Joe Calzaghe vs. Bernard Hopkins

[fatcookie]

I've read that a lot of people think this fight had a controversial decision. I thought Calzaghe was a clear cut winner. I scored the bout 117-113 with a few rounds that were a toss-up. What is the general consensus on this board ? interested in your opinions.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I also had Joe winning clearly, Hopkins just didn't do enough to win and he was mentally beaten for the first time since his pro debut.

[dempseyfire]

I had Calzaghe up by a point. Very close, ugly fight. A draw would've been fine. A Hopkins W isn't an awful decision but it's a little bit of a stretch IMO. But I think those who had Calzaghe whitewashing him gave way too much credit for sheer activity, plus lots of people hate Bernard for his "white boy" comments and came in with that bias.

[crusader]

I thought it was a clear win for JC; 116-111

[Seamus]

117-112 for Joe C. Hopkins was never in trouble at any time, but it was clear that Calzaghe's speed and workrate got to him. It was pretty obvious in the second half of the fight that Hopkins was getting frustrated.

[Goodnight, Irene]

It was close, it really was...but it was close the way Mosley-De La Hoya I was close --- competitive, & a share of rounds going to the loser --- yet a clear winner nonetheless. That was Calzaghe.

[Ezzard]

No doubt Calzaghe was severely rattled early on. Away from Wales. Dropped in the first and catching gefty counters early on. But he eventually asserted himself and Hopkins was looking to cathc his breath and get the ref to give him rounds.

Two great boxers. I thought it was close but clear.

[Knucklez]

I thought Hopkins' movement and footwork made joy look a bit amateurish at times but Berhard doesn't seem to realise that you can't win a fight throwing 10 punches a round. Especially when your opponent is throwing 80 a round.

[ryanst1982]

Calzaghe for me 115-112 and I for one was as happy as I had been in boxing fight since mid 90's not a fan of Hopkins and feel his comment before fight were disgusting. He got his commupence from the better man. A great fighter was Joe.

[Diamond WEAPON]

114-113 Calzaghe. Hopkins rocked Joe a fair few times but Calzaghe refused to give Hopkins any air and managed to just pull it out in the end. I was really surprised by the knockdown in the first round. Calzaghe looked genuinely hurt by the look on his face. He cleared his head pretty quickly in the midst of attacking though.

[ryanst1982]

That was one of his best attributes, never seen anyone recover from a knockedown like Joe. 4 times in fights I watched he went down, always got back up cleared his head and went onto win. Knocking him down only seemed to make him angrier and more focused

[Diamond WEAPON]

That was one of his best attributes, never seen anyone recover from a knockedown like Joe. 4 times in fights I watched he went down, always got back up cleared his head and went onto win. Knocking him down only seemed to make him angrier and more focused

Aaron Pryor had a bit of that. He wouldn't even wait for the ref to count before he continued attacking.

[Goodnight, Irene]

That was one of his best attributes, never seen anyone recover from a knockedown like Joe. 4 times in fights I watched he went down, always got back up cleared his head and went onto win. Knocking him down only seemed to make him angrier and more focused

Dont get too carried away. I dont recall him being in there with a 168lb Mike Tyson at any stage of his career. Great cardio helped his cause too, but he never had the competition on his CV to impress me that much.

[ryanst1982]

Thats exactly what Jeff lacy was sold as when he came over, a 170lbs tyson, ko'n 17 of his 21 opponents and he got annihilated. RJJ, although over hill could still bang, when he fought kessler kessler had a record of 28 ko,s from his 39 wins. So these 3 alone show Joe did fight some big hitters and survive, let alone beating Eubank, Hopkins, Veit (although not the most well known, Veits first 42 fights of career saw only 2 defeats, both to Joe), I think people saying his chin was never fully proven due to opposition are off the matk.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Not impressed, man.

"Thats exactly what he was sold as."

Thats not what he WAS though, was it? I dont see why Kessler is relevant. Hes one of Calzaghes best wins, but he never tested Calzaghes ability to recover from either a 1st-class puncher or finisher.

Good fighter, maybe a HOFer (not IMO), but far from legitimately great.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I wouldn't place his recuperative powers in the same league as an Ali or a Holyfield. And you're right that he didn't face a truly huge puncher. But I definitely think he was a HOF fighter and a legitimate great.

In regards to Lacy, I fell for the hype as far as him beating Calzaghe. I actually predicted Joe would pull out. But I was long blabbering about Jeff's power being overrated. He was like Cloud is now. The sound of the blows are greater than the actual affect.

[Ezzard]

Against Hopkins I think Joe was rattled by the KD. Away from home. Against a true great. Shipping counters...

I think he was way out of his comfort zone and lost at sea. I don't believe he was close to being stopped.

Problem for me is that other than Pac and Hop Joe's career is similar to other fighters' from the era...

[ryanst1982]

I know lacy was vastly overrated but his ko rate was still fantastic so the man could bang. I used the kessler fight because in early part of that fight he was taken to war and yet again responded ferociously and relentlessly so again showed his power it recovery even though he wasnt down. He had that aura that he just couldnt lose. Even against Hopkins, as you say, down, against a counted puncher, abroad, he still found a way, always did. Stone wall hof'er for me

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I know lacy was vastly overrated but his ko rate was still fantastic so the man could bang. I used the kessler fight because in early part of that fight he was taken to war and yet again responded ferociously and relentlessly so again showed his power it recovery even though he wasnt down. He had that aura that he just couldnt lose. Even against Hopkins, as you say, down, against a counted puncher, abroad, he still found a way, always did. Stone wall hof'er for me

I never considered Lacy to be a big puncher. But I thought he would beat Joe. The Kessler fight was an easy call for me.

[ryanst1982]

I wasnt so confident on kessler fight. Joe was getting on and here was this unbeaten, younger, hungry fighter. And start of fight only made me more worried, fair play to Joe, as usual he found a way. Can honestly say other than that one and Eubank fight, I knew Calzaghe would win every other time. Even Hopkins, I knew he wouldnt be able to stop Joe hitting. He throws to many punches, and just keeps coming, hopkuns, for me, looked like he knew he could not win from about 6th round on. He completely under estimated Joe for me

[Counter-puncher]

I wasnt so confident on kessler fight. Joe was getting on and here was this unbeaten, younger, hungry fighter. And start of fight only made me more worried, fair play to Joe, as usual he found a way. Can honestly say other than that one and Eubank fight, I knew Calzaghe would win every other time. Even Hopkins, I knew he wouldnt be able to stop Joe hitting. He throws to many punches, and just keeps coming, hopkuns, for me, looked like he knew he could not win from about 6th round on. He completely under estimated Joe for me

his athleticism, versatility and stamina, plus ability to absorb a shot, made him a difficult matchup, either physically or stylistically, for most. Both Lacy and Kessler were made for him, stylewise, I was confident in both.

Against Hopkins he had to fiddle his way through and just build points up with some pretty filthy work; I called it winning by playing the busy fool, at the time. I also predicted the early KD on the basis that Hopkins would time him with exactly that kind of counter. Hopkins was able to make Joe's life difficult because the stylistic match played more into his hands than it did for Kessler or lacy.

[alexpaterson]

I had it 115-114 Calzaghe, I felt Hopkins was in control but often let rounds slip through not working enough and allowing himself to be outworked. I felt some rounds were debatable but everytime I've scored it I've had it the same.

[ryanst1982]

I feel its very unfair to say in this fight he simply fought dirty and only won because he was so busy. Iv seen Joe in countless, countless, exciting fights where you are on edge for whole fight. How many fights has Hopkins had like that. He is a boring, awkward fighter to watch. He made this fight so ugly, not Joe as he usually does. The face Joe still found a way to win is testament to his ability. For me Joe does not get the praise he deserves

[Diamond WEAPON]

I feel its very unfair to say in this fight he simply fought dirty and only won because he was so busy. Iv seen Joe in countless, countless, exciting fights where you are on edge for whole fight. How many fights has Hopkins had like that. He is a boring, awkward fighter to watch. He made this fight so ugly, not Joe as he usually does. The face Joe still found a way to win is testament to his ability. For me Joe does not get the praise he deserves

His being busy is central to his style. He fires like crazy to give his opponent second thoughts about when and how to commit, against Hopkins especially it's what he needed to do because had he tried to explode in timed flurries more sporadically he would've been hit much more cleanly and possibly dropped more than the single time he was. Hopkins isn't a guy you play low-speed chess with.

[Crease]

I scored the fight 117-113 Joe Calzaghe.