Micky Vann and Ulli Wegner

[Old bones Ian]

German trainer Ulli Wegner has stated that Micky Vann robbed his boxer Yoan Pablo Hernandez of a 1st round win over Steve Cunningham, saying that Cunningham was given a long count. I've watched the video and can't see anything wrong with Micky's handling of the knockdown. During the minute between rounds 1 and 2 Cunninghams corner spilt water in the corner, so Micky had to ask for it to be mopped up, not alot he can do about that.

Strangley enough Yoan Pablo Hernandez should be thanking Micky after the ref stopped the fight in the 6th round due to cuts to Hernandez due to head clashes, the cuts didn't look to bad, i've seen alot of boxers continue, anyway Hernandez was awarded a points TD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsPz54qcxdY

watch from the 4.50 point of the first video, for the knockdown

and here's part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4QO4Rg1 ... re=related

[MightyWarrior]

It was a shattering knockdown, and a minor miracle that Cunningham survived it - amazingly tough. Mickey was a bit generous with the count, around 16 seconds he got, before being waved back in - but he was down for less than 10.
Ulli's just not used to not having a friendly ref in there - but worked out A OK in the end for him didn't it - a very lucky win. I was pretty sure it was the German corner who asked Vann to stop it....maybe not though.

Got to be a rematch - I like Hernandez, and you can't help but admire SS Cunningham.

[Final round]

Mickey Vann did them both a favour last night.

[crusader]

Cunningham definitely got up in under 10 seconds.

[punchers chance]

Vann did nothing wrong with the knockdown. Cunningham got up before 10 and subsequent events showed that he was Ok to continue.
I think Wegner was furious about the headbutts from Cunningham, claiming they were deliberate, but ironically they probably won his corner the decision in the end because the fight was slipping away from his fighter.

[stujones]

Subsequent events thanks to Hernandez being incredibly gunshy since the Braithwaite fight. No way was Cunnigham in any state to continue. He wasn't even looking at the ref..... Vann had to physically move him to get him to look at him and all he did was wipe down the gloves - he didn't even look like he contemplate stopping him.

Cunnigham was in as bad a state as Enzo Maccarinelli was vs Fenkel. Just Hernandez didn't capitilise... this was a man who took a few rounds to KO a one legged fighter.

[crusader]

Subsequent events thanks to Hernandez being incredibly gunshy since the Braithwaite fight. No way was Cunnigham in any state to continue. He wasn't even looking at the ref..... Vann had to physically move him to get him to look at him and all he did was wipe down the gloves - he didn't even look like he contemplate stopping him.

Cunnigham was in as bad a state as Enzo Maccarinelli was vs Fenkel. Just Hernandez didn't capitilise... this was a man who took a few rounds to KO a one legged fighter.

Was Enzo bouncing around on his toes, putting his hands up, and throwing punches back almost immediatly after getting to his feet? No, and that is probably why Frenkel was able to finish matters so swiftly. I thought Cunningham was fine to go on; he was hurt, but he knew were he was and what was happening. If he was in no state to continue he probably wouldn't have survived the first, fought well in the second, and won several rounds thereafter.

[stujones]

As out as Maccarinelli was..... he did stumble forward when the ref instructed him. Cunnigham didn't listen to any of Vann's instructions, he didn't know where he was. He was shaking in the corner between rounds.

Look back - okay Cunnigham wasn't as bad as Maccarnelli - but for my money that is still a case of two wrongs. Maccarnelli shouldn't have been allowed to continue, and neither should have Cunnigham. Micky Vann had to pull him to him to wipe his gloves down, he didn't even question if he was okay to continue - this was a guy who got up at 9 after stumbling twice. There should have been some instructions. Vann did what the Finnish ref did, and deserves criticisms a good a ref as he is.

[crusader]

While the count was being administered Cunningham put his arms up as if he was embarrassed by the knockdown, his legs were much steadier than they had been seconds earlier, and he prudently walked away in order to maximize the distance between himself and Hernandez. Vann never ordered Cunningham to walk forward and put his gloves up so they could be wiped down----he simply went straight to Cunningham and grabbed the gloves---and I don't understand why that suggests that Cunningham was no in state to continue. It would've been a different matter if Vann issued a command that Cunningham either failed to respond to or responded to inadequately, but no command was issued so Cunningham had nothing to respond to.

Obviously Cunningham was hurt by the punch, but he recovered quickly and upon rising he evinced several signs that he deserved a chance continue. I think that Vann's decision was vindicated only seconds later, because Cunningham was bouncing on his toes, putting his hands up, and punching back---a triparte reaction that a fighter would not be capable of if they were unable to continue.

[stujones]

While the count was being administered Cunningham put his arms up as if he was embarrassed by the knockdown, his legs were much steadier than they had been seconds earlier, and he prudently walked away in order to maximize the distance between himself and Hernandez. Vann never ordered Cunningham to walk forward and put his gloves up so they could be wiped down----he simply went straight to Cunningham and grabbed the gloves---and I don't understand why that suggests that Cunningham was no in state to continue. It would've been a different matter if Vann issued a command that Cunningham either failed to respond to or responded to inadequately, but no command was issued so Cunningham had nothing to respond to.

Obviously Cunningham was hurt by the punch, but he recovered quickly and upon rising he evinced several signs that he deserved a chance continue. I think that Vann's decision was vindicated only seconds later, because Cunningham was bouncing on his toes, putting his hands up, and punching back---a triparte reaction that a fighter would not be capable of if they were unable to continue.

Will agree to disagree, I don't think he was thinking of maximising the distance - I don't think he knew what he was doing.

Agree with your take that no command was issued - which is the big problem I had with this bit of officiating. He got up on 10, and this was after attempts to get up before that but he physically couldn't. It was right on the ten count also (infact I actually don't think he beats the count - you look it is 37 left seconds when he hits the ground and 26 seconds when he is up). Surely you must give some command to find out if he is okay.... Vann makes an instant decision that he is fine to box, he hardly looks at him. He is ready to wipe his gloves off to commence before he even looks at his eyes. That bad a knockdown when the fight really struggles to beat the ten count and offers looks clueless (thats my opinion) in these seconds - needs a more thorough inspection.

Nobody, except Judah, complained when Jay Nady waved off Judah vs Tszyu - even though there was still time for Judah to beat the count and immediately after he appeared fine. I think Vann should have given a Cunnigham a far closer look. Bunce was telling the viewers that its over during the count as Cunnigham did a mini Trevor Berbick impression. Vann completely surprised me that he didn't at least take a longer look at him.... and why was he given a longer count? He got up at least 9.5 - yet Vann is on 7 or 8.

Poor job IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34H2NRdDTb4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34H2NRdDTb4

[Buncey]

It was a tight count and there was a bit of confusion in the ring. Mickey could have stopped it. The dent in Cunningham's skull was a alarming. Ulli did a fantastic Mickey Duff impersonation and then Brother Nazim gained another 20 seconds by spilling as much water as possible. It is what world championship boxing is all about. Great stuff.

Adios.

[stujones]

It was a tight count and there was a bit of confusion in the ring. Mickey could have stopped it. The dent in Cunningham's skull was a alarming. Ulli did a fantastic Mickey Duff impersonation and then Brother Nazim gained another 20 seconds by spilling as much water as possible. It is what world championship boxing is all about. Great stuff.

Adios.

Yes, great bill - really enjoyed it. Enjoyed the show immensely. That fight might not be a classic of all time, but it was great drama.

Do you think Hernandez will ever psychologically get over the Braithwaite fight. Yes, he needed to learn to be a bit more cautious - as skilled as he is, he certainly progressed too quickly into world class and got taught a viscious lesson. However, in my opinion, he looks the shell of the fighter now, doesn't look like he wants to engage in any fight at all and really on skills - its brought him a world title, but hasn't really convinced in his two title fights.

He was more negative against a vulnerable opponent in the Herelius fight than he was against Cunnigham. He couldn't put a one legged fighter away.

[Buncey]

Stu,
I think Hernandez still suffers from the Braithwaite loss, well spotted. He's lost a little something.
Adios.

[Old bones Ian]

Do you think that Ola Afolabi with his german connections will get a shot?