has been the worst in a long time for me, due to the number of failures.
That said, is this simply due to over hype in the first place ?
Every year there has always been one or two shockers, and yes, to metion Ryan Rhodes is correct - but that was a few years ago now.
As a loyal Sheffield boxing fan, despite all he achieved, my greatest disappointment is (was) Naz.
He had it all.
I saw him develop from 11 years old, and I've never ever seen nor will I ever again, so much natural talent.
Retrospective viewing of boxing is a wonderful thing, but why oh why he left the camp, regardless of all the other rhubarb going on is beyond me.
He never was (is) as good for me from that point on.
We had here as a country the chance to have a boxer who was truly the best in the world (forget all the poxy alphabet soup) and it diappeared before our eyes.

pbrennan · Post by **pbrennan** » 29 Dec 2003, 07:09

It has to be Nassem - we will never produce another fighter with so much talent and potential. He could have fulfilled his dream to win titles all the way up to Lightweight.

He never trained and yet dominated a division for five years. The writing should have been on the wall from Kelly onwards, but as long as he kept winning he was still "the man".

After his performance against Sanchez, it should have been obvious that MAB would need better preperation.

The most disappointing thing has been after Barrara when he needed to rise to the challange -he faded into oblivion, to choruses of good riddance and I told you so from accross the Atlantic.

We will never have another fighter with Nassems potential and he has definently been the biggest let down in British Boxing.

Twinkle Toes · Post by **Twinkle Toes** » 29 Dec 2003, 09:03

Big names aside, Adrian Dodson was a big let down.

I really did expect big things from him.

Southpaw Stylist · Post by **Southpaw Stylist** » 29 Dec 2003, 10:36

I disagree that Naz could've gone up to Lightweight and won titles. He is a small featherweight. Imagine him against the likes of Phillip N'dou who ain't even the best Lightweight.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 29 Dec 2003, 11:39

i think naz should have stayed around a bit longer at bantam and super bantam he never really had the frame to go up to lightweight i mean he was only 5"3 but going straight up to feather denied him the opportunity of winning titles at more than one weight division.

the thing that really disappoints with naz is the way he has just disappeared without trace and without even so much as an announcement to say what he's doing, he's just buggered off and thats that i think we all deserved better than that. :x

i suppose the biggest waste was herol graham he had so much talent but because of his extremely awkward style

every1 avoided him so during his peak years of the early to mid 80's he was left defending that european title and not making any headway and when his chances finally did come they were against excellent fighters and herol was a tad past his best

i'd go as far as saying graham was one of the best fighters never to win a world title not just one of the best british.

Steve M · Post by **Steve M** » 29 Dec 2003, 12:37

Wasn't hagler stripped of 2 of his belts for not facing Graham?.looking at the length of time Graham was Euro middle champ and the time between Hagler's fight with Mugabi and Leonard it was over a year.If hagler had fought his no 1 contender as he should have then the Leonard fight could have been billed as the fight that would see Hagler equal Monzon's record(that is unless i have the math totally wrong here).Seeing as how much those belts meant to hagler i think there is a good case that he was ducking Graham and going for the payday.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 29 Dec 2003, 14:32

thats always been one of those long debated points for british boxing fans would herol graham have beaten the 86/87 hagler 8)

i think he would have had a damn good chance, hagler was slowing up and he struggled with an out and out mover in leonard, but unfortunately that time machine from back to the future wasn't real :(

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 29 Dec 2003, 15:31

Yes, I bought the Adrian Dodson hype every time he was remarketed. I'd probably still would if Sky did a PR job on him and put him in with Tony Dodson.

Another one (and I applogies to Keiran/Beagle for this) has to be Johnny Nelson. Yes, 10+ defences of a pretty decent world belt is a great achievement and he must recieve some credit. Its just I was in another board (a number of years ago) and I got lambasted (by Brits and non-brits) for saying that Johnny will proove himself the #1 cruiser. Physically he has it all, great size, speed and respect power and with these advantages I would have liked to have seen him fight better opposition during his reign.

He was so impressive against Carl Thompson and looked like he rejuvenated his career and looked ready for the likes of Hill, Gomez and Jirov but in truth, he hasn't made the most of his reign and some of his performances against medocore opposition have made me question if he could have beaten the other champions.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 29 Dec 2003, 17:14

yeah if only nelson would fight every fight the way he fought carl thompson he'd be a bloody world beater, but he's fallen into his old ways again

ol yeah and can we please c nelson-thompson 2 i'm still fuming this fight was never made

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 29 Dec 2003, 17:41

hitman_hatton1 wrote:yeah if only nelson would fight every fight the way he fought carl thompson he'd be a bloody world beater, but he's fallen into his old ways again

ol yeah and can we please c nelson-thompson 2 i'm still fuming this fight was never made

This is a strange fight for me, Nelson started off well but seemed to drop off the pace and was letting Thompson off the hook. People talk about some massive performance but i don't remember it that way at all (i could be wrong it has been a while!) but when the fight was stopped Thompson was shipping a lot of punishment on the gloves and few landed actual flush and i remember some people even questioned the stoppage. All i am trying to say is it may not have all been as rosy as we think.

Kieran · Post by **Kieran** » 30 Dec 2003, 06:40

The truth about Johnny is that he consistantly only tries to do just enough to succeed.
That is why, when the chips are down, he often delivers.
The Thompson fight is a prime example.
That fight took 2 YEARS to make, all as a result of Thompson refusing to take the fight.
As a result, he put in a performance to ensure there would be no mistakes.
Would you give Thompson another chance knowing this ?
Another good example is his last fight in Germany.
Again he knew that he had to either be miles ahead on the score sheets, and end up winning by the odd round, or put the kid down for a count of 15.
Again, he delivered.
Again it is a fact that Johnny and his promotor have been desperate to make the big fights happen, but the truth is these guys want no piece of Nelson.
He seeks that defining fight, but sadly, I can't see it happening now.
He's earned well from the game, and I tell you what the history books can't lie, and he'll get out of this business without a mark on him.
He has a media career ahead of him.
When he first came in the gym no one gave him a prayer of making it, and that was underlined by his first 6 or so fights !
Johnny is a manufactured boxer.
He was not blessed with an abundance of natural talent, so I can't find it in me to be at all critical.
I fully accept that he is not everyone's cup of tea, but I can't think of any other Country that would seek to be as harsh on a boxer that has defended his World Title and succeeded so many times .
Then again, my rose tinted glasses are larger than the Millenium Dome !!!

Steve M · Post by **Steve M** » 30 Dec 2003, 12:16

Nelson should have tried for a fight with Toney.Toney would have a lot of problems with Nelson's style and if he won the fight and didn't choke he would have gotten tons of recognition in America.

Jacko11 · Post by **Jacko11** » 30 Dec 2003, 13:46

Stu what did you mean by Howard Eastman,he hasn't really lost has he yet,i mean i think most poeple would agree he beat Joppy.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 30 Dec 2003, 14:44

I actually think differently to you there Jacko. Most of the people I have spoken to believe the correct man won. I thought Joppy won quite clearly.

Maybe a good thread, Who won Joppy or Eastman?

Deserter · Post by **Deserter** » 31 Dec 2003, 02:06

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Kirkland Laing by contrast did absolutely fornicate all with the amazing natural talent he had, and surely must be the biggest letdown of the last few decades.

Absolutely spot on - especially when he went 'walkabout' for a year after beating the great Roberto Duran :(

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 31 Dec 2003, 13:08

Laing, Christie, Hamed and Conteh aside I've always felt let down by how Barry McGuigans career went. He should never have fought then lost to Cruz in those well documented conditions. I alway felt Barry had a few title defences in him then a big money showdown with Azumah Nelson to end his career.

Two other fighters I always thought would achieve more when they started out were Herbie Hide and Derek Angol.

Biggest let down in British boxing.

Biggest let down in British boxing.

Biggest Let Down In British Boxing