I'm at a loss...

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 08 Jan 2004, 15:20

I tipped Danny Williams to beat Michael Sprott last time, and though nobody could have predicted the way it ended, I got the right man at least. But I'm at a loss to know who is going to win this time. Sprott was undoubtedly beating Williams in September and seemed to lose it more than Williams won it in my opinion. I asked for your advice on the Hatton-Tackie outcome, and every one of you went for Hatton to win. Great stuff. Now help me again. Tell me your predictions please. Williams or Sprott!!

REAL_DEAL · Post by **REAL_DEAL** » 08 Jan 2004, 15:22

Williams KO 3 or 4

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 08 Jan 2004, 15:39

I have to say, seeing the devastating effect that Williams' shots to the body had, and not just the low ones, I think he will catch up with Sprott eventually.

I think Williams will start faster this time around, and Sprott has always been susceptible to body shots.

This time around Danny will do it legit, much as I would like to see Sprott win last time around.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 08 Jan 2004, 15:44

I'm going for Danny, secondsout have reported that Jimmy Mac is pretty confident.

I'm not, but I think that with Jimmy back, Danny might be a little happier this time - It might be a carbon copy of Sprott vs Williams 1.

I can fully understand why so many are struggling to pick this one - I'm not at all sure anymore.

Incidently, I know Danny has been through some trainers recently, but can anyone remember what was his reasoning he gave for dumping that foreign coach (excellent pedigree, but his name escapes me) he had for his fight with Mivrovic (spelling?).

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 08 Jan 2004, 15:57

Sprott wins, points

Some people argue Willams will walk through Sprott's punches this time because he knows he can't hurt him? But Williams had 7 rounds to come to that conclusion from their first fight so why didn't he do it in the rematch? Sprott might not be a concussive hitter, but he punches with speed and accuracy and puts his shots together well. Williams was getting nailed with one-twos. Sprott's rhythm allowed him to get his punches off first whilst Williams waited.

Go back and watch the tapes of the Williams-Sprott fights. Just look at the difference in the two fighters. In the first fight Sprott was overweight, foolishly stayed on the ropes, and lacked the self-belief that he could beat Williams. Danny's power was the difference but he wasn't that impressive none the less.

Everyone had the perception that Williams, dominant domestic fighter, was ready for the European and fringe world scene. But lest we forget that he got smashed to bits by Sinan Samil Sam. Sam looked a million dollors and a huge puncher by Williams. He's neither as Juan Carlos Gomez proved by routinely outboxing him last time out.

That defeat highlighted that the gulf in class between Williams and Sprott is not as wide as we all thought. Sprott was on the crest of a wave going into the last fight whereas Williams was going through a career crisis after losing to Sam and looking awful against Bob Mirovic.

Sprott really fancied the job in the rematch, watch the tape. After blocking a Williams combo in round 2 he smiled and stuck his tonge out at Danny. Sprott was busier, outjabbing, out moving, out thinking and outlanding Williams. Sprott was winning the fight and Williams looked bereft of ideas. Then, the low blows.

The low blows changed the fight. The one in the 4th seemed the lower of the two and I think mentally Sprott was out of the fight after being knocked down then. He made the mistake of trading with Williams at the start of the 5th. BIG MISTAKE. He did that in round 7 in the first fight and came unstuck. The final low blow wasnt that bad, but Sprott stupidly dropped his hands to complain to the referee. Williams, as it was his right, took aim and closed the show.

But for Sprott dropping his hands though Williams didn't look like stopping him IMO. Sprott was moving well and maintained a high guard. Sprott's chin isn't great, but neither is Julius Francis's and he lasted 12 rounds against Danny. It can be done.

If Sprott hasnt been mentally defeated after being KO'd for a second time by Williams I think he can win this fight. I think he's the better boxer, more motivated and proved the last time that he could beat Williams providing he doesnt get careless. Williams is a fighter in turmoil, bathed in uncertainty and right for the picking.

My major concern is that because Danny can go 12 hard rounds at some point he's going to nail Sprott cleanly. However, I think Sprott can get up and weather any storm (he did get off the floor in the first fight). He'll have banked enough rounds to win on points. As long as Sprott still has the same conviction he can win, and comes in 100% I'm tipping him to pull of a big upset.

Sorry if that was a bit long winded but I fancy Sprott despite having never gone against Williams before. Danny has slipped so far back its alarming.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 08 Jan 2004, 16:04

I'm not sure myself. I mean Danny looked terrible last time out before he started landing the fouls, he was just getting his ears boxed off. However, there does appear to be a pretty big disparity in punch power, although interestingly Sprott's trainer said that before the foul occured, their plan had been not to land any power punches early on, then to unload big artillery in the latter half of the fight.

Although I'm picking Danny, I really am not too sure. Sprott looked like a pretty devastating puncher in the run up to the Williams fight, and Danny isn't exactly known for his granite whiskers.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 08 Jan 2004, 16:10

it still annoys me i missed there 2nd fight it was so controversial and every1 was talking about it and because the beeb never repeat anything i missed it.

however from what i've heard i'm gonna stick me neck out and go for a sprott pts win

for me williams is on the slide and for the taking and sprott is the man to do it. :)

adamiw · Post by **adamiw** » 08 Jan 2004, 16:28

I'm picking Sprott by late KO or points.

mrbassie · Post by **mrbassie** » 08 Jan 2004, 17:34

Williams will win again, I have no doubt whatsoever. I watched the second fight on tape last night, Sprott won the first round and Williams won all the rest. It didn't seem like that at the time, even watching it on tv the noise of the crowd made it seem like sprott was doing more than he was and besides that I wanted him to win.
If anyone disagee's then just try watching it again, Williams was landing good body shots throughout, and other than the first round Sprott landed little else than jabs.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 08 Jan 2004, 18:14

Bassie, I am beginning to wonder whether you actually like boxing, I was there at ringside, and Williams did bugger all in the first few rounds apart from get hit.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 08 Jan 2004, 18:55

hitman_hatton1 wrote:it still annoys me i missed there 2nd fight it was so controversial and every1 was talking about it and because the beeb never repeat anything i missed it.

Well, this won't happen again with Danny :)

mrbassie · Post by **mrbassie** » 08 Jan 2004, 19:08

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Bassie, I am beginning to wonder whether you actually like boxing, I was there at ringside, and Williams did bugger all in the first few rounds apart from get hit.

wonder away, it's your time to waste in whichever way you choose mate. you were at ringside months ago, I watched it with close ups last night, so who has the fresher memory? Williams landed hard body shots on Sprott in every round, Sprott landed almost nothing clean other than a few jabs and a few illegal, non-scoring punches while he held the back of the head, after the first round.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 09 Jan 2004, 05:07

mrbassie wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Bassie, I am beginning to wonder whether you actually like boxing, I was there at ringside, and Williams did bugger all in the first few rounds apart from get hit.
wonder away, it's your time to waste in whichever way you choose mate. you were at ringside months ago, I watched it with close ups last night, so who has the fresher memory? Williams landed hard body shots on Sprott in every round, Sprott landed almost nothing clean other than a few jabs and a few illegal, non-scoring punches while he held the back of the head, after the first round.

As you've demonstrated it doesn't matter how many times you watch something if you continually miss the point. I thought Sprott was busier in round 1 and easily took the round. Round 2 was closer with Williams edging it but Sprott came back with a lovely one-two uppercut straight down the pipe on the bell so it I ended up scoring it even.

Round 3 belonged to Sprott, he was boxing really well in this round. Nailing Danny with one-two's, working his jab and doing the better work. Round 4 was again mostly Sprott UNTIL the low blow incident and the resultant knockdown. You might argue that should be a 10-8 round to Williams but I decided to make it 10-9.

Williams won in the 5th as we know. But here's how I had it.

Round 1 Sprott 10-9
2 EVEN
3 Sprott 10-9
4 Williams 10-9

But for the low blows Sprott comfortably took 3 out of the opening 4 rounds for me. Whether he could have maintained this was anyone's guess. Williams wasn't "getting to him", his borderline blows were. The rematch needs a firm and competent ref. Richie Davies is my choice. He officated the first fight and did a good job.

I no longer buy that Williams' straying blows are merely "accidental". If they are he's becoming increasingly careless then. Low blows against Sprott, low blows hurt Bob Mirovic and within a minute of the restart he was stopped. And, go back and watch the Sinan Samil Sam fight. An under pressure Williams hits Sam low in round 6. Sam is given time to recover and responds by smashing Williams all over the ring to force the stoppage.

What's wrong with Williams?

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 09 Jan 2004, 05:13

I'll be rooting for Sprott due to the appalling way he was treated last time out (by the ref and Williams) but I feel his chance probably passed him by that night and such a heavy heavy knockout will have damaged him for good.

Williams KO5 Sprott....

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 09 Jan 2004, 05:44

This is Williams' fight. The old boxing adage goes that the victor of the first match wins the rematch, only quicker. Well, this is their thrid meeting and while I pick Danny to win, I feel it will be probably around six rounds.

How will Sprott deal with the metal aguish of being taken out TWICE already by Williams? That has go to affect him...

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 09 Jan 2004, 05:47

Sprott has still to complete 12 rounds for the first time (or even go beyond eight).

It's clear to me that Danny Williams is the not the opponent that Sprott should be fighting in order to reach that milestone, what with Williams being a proven 12 round fighter with a far superior dig.

Williams KO 7-10.

mrbassie · Post by **mrbassie** » 09 Jan 2004, 06:15

lightsoot wrote:
mrbassie wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Bassie, I am beginning to wonder whether you actually like boxing, I was there at ringside, and Williams did bugger all in the first few rounds apart from get hit.
wonder away, it's your time to waste in whichever way you choose mate. you were at ringside months ago, I watched it with close ups last night, so who has the fresher memory? Williams landed hard body shots on Sprott in every round, Sprott landed almost nothing clean other than a few jabs and a few illegal, non-scoring punches while he held the back of the head, after the first round.
As you've demonstrated it doesn't matter how many times you watch something if you continually miss the point. I thought Sprott was busier in round 1 and easily took the round. Round 2 was closer with Williams edging it but Sprott came back with a lovely one-two uppercut straight down the pipe on the bell so it I ended up scoring it even.

Round 3 belonged to Sprott, he was boxing really well in this round. Nailing Danny with one-two's, working his jab and doing the better work. Round 4 was again mostly Sprott UNTIL the low blow incident and the resultant knockdown. You might argue that should be a 10-8 round to Williams but I decided to make it 10-9.

Williams won in the 5th as we know. But here's how I had it.

Round 1 Sprott 10-9
2 EVEN
3 Sprott 10-9
4 Williams 10-9

But for the low blows Sprott comfortably took 3 out of the opening 4 rounds for me. Whether he could have maintained this was anyone's guess. Williams wasn't "getting to him", his borderline blows were. The rematch needs a firm and competent ref. Richie Davies is my choice. He officated the first fight and did a good job.

I no longer buy that Williams' straying blows are merely "accidental". If they are he's becoming increasingly careless then. Low blows against Sprott, low blows hurt Bob Mirovic and within a minute of the restart he was stopped. And, go back and watch the Sinan Samil Sam fight. An under pressure Williams hits Sam low in round 6. Sam is given time to recover and responds by smashing Williams all over the ring to force the stoppage.

What's wrong with Williams?

Ok, well your smug tone was just patronising enough to be irritating, so I've gone and watched it again, and I stick by what I said in the first place.
The first round is not in duspute, clearly it was Sprotts.
Round 2: Sprott was busy but almost all of his punches were taps, whereas all of Williams that landed were heavy punches, plus the fact that Williams was the one coming forward equals Williams won the round.
Round 3: Again, Sprott throws and Lands more, but Williams lands harder, more telling punches. Williams round.
Round 4: whether you want to do Sprott a favour or not with that point, Williams round.
Round 5, the ko.

You can score for Sprott trying to look busy doing nothing, mostly tip tapping, and I'll score for Williams landing fewer but more telling, effective punches. My opinion is as valid as yours and I'm entitled to mine as you are to yours.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 09 Jan 2004, 06:20

mrbassie wrote:
lightsoot wrote:
mrbassie wrote: wonder away, it's your time to waste in whichever way you choose mate. you were at ringside months ago, I watched it with close ups last night, so who has the fresher memory? Williams landed hard body shots on Sprott in every round, Sprott landed almost nothing clean other than a few jabs and a few illegal, non-scoring punches while he held the back of the head, after the first round.
As you've demonstrated it doesn't matter how many times you watch something if you continually miss the point. I thought Sprott was busier in round 1 and easily took the round. Round 2 was closer with Williams edging it but Sprott came back with a lovely one-two uppercut straight down the pipe on the bell so it I ended up scoring it even.

Round 3 belonged to Sprott, he was boxing really well in this round. Nailing Danny with one-two's, working his jab and doing the better work. Round 4 was again mostly Sprott UNTIL the low blow incident and the resultant knockdown. You might argue that should be a 10-8 round to Williams but I decided to make it 10-9.

Williams won in the 5th as we know. But here's how I had it.

Round 1 Sprott 10-9
2 EVEN
3 Sprott 10-9
4 Williams 10-9

But for the low blows Sprott comfortably took 3 out of the opening 4 rounds for me. Whether he could have maintained this was anyone's guess. Williams wasn't "getting to him", his borderline blows were. The rematch needs a firm and competent ref. Richie Davies is my choice. He officated the first fight and did a good job.

I no longer buy that Williams' straying blows are merely "accidental". If they are he's becoming increasingly careless then. Low blows against Sprott, low blows hurt Bob Mirovic and within a minute of the restart he was stopped. And, go back and watch the Sinan Samil Sam fight. An under pressure Williams hits Sam low in round 6. Sam is given time to recover and responds by smashing Williams all over the ring to force the stoppage.

What's wrong with Williams?
Ok, well your smug tone was just patronising enough to irritate me, so I've gone and watched it again, and I stick by what I said in the first place.
The first round is not in duspute, clearly it was Sprotts.
Round 2: Sprott was busy but almost all of his punches were taps, whereas all of Williams that landed were heavy punches, plus the fact that Williams was the one coming forward equals Williams won the round.
Round 3: Again, Sprott throws and Lands more, but Williams lands more , more telling punches. Williams round.
Round 4: whether you want to do Sprott a favour or not with that point, Williams round.
Round 5, the ko.

You can score for Sprott trying to look busy doing nothing, and I'll score for Williams landing effective punches. My opinion is as valid as yours and I'm entitled to mine as you are to yours.

You should be thanking me for attempting to alter your barmy judgement. Sprott throws more and lands more yet Williams lands more effectively?? Sprott's shots weren't "taps". They not have been hurting Williams but so what? I can't say I barely saw Williams land a blow of ANY substance in the opening 3 rounds.

Now, go and put the kettle on and stick the fight on again. But not before you've bobbed down to Specsavers and treated yourself to some new bins.

mrbassie · Post by **mrbassie** » 09 Jan 2004, 06:44

Patronising and unfunny? Wow, hell of a personality you've got there, I guess have that man's hand up your bottom on childrens tv for so many years affected you badly.

Most of Sprotts punches were taps, simple fact, he wasn't throwing as hard as he is able to, he was as I said trying to look busy doing nothing. You go watch it again pal.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 09 Jan 2004, 07:07

Sprott is gonna end up on Danny's mantlepiece. 8)
I really think his heart went out of it last time when he realised Williams could take his punches without folding. Even with that shocking loss to Sam, I think Danny's chin is generaly pretty sound. Too good for Sprott anyway.
Williams wins KO 6

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 09 Jan 2004, 07:09

mrbassie wrote:Patronising and unfunny? Wow, hell of a personality you've got there, I guess have that man's hand up your bottom on childrens tv for so many years affected you badly.

Most of Sprotts punches were taps, simple fact, he wasn't throwing as hard as he is able to, he was as I said trying to look busy doing nothing. You go watch it again pal.

Hey, even Matthew Corbett, Sooty, Sweep and Sue would be able to see that Sprott was doing far better than you're prepared to give him credit for so what idiot does that make you? Are you a Williams fan or just generally barmy, Mr Barmy??

Sprott was busy landing his jab and straight right hands which did land with more than enough force to register as scoring blows. He was outjabbing Williams, who normally has a good jab himself. Sprott was the effective agressor in rounds 1, 3, and 4 (until the low blows). How do you explain the blood coming from Williams' nose and the swelling underneath his eye courtesy of Sprott's "taps"??

We all know Williams carries the heavier artillery but on precious few occasions did he connect or throw with any of it. What exactly was Williams doing?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 09 Jan 2004, 07:20

MightyWarrior wrote:Sprott is gonna end up on Danny's mantlepiece. 8)
I really think his heart went out of it last time when he realised Williams could take his punches without folding. Even with that shocking loss to Sam, I think Danny's chin is generaly pretty sound. Too good for Sprott anyway.
Williams wins KO 6

Williams made Samil Sam look like Iron Mike Tyson. There was nothing to suggest Sam was a "banger" before the fight, and that's based on him fighting less than stellar opposition. Sam destroyed Williams. Every time he landed flush Williams' reaction to the blows was startling? He just couldn't take Sam's power. That really shocked me because like you I thought his chin was cast iron.

I don't think Sprott ever truly believed he was capable of stopping Williams. If he was going to win it was to be on points. Sprott's speed has improved and his combinations are crisper so he's been stopping more people but he's not a big hitter.

Sprott folded mentally when he was caught low and knocked over in the 4th. Until then he was a fighter boxing with supreme confidence. I think he was aghast at how the referee was allowing Williams to seemingly gain an unfair advantage in a fight he was struggling in. Self doubt set in and Sprott suddenly felt very isolated as if the world was against him.

His lost his confidence and composure which led to him duking it out with Williams at the start of the 5th. The final low blow was borderline, but again physchologically Sprott's immediate thoughts were "He's fornicating at it again, he's trying to deliberately knock me out of my stride. This isn't fair, I've worked hard for this. Do something ref!!".

Or something to that effect. O'Connor didn't and Sprott stupidly brought about his own downfall. But for the low blows Williams wasnt getting to Sprott. It's crucial that we have a strict referee for the rematch who's prepared to take serious action if Williams strays yet again.

If Sprott can fight with the same intensity as last time his confidence will gradually grow. His handlers must work extremely hard to restore his self-belief and urge him to maintain his discipline at all times. This fight is as much a mental battle as it is a physical one. Sprott must be strong. If he can be he has an excellent chance.

mrbassie · Post by **mrbassie** » 09 Jan 2004, 07:28

I repeat: I have my opinion and you have yours, if you can't accept someone not agreeing with you and just let it go then you have a major problem, probably several.
No I am not a Williams fan, he like yourself, is someone who causes me to veritably brim over with indifference. I was rooting for Sprott in that fight and I am rooting for him in the return, but the fact is, most of those jabs that Sprott threw missed, glanced off, or were taken on Williams gloves. Sprott landed very few hard punches, that's a fact, every punch Williams landed was hard, also a fact. Effective punching is what counts, not the numbers. I suggest again that you rewatch the fight. I also suggest that you immediately cease attempting to be amusing, for the sake of the nation and of the commonwealth, we have a reputation to uphold after all.
What you lack in wit you seem to make up for in arrogance, I merely began by stating an opinion and you have no right to attack it. Grow up.

Chambers · Post by **Chambers** » 09 Jan 2004, 07:44

On recent evidence I would say Sprotty is the better boxer, but it is going to be difficult for him to avoid Dannys power for the full 12 rounds and from the evidence of the first fight I can't see him KO'ing Danny, although I was impressed with MS's power in the build up fights do DW

Sprott needs to come in the shape of his life as he is going to need to dance for 12 rounds, it is a tough ask

My heart says Sprott, my head says Danny

Danny by late KO

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 09 Jan 2004, 07:47

mrbassie wrote:I repeat: I have my opinion and you have yours, if you can't accept someone not agreeing with you and just let it go then you have a major problem, probably several.
No I am not a Williams fan, he like yourself, is someone who causes me to veritably brim over with indifference. I was rooting for Sprott in that fight and I am rooting for him in the return, but the fact is, most of those jabs that Sprott threw missed, glanced off, or were taken on Williams gloves. Sprott landed very few hard punches, that's a fact, every punch Williams landed was hard, also a fact. Effective punching is what counts, not the numbers. I suggest again that you rewatch the fight. I also suggest that you immediately cease attempting to be amusing, for the sake of the nation and of the commonwealth, we have a reputation to uphold after all.
What you lack in wit you seem to make up for in arrogance, I stated an opinion and you have no right to attack it. Grow up.

I tolerate 99% of posters views, always. I'll never tolerate a crackpot though. Your views consistently leave me scratching my head on here, but of course your entitled to keep them coming.

"Effective punching is what counts, not the numbers." Sprott, for me, was punching effectively even though Williams was never in any trouble. I didn't see Danny landing many few blows. For every decent shot Williams landed, Sprott landed 5 in return in rounds 1, 3 and 4.

I've watched the fight several times. The only round Williams legitimately won was the second, arguably.

ps As for me growing up. Come off it, it's a forum mate. We're supposed to amuse one another and challenge each others views otherwise things get too cosy. I haven't got an axe to grind with you whatsoever, you're a good laugh.