Has Arce done it?

[stujones]

With his win over Wilfredo Vasquez Junior at the weekend, it would seem that reporters are classifying him as a 3 weight world champion. Its a massive deal in Mexico to become the first four weight world champion?

Call me sceptical if this was a global superstar of Juan Manuel Marquez, Marco Antionio Barrera, Julio Cesar Chavez or Erik Morales proportions I think the journo's and reporters will be classifying them as a 4 weight world title.

After winning world honours at Light Flyweight, Flyweight, Super Flyweight and now Super Bantamweight it would appear that Arce has done it - but his WBC Flyweight title was only the interim version - but this was probably when he was at his very best and he did make several defenses of this title. Press people didn't seem to have a problem at the time calling him a Flyweight world champion - but it seems like it has now been discounted.

What do you think? Should Arce go down as the first Mexican four weight world champion?

[Jeff Thomas]

With his win over Wilfredo Vasquez Junior at the weekend, it would seem that reporters are classifying him as a 3 weight world champion. Its a massive deal in Mexico to become the first four weight world champion?

Call me sceptical if this was a global superstar of Juan Manuel Marquez, Marco Antionio Barrera, Julio Cesar Chavez or Erik Morales proportions I think the journo's and reporters will be classifying them as a 4 weight world title.

After winning world honours at Light Flyweight, Flyweight, Super Flyweight and now Super Bantamweight it would appear that Arce has done it - but his WBC Flyweight title was only the interim version - but this was probably when he was at his very best and he did make several defenses of this title. Press people didn't seem to have a problem at the time calling him a Flyweight world champion - but it seems like it has now been discounted.

What do you think? Should Arce go down as the first Mexican four weight world champion?

Jose Suliman just done one of his own countryman out of a great accolade by being a greedy bastard. He started all this super, interim champion bullshit. No I don't recognise this 4th title and nor should history.

[black panther]

No. For me you got to beat the best in your division. Vasquez was still unproven. Also, at flyweight he never faced the real WBC champ Pongsaklek Wonjongkam(can you believe this guy is STILL champion!). I still give massive props to Arce though; one of my favourite fighters to watch and to come up all the way from light fly weight to superbantam and be successful is an amazing achievement. It also puts into perspective how flabbergasting it is that Pacquiao came from lightflyweight too

[Deno1986]

Unfortunately not in my opinion. If we start counting Interim titles as "legit" we are opening up the door for countless other boxers to be multiple weight world champions. Arce is a top fighter and should be credited for what he has done and what he continues to do in the sport. It will be interesting to see who his first defense will be against. I wonder is a Vazquez Jr rematch in the making? I was just browsing through the Boxrec 122 rankings and couldn't believe there are 5 Japanese fighters in the top 10, I think two of the belts could be staying in Asia for a while.

[stujones]

Unfortunately not in my opinion. If we start counting Interim titles as "legit" we are opening up the door for countless other boxers to be multiple weight world champions. Arce is a top fighter and should be credited for what he has done and what he continues to do in the sport. It will be interesting to see who his first defense will be against. I wonder is a Vazquez Jr rematch in the making? I was just browsing through the Boxrec 122 rankings and couldn't believe there are 5 Japanese fighters in the top 10, I think two of the belts could be staying in Asia for a while.

I'm inclined to agree, although its unfortunate for Arce's case his best run probably came as the interim WBC title holder. If it was just a fleeting trip at Flyweight then I would definately agree, but he made defence after defence - paying the sanctioning fees, and now not getting the reward in terms of his legacy. Although I cannot help but think that had this been one of the more popular mexican champions - globally, then Sulliman would have already presented the fighter with some award by becoming the first four weight world champion.

On the flip side, what happens if fighters beat "the man" in the devision when sometimes only the IBO title is on the line - e.g. Pacquiao vs Hatton (can we call Pacquiao a World Light Welter champion), Naz vs Barrera etc - What about Super World champions, and non super world champions? Can Hatton ever go down as a two weight world champion - Zab Judah (or Cory Spinks) was the WBA Super Champion at the time Hatton fought for the ordinary WBA belt vs Collazo.

[Scottrf]

Not really, but wouldn't be surprised to hear him announced as such. Buffer announced Katsidis as a two time world champion.

[T.M.K]

He was never Flyweight champion...... end of story.

3-weight champ over 5 divisions.

But then again his route to a Super-Fly title was less than amazing, and should he ever really have been recognised as a Super-Fly titlist is another matter - he title shows how useful it is to have 4 version of the world strap.

Crazy fistic world

Col/T.M.K

[Deno1986]

Unfortunately not in my opinion. If we start counting Interim titles as "legit" we are opening up the door for countless other boxers to be multiple weight world champions. Arce is a top fighter and should be credited for what he has done and what he continues to do in the sport. It will be interesting to see who his first defense will be against. I wonder is a Vazquez Jr rematch in the making? I was just browsing through the Boxrec 122 rankings and couldn't believe there are 5 Japanese fighters in the top 10, I think two of the belts could be staying in Asia for a while.

I'm inclined to agree, although its unfortunate for Arce's case his best run probably came as the interim WBC title holder. If it was just a fleeting trip at Flyweight then I would definately agree, but he made defence after defence - paying the sanctioning fees, and now not getting the reward in terms of his legacy. Although I cannot help but think that had this been one of the more popular mexican champions - globally, then Sulliman would have already presented the fighter with some award by becoming the first four weight world champion.

On the flip side, what happens if fighters beat "the man" in the devision when sometimes only the IBO title is on the line - e.g. Pacquiao vs Hatton (can we call Pacquiao a World Light Welter champion), Naz vs Barrera etc - What about Super World champions, and non super world champions? Can Hatton ever go down as a two weight world champion - Zab Judah (or Cory Spinks) was the WBA Super Champion at the time Hatton fought for the ordinary WBA belt vs Collazo.

I see your point but at the end of the day I think it's all about personal preference on cases like these. Personally I wouldn't have called Pacquaio a Light Welterweight champion but there are plenty of people that would. Who's to decide what is what is the question? Promoters will obviously class their fighters like Arce as a 4 weight world champion which commentators and casual fans buy into, but hardcore fans can make up their own minds. Don't even get me started on the WBA belts.

[charlieb]

I don't think I've ever seen a dull Arce fight, so if they choose to apply the monicker, I won't hold it against them.

[Baboon]

I don't think I've ever seen a dull Arce fight, so if they choose to apply the monicker, I won't hold it against them.

I think you make a valid point regarding how exciting Arce has been (and still is). Hopefully people will remember him as such whether he has titles at 2,3,4 or 5 weights. With the amount of fragmentation of titles and interim/super champions on top of this tracking and frankly, caring, who has won titles at x many weights has long lost it's relevance (to me anyway....). Don't get me wrong Pacquiao's achievement is special but other than that we probably have upwards of ten active boxers who have won 'titles' at 3 or more weights. I couldn't even begin to list them, whereas twenty years ago it would have been a genuine achievement.

3 titles or 4, I'll be glad to remember Arce in twenty years time as an exciting fighter that I enjoyed watching.

[Autobarn]

arce was never a 4 weight champ. he never won the flyweight title. pongsaklek was (and is again) the flyweight champ. arce only held the interim title. they never fought.

arce won the vacant WBO super flyweight title, over some unknown guy, a fight that went pretty much unnoticed outside of mexico.

jorge was outclassed (darchinyan, mijares) or stopped (carbajal) in his biggest fights. credit to him for stopping vazquez in a great fight on HBO to win a piece of the super bantam title (over one of the most carefully matched champs in all over boxing).

sod history and Fvck the "4 weight" lies! - he can make some more good money because he's still a popular and exciting fighter.

[Autobarn]

With his win over Wilfredo Vasquez Junior at the weekend, it would seem that reporters are classifying him as a 3 weight world champion. Its a massive deal in Mexico to become the first four weight world champion?

Call me sceptical if this was a global superstar of Juan Manuel Marquez, Marco Antionio Barrera, Julio Cesar Chavez or Erik Morales proportions I think the journo's and reporters will be classifying them as a 4 weight world title.

After winning world honours at Light Flyweight, Flyweight, Super Flyweight and now Super Bantamweight it would appear that Arce has done it - but his WBC Flyweight title was only the interim version - but this was probably when he was at his very best and he did make several defenses of this title. Press people didn't seem to have a problem at the time calling him a Flyweight world champion - but it seems like it has now been discounted.

What do you think? Should Arce go down as the first Mexican four weight world champion?

Jose Suliman just done one of his own countryman out of a great accolade by being a greedy bastard. He started all this super, interim champion bullshit. No I don't recognise this 4th title and nor should history.

given arce's track record against excellent southpaws, he would likely not have done too well vs pongsaklek, for the WBC flyweight title held by the thai, who has shown his all-round skills and toughness in numerous different situations.

[Autobarn]

i axtually didn't even know that arce had won a super flyweight title (WBO, vs angy angkota) - until this thread. i just thought he'd won titles at jr fly and super bantam.

great that he's got a new lease of life, at a new weight, looking unexpectedly strong. i thought he would be fodder for vazquez jr. hopefully there will be a rematch, all but garanteeing another thrilling arce war.

my fave arce fights have been vs rafael concepcion, tomas rojas, michael carbajal and hussein hussein. in fights like these, he's shown something akin to what arturo gatti (in america) or joichiro tatsuyoshi (in japan) have displayed in terms of heart ferocity, etc. and like those fighters, he has been outclassed by outstanding or difficult boxers. good that a star like arce is still going strong, as he can make whatever weight class he's in more lucrative.

i'd like to see my fave current international fighter, toshiaki nishioka, vs arce.